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Post by ohmama on Dec 3, 2004 23:29:54 GMT -5
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Post by catatonic on Dec 4, 2004 0:09:54 GMT -5
Don't forget my favorite source of magnesium facts and research findings: www.mgwater.comSpend an hour there and you'll be heading for the health food store to get yourself some magnesium! You might also want to read the book "The Magnesium Factor" by Seelig and Rosanoff. (I'm sure that admitting I've read an entire book on magnesium makes me seem like a total geek, but it really is an interesting book!)
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Post by Mayleng on Dec 4, 2004 10:14:01 GMT -5
Catatonic, we love that you are a total geek. At least you can safe US the trouble of reading the entire book and we can pick your brains ;D
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Post by ohmama on Dec 17, 2004 10:36:00 GMT -5
Cat, Since magnesium is water soluble it can go through you fast. What do you think about this slow release magnesium? Is this a good thing to get? www.slowmag.com/
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Post by catatonic on Dec 18, 2004 8:02:23 GMT -5
Interesting question. Magnesium is absorbed primarily in the small intestine, and it's not a particularly effecient process even under ideal circumstances. Perhaps half the magnesium you take may be absorbed...a smaller percentage if your dose is high. Good idea to split your dose into a.m. and p.m. if you want to make sure more is utilized by your body. There's a rather interesting article on forms of magnesium, absorption rates, and bioavailability. The author's conclusion is that if a compound high in bioavailability is chosen, you can actually absorb as much as if you were receiving IV magnesium sulfate! www.geriatrictimes.com/g020208.htmlOne study that I know of specifically compared absorption from magnesium acetate to enteric coated magnesium chloride, and concluded that the enteric coating impaired magnesium absorption. "Magnesium absorption from eneric coated Mg Chloride (Slow-Mag) on average was 67% less than from MgAc in gelatin capsules. Since it is not likely that chloride and acetate influenced magnesium absorption directly, our results suggest that the enteric coating on Slow-Mag tablets reduced Mg bioavailability." Journal of Clinical Investigation August 1991Based on that research, it seems like Slow-Mag would not be a good idea. You'll absorb the magnesium better from an uncoated magnesium chloride tablet, as well as from magnesium citrate. Both are highly bioavailable. Magnesium chloride has about the best bioavailability out there, but it is not a particularly concentrated compound...a 500mg tablet contains only 62mg elemental magnesium. It works, though. It's the only type of magnesium we've tried that adequately addressed my son's magnesium deficiency. Other forms have been moderately successful in maintaining magnesium status, but we struggled with his deficiency for well over a year before finally seeing real results with magnesium chloride. You can read the full text of the study here: www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=295344&action=stream&blobtype=pdfIt's also worth keeping in mind that a number of things reduce magnesium absorption even further. Chief among them is calcium, which competes with magnesium for absorption (and wins). If you're dealing with magnesium deficiency, you probably do not want to use a calcium/magnesium formulation, since this will lower the amount of magnesium utilized. Also...clinical studies have found that eating almonds and/or cashews on a daily basis is just as effective as oral supplementation in providing additional magnesium.
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Post by Mayleng on Dec 18, 2004 8:56:43 GMT -5
Cat, as you know my son uses the Now Cal/Mag citrate. Are you saying that the Calcium actually hinders the absorption of the Magnesium? I thought that it was supposed to help the absorption of the magnesium.
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Post by catatonic on Dec 19, 2004 7:53:08 GMT -5
Calcium and magnesium compete for absorption through the same channels. Calcium is slightly smaller and gets taken up more quickly. That leaves the magnesium to be wasted in your urine. If you need additional calcium -- for example you're dairy-free -- then take calcium as a separate supplement at a different time of day. There are some cal/mag formulations that claim to contain a buffered form of calcium that won't interfere with magnesium absorption, but I haven't done any research on them to see if I believe those claims.
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Post by Mayleng on Dec 19, 2004 9:39:26 GMT -5
So what I have for my son is pretty useless then in terms of magnesium absoption. Rats!
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Post by catatonic on Dec 20, 2004 10:01:15 GMT -5
Well, it's probably not useless. It's just that he's not getting the maximum benefit from the magnesium. If he doesn't have a magnesium deficiency, then it probably isn't a big deal. If he does have a deficiency, then you want to give the magnesium separate from the calcium until the deficiency is corrected, and then you can go back to the cal/mag. Have you done the Cvostek test on him at home to see if it's likely he has a magnesium deficiency? Or blood work?
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Post by Mayleng on Dec 20, 2004 11:58:49 GMT -5
Yes, I did the test and he is not deficient. No we didn't do any blood work.
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Post by G on Dec 20, 2004 15:23:24 GMT -5
I have been reading the magnesium post and it has my interest peaked...whay is the cvoyst (okay i know i botched the spelling, can't remember from 2 seconds ago how to spell it) it can be done at home?? nat
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Post by Mayleng on Dec 20, 2004 21:46:11 GMT -5
Yes, you can do it at home yourself.
You tap the hollow of the cheek halfway between the corner of the mouth and the earlobe. If the upper lip below the nose twitches or jumps, this is an indication that magnesium deficiency is likely present.
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Post by G on Jan 16, 2005 14:40:34 GMT -5
Sorry, another question from l*me old me. has anyone ever found chewable magnesium?
i have been looking for that too, with no luck.
I just love these smiley faces, they are so much fun!!
nat
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Post by catatonic on Jan 16, 2005 19:03:32 GMT -5
I haven't found a chewable magnesium, only chewable calcium/magnesium. Doesn't taste exactly wonderful, but then most chewable vitamins don't. There are a number of liquid magnesium supplements if you can't swallow pills, and some powders that are stirred into a drink. Floradix is one liquid brand I'm familiar with (if you're Feingold, though, be aware that it contains www.iherb.com/floramag.htmlflavorings that are high salicylate).
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Post by G on Jan 16, 2005 19:29:56 GMT -5
Thank you. nat
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Post by momtozac on Jan 22, 2005 12:04:55 GMT -5
Hi,
I've been reading here for about a month and think this is one of the best alternative message boards about ADHD. Thank you for your research. I have been giving my son Peter Gillham's Natual Vitality Kids Calm magnesium (a powder mag citrate) and he's complaining of an upset stomach. Is there a mg supplement that doesn't cause loose stool or stomach upset?
Thank you Natalie
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Post by G on Jan 22, 2005 12:52:45 GMT -5
Natalie, Where do you purchase that? online? Perhaps you could lower the dose that you are giving him and that will help with the loose stools. How much are you using? I am not the expert on this but from what I have learned on the site, if the amount of magnesium is too high that is what creates the loose stools. I am sure someone with more knowledge will contribute here soon. I am looking for a magnesium supplement for my kids too and that is why I was wondering where you got yours. Do they notice it when you mix it in.
BTW, I LOVE your name. I use Nat here but my name is Natalie too! Are you a christmas baby? That is why my name is Natalie. IT means christmas.
Welcome to the board, I have only been here a short while, but I like you feel that is the best board for information. These ladies are terrific about sharing all of their knowledge. i am not sure if they know how truly grateful we are to find a board like this. nat
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Post by Mayleng on Jan 22, 2005 19:32:00 GMT -5
momtozac. Thank you for your compliments. We are lucky to have two of the best ladies on supplements on our board. Catatonic always suggests starting low and slowly buildup. I am sure Cat will repond as soon as she gets a chance to check the board.
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Post by catatonic on Jan 23, 2005 10:18:54 GMT -5
Welcome, momtozac...
Mayleng and Nat are right that the best way to avoid stomach problems is to start with a low dose and build up gradually. This is especially easy to do if you're using powdered magnesium since the dosing is so flexible. Try backing the dose down to about half what you're currently using for about a week. If that takes care of the problem, then build back up gradually to your target dose. Magnesium citrate seems to cause stomach upset more frequently than other forms, not sure why, but perhaps because it is more readily absorbed. This doesn't make it a bad choice at all, it just means you'll have to be careful to up the dose slowly. If your son just can't tolerate it (my son can't take mag citrate), then look for something gentler like magnesium chloride, or a chelated magnesium. We use magnesium glycinate capsules now and haven't had any problems with them.
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Post by momtozac on Jan 23, 2005 20:11:21 GMT -5
Hi,
Thank you all for the welcome! Nat, I got the mg from the health food store up the street. It was on sale for $22.99 for a 2 month supply (1/2 tsp a day). I take a about 1/4 teaspoon and mix it with his orange juice. I also mix in his fish oil, vit. C, vit. E. He stayed home one day because he felt sick to his stomach and came home early one day last week (he's in 2nd grade). I stopped the mg on Friday because I want to see if he continues to complain. I might have to try another form if it keeps happening. I can't tell you how much money I've spent through the years (mostly on myself) buying vitamins and herbs that turn out to not work like I thought they would. Thats why I'm doing my research with Zac, making sure others are having success and trying those things.
Natalie Does anyone live in the North East? We've been hit with a major snow storm!! I'm in NJ
Nat--I wish I could say my mom named me after x-mas, just after a friend of hers! I always liked that my name meant x-mas though!
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Post by G on Jan 24, 2005 8:16:33 GMT -5
Natalie, I live in the northeast--PA. It is so cold this morning my van won't start. The kids are mad cause they had to ride the bus. Good thing i tried the car before the bus left. Thanks for the infor on your mag supplement. Nat
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Post by lovemykids on Feb 7, 2005 16:41:54 GMT -5
I was wondering if this sounded good to the *experts*!
I always seem to miss something somewhere so I thought I'd ask your opinion!
"Magnesium chloride solution consists of magnesium chloride as a concentrated solution in distilled water.
Each teaspoon contains 133 mg of elemental magnesium, and must be diluted in 4 to 8 ounces of juice or liquid for consumption. You are better able to absorb and assimilate this magnesium since it already is in solution or liquid form.
In the healthy person, only half of the magnesium ingested is absorbed.
However, many lifestyles, environmental and dietary factors can further lower the availability of magnesium.
Remember, most magnesium is present inside the body’s cells and is almost impossible to measure with blood tests."
I'm not sure what the difference of "elemental" mag is to the regular mgs if any.
Thank you!
Lovemykids
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Post by catatonic on Feb 8, 2005 0:28:00 GMT -5
That sounds like a very good choice. Magnesium chloride is among the best in terms of bio-availability. Your body will utilize it more thoroughly than with most other compounds available out there.
The weight of elemental magnesium is the number you want to be looking at, not the weight of the magnesium salt. For example, I have some magnesium chloride tablets made by Alta that are 500mg tabs. That's the weight of the entire compound. Each provides 62mg elemental magnesium. The remaining weight is the salt the magnesium is bonded to. Products ought to be labeled with the elemental weight of the mineral. It might say, for example, that it contains 50mg magnesium "from magnesium glycinate". That's giving you the elemental weight.
Where did you find your magnesium chloride? Does it taste tolerable?
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Post by lovemykids on Feb 8, 2005 10:21:26 GMT -5
I found it here www.painstresscenter.com/mall/MagLiq.aspbut I have no idea of the taste, my little ones won't swallow pills. I even bought the evenflow pill taking cup! Still doesn't work for them, they are very stubborn. Thank you for the clarification of the elemental part. Lovemykids
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Post by Brenda on Feb 28, 2005 7:58:28 GMT -5
I just started my dd(6) on magnesium.I bought the GNC 250mg.It has Elemental on the front of the bottle.It also says Complex form, Vegetarian.It is Magnesium Oxide and Magnesium Gluconate.I know Cat said to stay away from the oxide but should it be ok since it is mixed with the gluconate magnesium?She is not defic and weighs 55 pounds.I gave her half(125mg).Is that the right dose?How long should I wait before I add Omega 3?What dose of Omega 3 should I give her?Does it go by weight too? Sorry I have so many questions and not enough time to search for answers.My son has a preop appointment this morning because he's having his tonsils and adenoids removed and tubes put in ears on Wednesday.Thanks.
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Post by Mayleng on Feb 28, 2005 8:17:01 GMT -5
Brenda, the information for Omega 3s is in the Omega3 thread. There is info on how much and also what and where to buy them. You might want to checkout the how to get started thread as well.
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Post by catatonic on Mar 1, 2005 3:12:44 GMT -5
Brenda, you're a little low on the magnesium. If there's no deficiency, then multiply body weight times 3 for the maintenance dose. That would be 165mg. (Therapeutic dose would be twice that, or 330mg).
If it were me, I'd stick with the 125mg for a week to make sure it's well tolerated. Then I'd add the second half in the evening. You might decide you don't want to do that, though. And if you're not dealing with a deficiency, then it's also probably fine to stick at 125mg. Around this house, hard-to-correct magnesium deficiency is the norm, so we go big.
Hold off at least a week before adding the Omega-3. You need to add supplements separately and watch for any behavioral changes, since they can sometimes cause unintended reactions. Once you're sure your daughter is doing well on the magnesium, then add in the Omega-3.
Dose is not weight-dependent for Omega-3 oils the way it is for magnesium. Read the Omega-3 thread for more detail, but you are aiming for enough to provide 480mg DHA and 720mg EPA daily.
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Post by kc4braves on Mar 2, 2005 12:23:41 GMT -5
I am just researching the magnesium right now. I'm a bit confused, though, on dosing. I read the posts that this thread referred us to initally and they seem to give lower dosages. The list they had provided showed 130 mg for my 8 yr old. But now I see another formula ( 3x body weight) if he isn't deficient...more if he is. Can someone clear this up for me?
I'm not sure if he is deficient or not, but are you saying that he still needs to take some even if he isn't deficient? Right now I'm interested in what else might benefit him that he could take with his Omega-3's and Vit E in his apple juice. Might as well get as much bang as we can out of that drink. lol
Thanks, Kathy
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Post by Mayleng on Mar 2, 2005 14:38:08 GMT -5
Kathy, if you want to find out if your son is deficient in magnesium, you can do the Cvostek test. You tap the hollow of the cheek halfway between the corner of the mouth and the earlobe. If the upper lip below the nose twitches or jumps, this is an indication that magnesium deficiency is likely present.
If your child is deficient than you use 6 x his weight, if he is not deficient and you need a maintenance dose only then use 3 x his weight.
My son weighs 62lbs and he is not deficient, so I only give him 200mgs as a maintenance dose.
Make sure the magnesium you use is not Magnesium Oxide, this is not absorbed by the body easily.
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Post by Mayleng on Mar 2, 2005 14:39:15 GMT -5
Kathy, if you want to find out if your son is deficient in magnesium, you can do the Cvostek test. You tap the hollow of the cheek halfway between the corner of the mouth and the earlobe. If the upper lip below the nose twitches or jumps, this is an indication that magnesium deficiency is likely present.
If your child is deficient than you use 6 x his weight, if he is not deficient and you need a maintenance dose only then use 3 x his weight.
My son weighs 62lbs and he is not deficient, so I only give him 200mgs as a maintenance dose.
Make sure the magnesium you use is not Magnesium Oxide, this is not absorbed by the body easily. Also to avoid tummy problems, start low and work your way up to the target dose.
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