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Post by empeg1 on Jan 6, 2013 2:50:23 GMT -5
I will add a slightly different twist.... There is nothing more precious than your relationship with your son. Pushing academics is not worth hurting that relationship. Your son is letting you know that the above is happening; he is turning, literally, away from you. my suggestion? Back off on academics. How old is your son? Would he be interested in a summer job or volunteer work. What does he love? Does he love animals, the outdoors, art, computers, sports, music. I concur with Michellea, let your son explore his own passions. To push academic enrichment only is to develop a one sided person. Colleges, in fact, recognize the above. Besides grades, etc. they want to know how the young person will contribute to the community. And, adolescence is a time of great change, in thinking, emotionally, and physically. There is nothing wrong with some down time, to just think on one's own.
I might want to apologize to my son, letting him know that you think you are taking the wrong approach with him. Tell him you want to take a step back and that you want the opportunity to know him better. Find out what he loves. And, this summer make it NOT about school. Your son is letting you know he does not want to pursue academics for the summer.
I too had a requirement that my kids, when they were younger, had some activities for the summer. My oldest was a counselor in training at Girl Scout camps. She took horseback riding lessons and then volunteered at a stable. She volunteered at the SPCA. She loved animals. My youngest, worked as an intern at the Lawrence Hall of Science and as a camp counselor at the Hall. She developed a passion for cross country running one summer. No classes for either girl. Summer was about developing other interests, friends, fun, and, yes, earning some money.
i learned the hard way about how much damage can occur when a parent pushes too hard with academics. It took a long time for me to heal my relationship with my oldest over the above matter. Then too, your son will go to college and he will develop his potential. Remember it does not have to be a name or prestige college in order to be successful, especially as an undergrad. Instead the college has to fit the student. My brother is a great example. He went to the University of California, Santa Barbara as an undergrad, not a name school. At UCSB, the biology and chemistry profs recognized a brilliant student. My brother was mentored, introduced into research. As a medical student, he also did not go to a prestige school. But, he is now an internationally known researcher who has developed to important vaccines, has had Harvard, Stanford, Hopkins, etc court him as a professor, is sought internationally as a lecturer, and is the only American ever inducted into the European Society for Infectious Disease Medicine. He is clearly successful. BTW, my brother's favorite activity during the summer was to lay on his bed for hours staring at the ceiling!!!!
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Post by hsmom on Jan 7, 2013 11:29:34 GMT -5
VP4,
I think you've gotten good advice from all those who have posted before me. However, I want to bring in another angle as a mother of another 14 year old who goes to boarding school. The last thing my son wants to do on breaks is to be away from home. He will willingly go on Community Service Trips that his school organizes as he likes doing community service and his friends and favorite teachers also go. Otherwise, he doesn't want to go to summer school or camp. He wants to be at home.
Also, I learned this fall, while deciding on a high school for my son, that he wanted a choice and not go to a school just because I thought it was a good one. Once he had a choice of three schools, he was willing to make the decision.
I, too, am giving thought to this summer and thinking about what Michellea and Empeg have said. Having a structure/schedule is so very important for my son, but I agree what he does has to come from him and not from me. Last summer, he had math tutoring, piano lessons which he asked for the summer before, and volunteering at a food pantry (which I took up with him as he was too young to do it alone).
One way we have solved my son not spending too much time alone is to invite a friend to our home for a long weekend. We are even considering inviting a friend to come along on a vacation trip this summer.
I'm also dealing with what I consider my son spending too many hours on the computer playing games and being on Facebook. In my son's case, free time on the computer is very limited at school so he wants the time when he's home as it is the way he stays in touch with his friends. However, it's a constant battle especially at the end of the break when I'm trying to get him on the same schedule as he will have when he's back at school. And, I know I am not alone. My son's friends' parents all say the same thing.
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Post by vp4 on Jan 8, 2013 16:41:23 GMT -5
michellea, I explained this exact thing to my son. Colleges want to see well rounded kids who have an interest and pursue it for a long time. He hasn’t participated in any extracurricular activities so far at school, unless the daily 1 hour sports is considered one. I asked what are you interested in now? “I don’t know.” I asked if he would like to take Photography class because he liked photography in the past. “I don’t know.” Anything related to weather as he was obsessed with it in the past. “I don’t know.” I give him space. I spent a total of less than 30 minutes talking about anything like this in the 17 days he was home for winter break. Is that not giving space? I spent time with him doing things he likes like gokarting, etc. Very expensive, by the way. But great majority of the time he spent watching youtube videos. I am listening to you guys and giving him space. What he wants is no work and all fun. Fun is youtube. You require your kids to do stuff like you said. I do too. But that never happens because one parent (I) requires while the other is completely unsupportive. I don’t want to turn this into a bashing of his mom but she takes the opposite view and he naturally gravitates towards her. I think even she realizes that he is being a jackass sometimes and yells at him to behave. I offered sending him anywhere he wants to go in the world on community service projects or research projects with Earth Watch or Putney Travel, etc since he is interested in global warming. “No.” Asked if he would like to learn some sport. “No.” What would you like to do? "I don't know." While I may be coming across as building a resume for college, that isn’t my goal. I said Algebra II because he wants to become an engineer. It would be good for him to push himself a little in Math and Science by taking AP classes in Calculus and Physics in Junior and Senior years. I wouldn’t be asking him to take 10 AP classes in High School. He wants to become an engineer. Great. So, have a lot of fun in Summer but for these 5 weeks, take Algebra II or go to Brown University to take summer exploratory classes in Engineering, or go on a community service project to Costa Rica or something where he can see and hike Volcanoes. I think that is reasonable.
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Post by michellea on Jan 8, 2013 18:44:06 GMT -5
VP4 - Yes, the situation seems to be very difficult - and it is very hard on-line to fully understand the nuances. Thus - any "advice" must be taken with a grain of salt. What does seem clear is that you care deeply about your son and you are very worried. It seems like you are also trying to head off any potential issues during summer break. I hope that somehow you are able to orchestrate some kind of help - perhaps from an independent and expert third party that will help your family come together to solve the issues. My gut is that you'll need help to get everyone on the same page or at least the same chapter. It seems that the situation is complicated with family dynamics, teenage issues, and who knows what else to spice things up. I also think your son might benefit from help from someone that can assist him in learning what it is he wants, likes, and is passionate about. Either he doesn't really know, or he feels that there is some barrier in sharing his thoughts. It will be important to understand what that barrier is and to begin to break it down. You seem quite generous and I would be all over a service project anywhere in the world!!
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Post by healthy11 on Jan 8, 2013 18:50:07 GMT -5
I realize that you and your wife don't see "eye to eye" on many things, but I can't believe she wants to see your son be a "complete couch potato" all summer, either. If your son isn't able to think of his own ideas, what if you and your wife each come up with two activities and let him know that you both agree he needs to pick one of the four? List details, like "an Earth Watch teen trip to Costa Rica from June 5- 26 to study volcanoes" or "Brown University Engineering camp from June 15- July 31 to see what the differences are between electrical, mechanical, aerospace, civil and chemical engineering fields." Maybe your wife can identify a local activity, in case your son would prefer not to travel from home, since he's away the majority of the year. Would you be able to accept that, even if your son selects an activity that your wife contributed to the list?
I am an engineer, as is my husband, and sometime this year our son will also get his engineering degree, so I can unequivocally state that I know your son doesn't NEED to take Algebra II this summer in order to become an engineer later. If he WANTED to, great, but he's making it clear that's not his desire right now. Your two other ideas seem "broader" and more in line with summer fun, where they can expanding your son's interests, as well as offer opportunities for social development.
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Post by vp4 on Jan 8, 2013 21:45:46 GMT -5
Healthy, I know he doesn't need to take Algebra2 during summer to become an engineer. I am an engineer too. My idea for that was to take Precalculus next year instead of Algebra2 and speed up just a little so that he can take AP calculus AB and BC during the last two years of high school. He can also take AP Physics one of those years. It is all about learning. If he goes to Brown or Rensselaer during summer to explore engineering specialities, he can better plan courses to take during junior or senior years. It is about using time wisely for fun and education and not sitting around. He will have plenty of time to vegetate still.
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Post by vp4 on Jan 8, 2013 21:54:11 GMT -5
Michellea, you nailed it. He needs help with figuring out what he likes (besides youtube). Sharing thoughts is a major problem because I hear mostly "I don't know." It is obvious to me that I am not his favorite person to help figure that out. Where do I find this magical person? I thought exposing him to a variety of things would help him in drawing out what he would like to do. Thus the idea of volunteering or research projects. They are very expensive to pay for but I am willing to. He would prefer that I take him to Europe and do no work at all during the summer.
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Post by dwolen on Jan 8, 2013 23:12:55 GMT -5
If I remember, your son is on the AS? If so, is this part of what motivates your wish to have him in some structured activities? Or, is there no one home during the day so that your son needs structured activities? My dd had to have more structured activities due to my work schedule. I just did not think she'd do well with nothing to do. When she had nothing to do, I still tried to be home more often, and I was still only working 70% time. I thought she had to be protected from herself and her strong interest in the opposite sex back in her high school days.
Lots of people have done nothing during their summer vacations and eventually found things they were interested in. A friend at work's daughter, a very shy girl later identified as having inattentive ADHD, spent a whole summer in her bed room, playing with her dolls and watching Anemie videos. When the ADHD was identified and treated with stimulants, , in the second year of high school, suddenly an interest and skill in math and science emerged, and the girl decided to major in engineering. She had never shownaninterest in mathnor science previously. Though I am a boring linear thinker, and cannot be compared to most, I suppose, I did lots of nothing during my summer vacations when I was in high school. One summer I took a typing class for 2 hours, 4 days a week, and the rest of the time I spent in the public swimming pool. The next summer, I took a history course and spent the rest of the time at the swimming pool, reading Nancy Drew mysteries, which were below my reading level, and comic books. I was home alone from the sixth grade onward, as my older sister had gotten married at age 19, and my mom and dad both worked and left home before I woke up. I could not call my mom at work because she was on an assembly line, and so was dad. I did not even have their phone numbers at work, and fortunately, never had an emergency.
I guess my point is, I don't think it matter much if your son has strong interests now. Many people are wonderful but they have mild interest in most things. Some people develop strong interests in something, and they are very lucky.
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Post by vp4 on Jan 8, 2013 23:50:00 GMT -5
Yup, he is an Aspie. Nobody would be home during the day as well. I don't want to leave him home alone at 15 for an entire day either. He will just vegetate and do nothing. He will have plenty of time to do that in addition to being active and learning. Last summer, We went as far as taking his best friend on vacation with us, whose company he enjoys a great deal. He gets to do what he likes but that won't happen for 3 months.
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Post by SharonF on Jan 9, 2013 7:46:06 GMT -5
This may not be the answer you want to hear, but he may be too young to develop a passion that appeals to college admission staffs and adults.
He is smart. But because of his age and maturity level, he probably still thinks more like a child than an adult. If so, he tends to live in the moment. If so, he's not able to apply his intelligence toward more "worthy" pursuits.
With his Asperger's, he may be afraid to try new things. He may want things to come easily--and he may be afraid to try something that he either doesn't like or is too difficult to master.
And parents have to walk a fine line. If our kid gets involved in an activity (guitar, soccer, theatre, piano, swimming, whatever), of course we need to be supportive. But we all know parents who overdo their support. When that happens, the kid feels trapped. They can't back out of an activity that they tried and simply do not enjoy.
Maybe he's afraid of letting you down. Maybe he's afraid that if he tries an activity that you heartily endorse, you'll become such a champion of that activity that he won't be able to step away from it.
I'm speaking a bit from experience here. I probably was too much of a champion of my son's oboe playing. I hope I'm not coming across as bragging when I say he was good. And for a few years, he was passionate about it. But in his senior year of high school, he stopped playing the oboe. He no longer found joy in it. And I was crushed.
I never expected him to be a professional musician. But it was hard to see walk away from something he had put so much time, energy (and our money) into.
Since then, his passions have ricocheted from SCUBA diving to mountain biking to hiking/camping, and now to motorcycle riding. Interestingly enough, he did pick up his oboe again his sophomore of college. He auditioned for and was accepted into the university's music program, but chose not to follow through with it.
I think the answer for your son is more time. Keep looking for ways for him to try new activities and be exposed to interesting people. But his maturity level may be such that he's simply not ready yet to find his passion(s).
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Post by beth on Jan 9, 2013 8:42:07 GMT -5
I have a 15 year old son with ADHD who doesn't do well without structure. My suggestion is to not worry about the interest part and focus on some structured activities for the summer. And I wouldn't spend a lot of money as doing so would frustrate you if he isn't appreciative.
Last summer my son took driver's ed with a friend. It was four hours a day for 3 weeks starting at noon. It was through the public school system and was free. Then he went to cross country residential camp for a week (he runs cross country).
I know it isn't always easy. We had a conversation with our son last night about going to boy scout camp. He could do high adventure--backpacking, white water rafting and the like. He said he doesn't want to go to N. Carolina which is where his troop is going! He says he likes it better out west (we went out west five years ago on a family vacation and he has wanted to return ever since).
My goal is to provide a structured activity for about half of the summer. My son wants to get a job this summer which, of course, is another option. I am just concerned that he won't, given the tight economy and that we are going on a family vacation as soon as school lets out. Then we will all have a lousy summer!
My son has taken up fishing this year which has helped a lot. I find it an interesting past time for someone who is hyperactive. However, my husband's grandfather who was the most hyper person I have ever met loved to fish so it must have some calming influence. He has several fishing friends and they fish in the lakes around us. We live in Florida and the lakes are all man made from housing construction and treated so you can't eat the fish so they release them.
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Post by vp4 on Jan 9, 2013 8:59:57 GMT -5
I don't think my son is afraid of letting me down. He hasn't done a whole of activities in his life where I ever said that I am disappointed with what he had done. I make sure he knows that I am proud of him for the 3.9 GPA. The thing is he is NOT interested in much of anything besides youtube and fast cars. Perhaps, I should let him be and wait for him to grow more. I am not trying to package him for schools. That is absolutely not my goal. But I do know that there are some good things to take from what a school expects. An interest that can grow into a passion is good. Perhaps he never will have a passion. He does not want any activity at all. He wants to spend 3 months on vacations and vegetating.
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Post by beth on Jan 9, 2013 9:50:46 GMT -5
I think in the days before electronics, kids would get bored and eventually do something. But with electronics, it is possible to be entertained constantly.
We had one summer with our older summer where he ended up doing very little but video games all summer. He had been working part time but the plant nursery business tanked with the economy and he had no job. It made the adjustment to school much harder in fall. That experience is an important reason why I have made sure my younger son has some structured activities for the summer.
How about some sort of compromise where he either can come up with an activity he likes or choose one of four that you and your wife come up with? It doesn't need to be for the whole summer--just something to do. Is she on the same page on this issue? I guess I wouldn't push the issue if she doesn't agree. The reasons is that if she doesn't agree with you on your son doing something structured this summer and your son is not enthusiastic, it will not happen anyway. So it is not worth the energy regardless of how worthy the goal is.
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Post by michellea on Jan 9, 2013 10:37:30 GMT -5
vp4 - the issue of depression was raised awhile back when you were concerned about similar issues and his social life at school. Could this be part of his lack of enthusiasm (or ability) to rally around something new? It could be a "rut" - but maybe it could be a bit of something more?
Again, these questions can't be answered on the internet, but a third party expert may be able to get to the heart of the problem and to come up with some solutions.
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Post by vp4 on Jan 9, 2013 11:46:24 GMT -5
Don't know if he is depressed. I wouldn't know because he doesn't talk much. He is very quiet unless he is with his buddies. I was like that too when I was his age. Perhaps I should talk to a family therapist who also specializes in teen issues. It is also possible that he is angry with me because of my relationship with his mom, which is beyond repair. Perhaps a therapist would help him cope with that as well. I had tried on numerous occasions to draw something out of him about his feelings and mum is the word.
beth, there is no chance that his mom would agree with anything I would propose. It is opposite day every day. So, I gave up a long time ago. I just do what I have to. She doesn't intervene, at least with me. Don't know what she says to him behind the scenes though. I no longer worry about that. Recall I said my son hears two different views on most everything. There are always conflicting messages.
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Post by michellea on Jan 11, 2013 18:46:15 GMT -5
I think some kind of therapist might be good. I know it is often hard to get buy in to talk to a therapist - but if you can find a good match he or she might be able to get under all of the issues and help to orchestrate a plan to deal with them and to move forward. I guess one logistical question might be where the therapist should be - at school or at home?
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Post by dihicks6 on Jan 12, 2013 14:23:16 GMT -5
Maybe if it's at school, your son will feel like there is some distance and may be more apt to open up?
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Post by empeg1 on Jan 12, 2013 15:58:46 GMT -5
Is your son happy at boarding school and is he ok with being away from home? Some kids are and some feel "sent away". Do you have a sense from your son?
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Post by vp4 on Jan 18, 2013 22:46:37 GMT -5
He is fine at boarding school. He is happy I am not around hovering over him (asking if he did his homework, ate his dinner, etc). He is up till 1 AM on youtube at school. I told the school last week that I want them to stop internet access by 10:30 AM. They told me they are working on it. He is doing well in school still. I hadn't said a word to him in two weeks before a phone call today. He actually answered the phone! I don't know how I will arrange for the therapist, at home or at school. I gotta be honest. While I want to find a solution to the problems, I am upset with his disrespectful attitude. I have sacrificed my happiness, all money I earn for him and he never shows even the slightest of gratitude. Granted he is 15 but he can understand what I do for him. He is a taker and not a giver in any sense of the word. Even his report card had a comment from adviser that said he doesn't show any empathy towards anyone and needs to think of others more. I had talked with him at length about things like that. Hopefully this is just a teen phase and he will grow out of it. I certainly I am no longer going to be overly generous perhaps causing him to think he is entitled.
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Post by healthy11 on Jan 18, 2013 23:24:46 GMT -5
My son also lacks empathy, is often disrespectful, and seldom shows much gratitude. While I'm disappointed, I haven't sacrificed all my happiness. You may not be able to change your son's actions, but how you respond to them is within your control. Even if you can't figure out a way to arrange therapy as a family, it could still be helpful for you to find someone to talk to on your own.
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Post by vp4 on Jan 18, 2013 23:58:11 GMT -5
What I meant to say about sacrificing happiness is, staying in an irretrievably broken marriage for a decade. Right or wrong, I felt my son needed both parents in the same home, especially while he was struggling in elementary and middle school years. I made sure he never saw any outward conflict between his parents. I do plan to correct this (being unhappy) by finally ending the marriage shortly. I don't want to really go any deeper into this aspect of my life.
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Post by dihicks6 on Jan 19, 2013 8:18:11 GMT -5
Sometimes things get better after parents separate. As much as we think our children need 2 parents that live together, it isn't always true. My former husband wasn't able to verbalize and emphasize our youngest's positive attributes (he has severe ADHD), but once we were not living together, my son was out from under the constant negativity and I have to tell you, we had great times together (he was 11 yrs. old). Not that I didn't have major issues at school with him, but he was free (for the most part) to be himself. He did build his own relationship with his Dad, but he also mentioned to me just recently that regarding his sister, himself and his father, 'some things never change.' Meaning that his perception is that his sister can do no wrong in his dad's eyes but the constant criticism for him is still there. I can't do anything about it, but he knows I support him unconditionally (even when I feel I must talk to him about how his marriage is going, LOL)! You may find things get better when the marriage isn't sucking the life out of you....
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Post by dwolen on Jan 19, 2013 17:43:09 GMT -5
I agree. Parenting any child, and especially your son, is very challenging, but if you are personally happier, you may have more energy.
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Post by vp4 on Feb 4, 2013 17:03:02 GMT -5
How do I get this kid to eat healthy snacks? I had been trying for years to limit all the unhealthy garbage like chips, cookies, oreos, etc. but it had never worked with him or his mom. Every time he comes home, I buy him fruits such as apples, bananas to take to dorm. Most of the time he "forgets" them at home. Sometimes, I visit him to take him to lunch on a weekend and then buy him fruits. Don't know if he eats them or throws them away. His mom bought him all the usual crap to store in the room in a huge plastic box. I can't obviously throw them away when I visit him. He will "dislike/hate" me even more. I had spoken with him about minimizing cookies, chips, etc but I get the usual roll of the eyes. I hadn't spoken to his mom about this recently because that never is responded in a positive fashion. I am just disgusted by my inability to get my son to see the light.
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Post by healthy11 on Feb 4, 2013 18:20:21 GMT -5
vp4, it's difficult for many young people to look "down the road" at how their health may be impacted by years of poor diet choices. The good news is that your son IS still young, so unless he's got some underlying health problems, he likely ISN'T causing irreparable damage. While you see your son enjoying junk food between meals, I assume that he's getting all the rest of his food through the boarding school cafeteria. Perhaps he's eating apples and bananas and more healthy fare during the week, and that's why he's less interested in the fruit you're bringing, because it doesn't seem like much of a treat? I'd recommend continuing to offer healthy choices, but don't despair if he doesn't accept them.
I have always offered a wide range of foods to my family, and while the majority is "fresh and healthy," I'm not adverse to also having some "packaged treats" in the house. Whenever my son would have friends over, I'd offer plates of both... What I've noticed over the years is that if kids saw others eating the fresh fruit and veggies instead of chips, then they'd "dig in" to the fruit tray, too. Now, there are times when my son will have friends over, and when I inquire if they'd like anything, they will actually ASK me if I've got apple slices, or berries, or other fruit, because they claim their own families don't have much produce in their own homes.
Realize that food preferences will change over time, too. This past semester my son (he's now a college senior) made intentional changes to lower the amount of "empty calorie junk food" that he eats, and he's also dramatically reduced the amount of meat and dairy that he consumes. He says that one of his professors (it was a philosophy class) would hold discussions about how people in "developed countries" may be wealthier, money-wise, than people in other places, but they aren't necessarily healthier or wiser about nutrition....The professor was vegetarian, and apparently has made a very strong impression on my son. When he comes home from college, he's now happy to "stock up" on fruit and veggies (we have better produce markets around our home, than he has in the college town) and so I would encourage you not to feel that your son will never "see the light." It'll just take more time...
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Post by beth on Feb 4, 2013 18:31:10 GMT -5
My sister in law is very healthy oriented and I see that it makes her kids binge when they have access to junk food. We have always taken a more middle road of eating very healthy foods but not really restricting other foods.
Interestingly enough my youngest has become very health oriented and won't even eat ice cream these days. It came from nutrition counseling as part of the cross country running program.
I can tell you that if we had told him not to eat ice cream it would have been World War III.
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Post by michellea on Feb 4, 2013 18:51:46 GMT -5
vp4 - I agree that "we are what we eat" and understand your concern. That said, should you say anything right now? I think that ultimately it is your call. I would prioritize your battles and take in consideration how the advice/ feedback will play out in your relationship building. Consider whether this is something that should be addressed now or is it something that could wait? What is the risk either way?
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Post by vp4 on Feb 4, 2013 19:26:54 GMT -5
I don't know how much harm is being done other than the fact that my son's waist is larger than mine. His Cholesterol is higher than mine. It is about building good habits for the long term. I can wait to see him fall on his face and hopefully learn from it and realize that he needs to change. Or his parents (I) could point him in the right direction. I am fed up with having to worry about what he thinks of my parenting skills to get him to do the right thing. It seems I have to live in fear of damaging relationship with him. That is annoying as hell to say the least. I am more and more inclined to say the hell with it and lay down the law. I pay, I rule. Simple. But I will do that after getting a therapist involved and try that route first. Since when do parents like me who do everything in their lives for the good of the teen has to worry about "damaging" relationship? I hope he will grow up some day and realize why I had been saying what I had been saying. That would be good, not for my ego, but for his kids.
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Post by healthy11 on Feb 4, 2013 19:49:45 GMT -5
Teens often listen better to outsiders than their parents. What about asking the doctor to discuss high weight/cholesterol, and how to make healthier lifestyle choices (the importance of diet and exercise) with your son?
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Post by michellea on Feb 4, 2013 20:20:20 GMT -5
It sounds like you have considered whether or not the issue needs to be addressed and because of his health issues, you would like to address it now. It also sounds like I pissed you off by bringing up the relationship thing. I apologize for that.
It would be much easier to parent if we could simply tell our children what to do and they would do it, show respect and learn from our experience. But, I don't think this happens very often.
I hope you are able to help him with his eating habits, exercise and general well being. It is clear that you care very much, and I hope that he will recognize and acknowledge your wisdom, love and concern.
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