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Post by vp4 on Oct 4, 2012 14:54:50 GMT -5
This week I got to meet with my son’s teachers for the first time. The same day I attended a presentation by Leonard Sax who wrote that Boys Adrift book. I have doubts about this school after meeting with the teachers. The Reading teacher is teaching them SAT Vocabulary for the last 5 weeks. Ha? I don’t know if SAT Vocabulary is critical for freshmen at the beginning of the freshman year. Moreover she says that she was a writing teacher and was brought in because reading teacher was out on leave or something. Nice lady but I am concerned if my son would get the education he needs at least in the Reading class. I paying a lot of money and wondering if it is a worthwhile investment. I have to wait to see how it goes over the next few months. I am open to a switch in school for next year though. One thing all teachers say is that my son is an active participant in classes and raises his hand, etc. That was never the case in middle school. If true, I am pleased. He is keeping up the 4.00 GPA.
One thing that still worries me about this kid is the addiction to all things Apple and Youtube. I fondly call his apple stuff idiotPod, idiotPad and idiotBook. He spends every spare moment on them or on youtube watching videos. Dr. Sax spoke about how girls have taken over the world now and boys are “adrift” and unmotivated. I am fine with girls taking over the world as long as none of them turn into any teacher, professional I met at public schools. If they do, I would find a way to Mars. ;D Dr. Sax talked about boys being unmotivated because of their addiction to video games, etc. It is so true in my son’s case, except for video games. I had spoken with him about being motivated to excel. He is a minimalist in the sense that he will do the least minimum required to get what he is trying to get and nothing more. He will not spend a second more on it, except for Youtube of course. I had tried everything possible to wean him off it. I tried cajoling, yelling and threatening but nothing worked, possibly because he gets conflicting messages from his parents. One is a disciplinarian and another is easy going. I am not sure what more I can do, other than taking away all idiot stuff. He will hate me more if I did that. Since he is at boarding school now, there is nobody to tell him to stop with the youtube. I get updates from youtube on what he does. If he subscribes to another channel, I get an update. If he tags a video as favorite I get an update. He has a gap of 90 minutes between end of classes and start of Tennis at school. He goes to his dorm and seems to promptly get on youtube. He does the same after study hall is over at night. How do I find a balance for him between school work and relaxing on his apple stuff? I don’t know what to do with this kid.
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 4, 2012 16:14:51 GMT -5
Chances are your son isn't the only boy at the school who spends his free time with electronics/on the computer. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but being away from home may actually make spending time online more "attractive" because he probably doesn't have household chores to do, or access to other areas besides his dorm. If the school doesn't allow students to wander around or go into rooms without supervision, and he's not the kind of kid who likes to curl up with a book, then what else would you like to see him do? (My son spent a lot of his early teens on the computer/playing video games, too, but every so often he'd retreat to our basement workshop and build various electronic accessories, like a stereo speaker.) My suggestion would be to talk to the boarding school "resident advisor" to find out what their policies are, but unless they have a restriction as to the amount of time the kids can spend online, I think you're going to have a hard time changing his habits at this point in time. (For what it's worth, once my son got his driver's license, he spent less time video gaming, but more time online figuring out how to modify cars, and more time in our garage actually tinkering with vehicles. Your son is still too young to have those interests...)
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Post by jisp on Oct 4, 2012 18:31:41 GMT -5
Well first I don't know if the addiction to all things Apple is limited to Boys. My daughter's phone is practically glued to her hand. There is a great Portlandia skit where Carrie's iPhone breaks and it is like a part of her has broken. That is exactly the way it is for our daughter.
Your son likes watching videos, right? What sort of videos does he watch? Does he like animation? Does he like music videos? How can you tap into what he is interested in to feed his motivation? Maybe he would be interested in a career as an animator or film maker. Have you ever thought about getting him an inexpensive camera for him to make his own videos with?
I don't know about rules at boarding schools but it seems to me that you should be able to ask the residential advisor or staff what their policy is on limiting screen time. I am sure your son is not the only child who has trouble regulating the time he spends online. One thing we did with our youngest son, which was very helpful, was that we had him keep a log book of all the time he spent playing World of Warcraft. This helped our son see that he was spending wasting a lot of time on this one activity....in fact he was shocked when we had him calculate how much of his waking hours he was playing the game. After that he asked his father to take the game off his computer and ever since then he has not had trouble regulating his screen time.
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Post by beth on Oct 5, 2012 6:46:54 GMT -5
You say he spends 90 minutes between classes and tennis on u-tube and then goes back on after study hall at night. How much time does he spend then?
Lots of kids veg out after school. My 15 year old son has cross country after school and then ices his legs and watches very pointless TV. I don't know if what your son is doing is much different. I would only be concerned if he was doing it for so long after study hall that he isn't getting adequate rest. I would think that a boarding school would have bedtime so that wouldn't be an issue. For him, going on u-tube is a reward for going to class, tennis, and studying. I would just sigh and let it go unless it is keeping him from sleeping or he is doing it to the exclusion of socializing. With my kids u-tube seems to be pretty social. They are always showing each other the latest find.
Has he made friends? That frankly would my bigger concern.
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Post by vp4 on Oct 5, 2012 8:02:47 GMT -5
He probably spends 2 hours a day on weekdays on youtube. That is excessive. And he comes home on weekends and he does nothing but spend time on youtube. He likes to watch videos of cars, aircraft, etc. Same videos over and over and over. I have to intervene to get him off youtube. He hasn't made any close friends yet at school. He is a shy kid. The dorm parent says he and his roommate seem to be getting close. What do I expect him to do? I expect him to get off his ass and do things. On a weekend, go for a bike ride, help me with cutting the lawn, read a magazine, go to a football game or baseball game, go play with his cousins who live near by. Despite all the complaints I have, he never gets mixed up with the wrong crowd, never gets in any trouble and never does anything bad. That I am very happy about.
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 5, 2012 8:11:00 GMT -5
In one of your other posts, you mentioned that your son has expressed some interest in aeronautical engineering...maybe it was sparked by playing some aircraft battle or landing games, or watching fighter pilot footage on u-tube, etc. To be honest, realize how the internet has expanded kids' views of all the opportunities that exist in the world...few would've even thought of careers like aeronautical engineering in the past, unless they had a parent already in the field. Another thing to keep in mind is that virtually all engineers I know spend more time using computers than non-techies. (Recall, I'm also an engineer, as is my husband, and that's what our son is studying.)
At this point in his life (age 14?) it seems like your son's behaviors are not out of line with his peers, so try to take a deep breath and see how the year goes....
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Post by michellea on Oct 5, 2012 8:15:00 GMT -5
My son spends about an hour a day on fb and youtube - usually after x-c and before homework. I think this is how he regroups. In many ways I prefer this over my daughter's constant (and I mean constant) texting. At least it is contained, and when he does get down to work he is not distracted. My son is somewhat of an introvert - not anti social, just someone that needs down and alone time. While I would prefer he'd read a book with this down time, I think he uses technology to unwind just as we used tv a generation ago.
We have to limit weekend time - DS likes to play x-box late at night with his friends (online), and if we do not pay attention could stay glued to it for hours at a time to the wee hours in the morning. I think some of this is "social" since this is when he connects w the kids from his private MS. Some of it is mindless, and some of it seems to be a "boy" thing.
I agree that it is important to insure that he gets exercise, socializes and is productive. If technology is creating a barrier to these things, perhaps you can agree on certain limits and certain goals. We limit x-box to two hours a day on weekends, and fortunately, my guy loves to bike work in the yard and other physical activity. He also has scheduled activities with sports, church and scouts so if he does not have a planned get together with friends, I know he is out with peers. Two hours seems like a lot - but if you consider some kids gluing themselves to the TV watching movies or sports, it really is less than "traditional" screen time.
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Post by vp4 on Oct 5, 2012 8:40:40 GMT -5
Physical activity is one thing I had been harping on for years. He is growing and in some wrong places too. There is nothing we can set limits on because I and him mom never can agree on it and she lets him do what he wants. So, naturally he gravitates towards her. I had taken the idiotPod away sometimes and he won't talk to me for days. Sigh... I am just glad he is the only kid I got and don't have to deal with more of this.
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 5, 2012 9:26:12 GMT -5
I still don't think 2 hrs./day is extreme, especially since it sounds like your son participates in tennis and other physical activities when he's at school. Since your son is away 5 days/week, versus just spending weekends with you or his mother, then it seems like for now, the emphasis has to be on what limits the boarding school has as far as "online time." ( Have you read my recent post about Dr. Renzulli's approach to learning? millermom.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Education&action=display&thread=13118 Since your son has shown interest in aeronautical things, what about planning a day visiting a nearby airport? Some offer free airplane rides for kids, or even "junior cadet" programs with flight instruction, etc. I don't know your area, but here's a link to a program that's near me: www.woodfieldcap.org/AE.shtml )
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Post by vp4 on Oct 5, 2012 9:38:43 GMT -5
healthy, that aeronautical thing is interesting. I will look into this. He had no shortage of flying due to vacations. I had also taken him to multiple Air shows on the East Coast where he gets to watch to Blue Angels, etc. He has had opportunities to get up close to many of the fighter jets as well. He enjoys that stuff, records the shows on his camera and uploads to youtube, etc. We have plans to do this more next year, possibly traveling all over the country when our schedules permit. I had taken him to the Aerospace museum in Chantilly, VA where he was able to get close to the space shuttle, and various bombers. One odd thing about that trip is they have the Enola Gay on display and I had explained to him that this was the aircraft that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and his reaction was to say "meh" and walk away. He has no interest in history!
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Post by beth on Oct 5, 2012 9:59:34 GMT -5
Personally, I would let the two hours at school go. It may not be what you prefer but doesn't seem excessive, given he going to school, getting exercise, and studying.
I agree that spending the entire weekend on u-tube is not necessarily a good idea.
Can you negotiate with him that he will do one other activity a day---go somewhere with you, or over to his cousins, for example. I would think about scheduling one activity a day so he does something else--go, as healthy suggests, to something related to his interests with him. Or make plans with his cousins. I doubt you will get him bike riding by himself (my 15 yr old son will not) or doing yard work unless that is the way you have brought him up.
Then I would simply ignore the fact that he spends too much time doing activities that you do not like. Constant harping on this is likely to damage your relationship and that probably matters more than exactly how he spends his time. If both parents were on board, you could limit things more (we said no more than 2 hours a day on weekends for video games for example with our son was that age). But it isn't worth fighting with everyone over this.
In other words, I would try a carrot approach. Plan some activities he might like and insist that electronics not be part of them. Then let him use his electronics without comment the rest of the time. I would explicitly negotiate that with him.
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 5, 2012 10:00:06 GMT -5
Frankly, history was my least favorite subject in school, too. In any case, flying in a commercial plane is a lot different than a small plane, or piloting an aircraft oneself. Perhaps, if you want your son to engage in more physical activities, you could find someone who is a pilot already to serve as a mentor (ie, in the military, like an air national guardsman) and if they talked about how much training they do, it might have an impact. (Of course, it could also just reinforce to your son that he DOESN'T want to be a pilot, but might stick with being a design engineer, however even that is useful information.)
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Post by hsmom on Oct 5, 2012 11:47:42 GMT -5
I understand your son has just started attending his school and making friends is difficult. And, for a number of reasons, I'm sure he wants to come home on weekends. We don't live near enough for my son to do so. And, over the years, it was participating in weekend community service activities that he found his passion for service work and a groups of friends to work with. At first, I think he joined in because he liked the teacher who was organizing these activities, but now he has become one of the students helping to lead the effort. Do you know how weekends are structured at your son's school? And, would he be amenable to spending a weekend at school? It might be time where he meets other students not in his classes and finds an activity he enjoys.
I wonder what the popular free time activities are at your son's school? I know that at my son's school the skate park, the bicycle jumps, and the bicycle trails are very popular and having his own bicycle at school was important to getting my son outside and active.
We also learned that the best way to get our son to do something at school is to ask his adviser and others to talk to him. He would always say "no" to us, but with his teachers and others, he isn't as negative. They got him to try skiing (which he now enjoys) and to join the soccer team.
I also find that it's really hard to limit the time my son spends playing games and being on Facebook when he is at home, especially since he connects with his friends via the computer. And, giving structure to his vacation time is something I give a lot of thought to.
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Post by vp4 on Oct 8, 2012 15:20:31 GMT -5
I am hoping the school has more constructive weekend activities than "To the mall". Last weekend he went to Walmart with his schoolmates. I had been to that school on weekends. I had seen students going for a jog, a walk and playing tennis. He is in the room on youtube. I will ask the dorm parent to help out here. He will be participating in community service activities, etc. This weekend, he spent about 15 hours I would say on youtube. I spoke to him a little about what is expected in high school going forward and how it is very important to be focused on school work and extra effort. All I got was roll of the eyes. This kid does not understand anything about what he needs to do.
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 8, 2012 16:02:48 GMT -5
vp4, very few Freshmen, or even Sophomores, understand.... I don't know when your son turns 16, or even if you would allow him to obtain a driver's license then, but once he's old enough to get a job, I think he should, and then he may begin to view his future differently. My son found part-time employment at a local movie theater when he was in high school. While it was fun, at first, to get "perks" like being able to see first-run films for free, (yes, watching more video stuff!) my son admitted that working there showed him how he'd better get a college degree, because he didn't want to be in that kind of job for the rest of his life. (No matter how many times my husband or I might have told our son, it was the actual experience of being in a minimum-wage job that really made an impact on him.)
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Post by vp4 on Oct 8, 2012 21:15:02 GMT -5
I hope he understands soon. I don't plan on leaving him financially secure when I am done. He needs to succeed with hard work like I had done. Perhaps I am expecting too much out of an aspie. I see many kids his age and a bit older spending their time wisely, reading, physically active, etc. forget car. My parents did not buy me one. He needs to learn about hard work and value of money. I am a worrier. Hoping for the best.
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 8, 2012 22:27:58 GMT -5
vp4, our son is not like my husband or me, either, nor are times the same as when we grew up. I remember when my parents bought their first car; I was 5 years old. We owned one black & white TV. There were no computers or electronic games. My husband and I were very good students who worked part-time while in high school (I didn't know him at the time) but we both lived in metropolitan areas where everyone knew everyone else on the block, kids could bike or walk safely to get from place to place, and we didn't need cars to get to our jobs.
None of this is the environment our son lives in. Kids who don't have familiarity with computers are at a disadvantage. I realize you'd like your son to spend less time with electronics and more time doing other things now, but it doesn't mean the situation will always be this way. In our son's case, being allowed to use our car to drive to his minimum wage job was one of the best learning experiences for him, and it helped him better appreciate the value of money as well. He never overspends his credit cards. He's not concerned as much about his GPA as my husband and I were, but he's held an internship for the past 2 summers at a Fortune 150 company, and they've invited him to return again next year. While our son isn't "independent" yet, and he still isn't as mature as his girlfriend or we would like, he's definitely more responsible than he was in his early teens. I'm hoping he will continue to improve, as his brain's prefrontal cortex reaches maturity. Studies show that's typically in a person's mid-20's.
Don't give up on your son, either.
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Post by beth on Oct 10, 2012 8:39:00 GMT -5
I was talking to an old college friend the other day. Her youngest is 20 years old and has been diagnosed with both LD and ADHD. He started out in engineering, went to psychology, took a year off, and now is back in engineering. The year off was dedicated to making money off posting various things on U-tube. I don't totally understand it but I know you can make money this way by number of hits. He has 3,000 followers and wants to get to 5,000.
Anyway, after a year he decided to go back to school and do this business on the side. The year also made him want to try engineering again.
A guy in my son's dorm made $50,000 off of some U-tube video.
So what may appear as a waste of time could actually be a way to earn a living someday.
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Post by michellea on Oct 10, 2012 10:46:24 GMT -5
Beth - I was talking to a mom at a graduation party and her son does some kind of gaming reveiw on utube and makes in excess of $40K /year. He was telling me how he has his followers that gives him hits on his utube videos and in turn advertisers will place their ads on his stuff. Somehow the money gets funneled to him. Anyway, the kid has saved enough for 2 full years of tuition, room and board. He said he wasn't sure if he could keep the business going since it is time intensive and the work is directly tied to the debut of big video games which will coincide with finals.
He said that he has developed skills in video production, gaming and that a lot of what he "sells" is his analysis of the games and his "personal connections" to his users. He never uses his image/pic in the videos and only his voice. He says much of the attraction is that his followers have to imagine who he is.
This is a guy that is an "average" student within a fairly rigorous HS, that has some drive and business skills! I thought it was fascinating!
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Post by glopop11 on Oct 10, 2012 17:08:00 GMT -5
My D turned the corner and really matured at age 17, during her Jr. year of high school. She suddenly became serious about her education and her future, but she still has a long way to go. She still has her cell phone glued to her hand and is constantly texting. As others have said, early to mid-twenties before they really mature and understand.
You say your son watches the same videos over and over. I wonder what is going on in his mind. He may be "excercising" his imagination, coming up with big ideas and plans that maybe someday he will put into action. Perhaps he is unable to articulate those thoughts to you or anyone else.
My D was never who I thought she would be. I assumed she would be an avid reader like both her parents, I assumed she would be athletic like I once was. Turned out she was herself, nothing like either of her parents and I had to learn to appreciate her for who she really was, not what I wanted her or expected her to be.
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Post by kewpie on Oct 16, 2012 8:14:30 GMT -5
>You say your son watches the same videos over and over.< That sounds pretty normal for an Aspie. 2 hours per day is not excessive. This is his current obsession and things could be waaaaay worse. I wish that was all the time my kids spent on video games. My Aspie is spending way too much time on line chatting with friends (I know this is ironic considering he is ASD) while doing homework and playing video games. I am trying to get him to find a christmas job to get him out in the work world so he will stop coming home and napping after school and then staying up way too late being on line. He still doesn't truly realize that he needs to be more serious about college. His grades have been OK but they could be better! Since your son is already at a 4.0..I would not worry too much!!
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Post by vp4 on Oct 18, 2012 15:31:22 GMT -5
I am going to wait and watch and hope that he will outgrow this obsession and mature a little. God knows, I had spoken to him dozens of times about how critical high school is for his future.
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 18, 2012 17:00:02 GMT -5
I used to think the same way as you, but once your child gets past high school, you'll realize it's not all that critical. I've said it before, but I'll say it again, that unless you insist on an "Ivy League" school, mediocre performance in high school doesn't prevent him from having a great future. I'm quite sure that your son will get accepted at some colleges, and once he figures out what he wants to do as a career, even if it is something with videos, he'll probably do fine at it. One of the reasons I'm saying this is because we were helping our son prepare a resume that he can use when he starts job interviewing as a college senior. He has had engineering internships over the past few summers. By the time we elaborated on the kinds of work he's done, we decided not to even list which high school he attended, and we eliminated clubs and activities he was involved with in college, so everything fits on one page. It made me realize, high school is "a thing of the past," with the exception of the friends he still keeps in touch with.
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Post by mykids on Oct 18, 2012 20:58:47 GMT -5
my son sounds a lot like yours, minus the 4.00 GPA. I can only dream of that right now. He can be on the computer for what seems like hours if we let him. It does concern me some, more so my husband. But I am trying to look at the positive and as soon as he is able I want him to take a class to learn all he can about the workings of computers so that he will be able to fix or at least somewhat understand and trouble shoot basic computer problems. I also want him to learn how to build a computer. He seems to be on board with this idea. Even if he does not get a job working specifically with computers later or goes to school for something in the computer field, it will be beneficial. We use computers with most jobs these days. Even if you have Tech support to contact it is always good to be familiar with what they are talking about.
I have found the best way to cut down on the computer time is to keep them busy. Find activities you both like to do that you can do together, especially on the weekends. Just telling my son, find something to do does not work. It's kinda like saying clean your room. You have to be more specific than that, otherwise it does not get done because for my son he does not know where to start/what to do.
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Post by vp4 on Oct 19, 2012 9:59:45 GMT -5
healthy, I won't insist on Ivy. I don't think he is strong enough academically and motivated enough to go near Ivy. He may surprise me if he progresses, which he is doing more than I expected. I never expected him to be active participant in class, ask questions, etc. I told the school that one of the skills I hope he cultivates is self advocacy. So far he seems to be doing OK. I am sure he will go to some college and I am going to help him get into one of the better ones. He spoke of Aerospace Engineering as an interest. He spoke of Medicine a year ago. That will be hard. I will wait and see how he develops over the next year.
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Post by jisp on Oct 20, 2012 8:57:01 GMT -5
vp4, One of the myths we have as a culture is that 18 is some magic age. In my experience with my kids the amount of development and maturing that occurs between 17 and 23 compares to the development that we see in younger kids. And brain science confirms this. Don't be afraid to give your son time and space to mature. Your son at 18 might be very smart and capable but he might not have the maturity to handle the complexities of college life. Increasingly parents are seeing the wisdom of a gap year given how expensive college is these days.
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Post by vp4 on Nov 12, 2012 16:53:30 GMT -5
jisp, I am trying to give him time and space. He is getting worse every time I see him. More lazy, disinterested in anything but youtube, more defiant and more disrespectful. I am getting p'ed beyond words. He does not even want to listen to me explain in very polite terms what he should spend more time on. Perhaps I am expecting too much of an Aspie. But I don't want to use that excuse. He will be home for 10 days during Thanksgiving recess. He will spend exactly 0 minutes on doing anything but youtube and video games. I was trying to talk to him yesterday about summer plans and what he can do to further his interests and start thinking of classes to take next year, etc. He would have none of it. He would rather play with his smartphone than talk to me. Ugh....
BTW, yesterday I drove 160 miles back and forth from home to his dorm, to just take him to lunch. I was talking to him on and off during lunch and all he would say is Yes or No to my questions. He spent the whole ride to and from his dorm with his face buried in his phone.
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Post by healthy11 on Nov 12, 2012 17:33:51 GMT -5
I understand how frustrated you must feel. Personally, I don't think it would've been unreasonable to request that your son put his phone aside while you were visiting, especially since it sounds like you were only there for a couple of hours. If there was truly something "critical" that he needed to speak with a fellow student about, then he could've answered a call, but constant texting or game-playing is different and just rude when adults are around. Did he know you were coming? I wonder if, next time, you might say something like, "I'd like to see you, and am willing to take you out for lunch at your favorite restaurant, if you're willing to keep your cell phone in your pocket while we're eating. You can see it any time, but I'm not around as often. Do we have a deal?" If he doesn't agree, perhaps it would be best to see him another time. (What did the dorm monitor say, regarding if they monitor the time students spend online, using electronics, etc.?)
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Post by jisp on Nov 12, 2012 17:44:22 GMT -5
vp4, could you son be depressed? What do his teachers at boarding school say about him? Is he making friends? Engaged in his classes?
Depression among Asperger teens is quite common. And it often gets overlooked because parents assume that their child is just not being social due to Aspergers. If your son is a different kid among his peers and teachers than that is one thing. But if they are seeing many of the same things you are seeing you might want to consider having your son be evaluated to see if he is also suffering from a mental health issue.
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Post by michellea on Nov 12, 2012 18:15:47 GMT -5
Hi vp4, This must be very difficult to see your son disengaged to the wonderful opportunity you have given him via his private school. I am wondering if there is something behind the behavior that may go beyond typical teen or aspie behavior too? I think that it would be worthwhile to speak to his teachers and find out how he is doing socially and if they are concerned.
Please keep us posted. I hope that Thanksgiving break goes well and that you are able to help him move past this.
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