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Post by rocco on Nov 18, 2005 22:35:16 GMT -5
Thanks cat. Very helpful, as always!
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Post by ghemom on Nov 19, 2005 18:15:27 GMT -5
I'm new here to this board. However I have been reading the posts for a few months now. I have learned alot and I am quite impressed with the love and commitment you guys have for your kids.
I have a question to ask about magnesium. I am currently giving my son magnesium glycinate. A couple of months ago we had his neurotransmitters tested his glycine levels were very high(1442 w/ the optimal range being 200-400). I started the magnesium after the test.
So I was thinking that maybe mag. glycinate may not be the best choice since his glycine levels are so high.
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Post by catatonic on Nov 19, 2005 19:01:21 GMT -5
I think you're right. Why not take the mag glycinate yourself and get something different for your son. Mag taurate?
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Post by ghemom on Nov 20, 2005 8:21:13 GMT -5
Thanks for your reply. His taurine levels are high also. Any other suggestions? Also I was wondering if you or anyone else know why his glycine levels would be so high? His serotonin levels are low and we are using 5htp for this. His histamine is high and I plan on using methionine for this. However I don't know what to do for the glycine levels.
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Post by catatonic on Nov 20, 2005 11:02:45 GMT -5
Yes, you do want to get glycine levels down. While glycine often functions as an inhibitory neurotransmitter and performs a host of essential functions in the body, it also acts as an excitatory neurotransmitter, and at high levels it is its excitatory properties that appear to dominate. According to an article in Experimental Neurology (May 1997):
"We have found that high concentrations of glycine (10 mM) cause marked hyperexcitability and neurotoxicity in organotypic hippocampal slice cultures."
Does your son consume a high-protein diet? A lot of dairy products? These will raise glycine levels (along with dopamine). Could you adjust your son's diet in favor of high-carbohydrate, low-protein? This will also have the effect of boosting serotonin.
Do you take any supplements containing serine? (Such as phosphatadylserine or lecithin?) Discontinuing these will help glycine levels to drop. Definitely don't give him the mag glycinate.
As for the magnesium, as long as you do not have problems with corn sweeteners or corn sweetener derivatives, magnesium citrate is very well absorbed. It can be hard on the stomach, though, so be sure to start your dose nice and low and build up gradually. Magnesium chloride is another option, which actually might be a good choice for you, since glycine is reabsorbed (reduced) by a chloride-mediated channel. Raising chloride levels might make glycine breakdown more effective. And mag chloride is about the best abosrbed of all of the magnesium compounds. Trouble is, you only get about 65mg magnesium per tablet, so you'll have to take several each day.
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Post by coach1 on Nov 20, 2005 15:44:54 GMT -5
Cat,
Thats good info for my child. We have an issue of high Glycine. I read on the autismanswer.com site that Glycine is a fair weather friend and that if glutamate is high then Glycine can be excitatory and if Glutatmate is low then Glycine can act as inhibatory. Glutamate is normal for us. I dont really understand all of that but I get the basis of what she was trying to say. But anyhow we have high glycine. We take Phositidylserine in the calmPrt and Calm prt has glycine in it also. Recently we cut back so I am waiting for the latest test results to see if glycine has dropped. We drink milk also. And our child has odd eating habits as in eating alot of protein. Doesnt like veggies. If you have anymore on this subject let me know. Thanks again.
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Post by ghemom on Nov 20, 2005 22:15:41 GMT -5
Cat, Thanks again for the great info. My son doesn't eat a very high protein diet. He gets enough protein , but I would say he's more of a carb craver.( he does eat 2 eggs almost every morning). He also doesn't have that much dairy in his diet.
His glutamate levels are high and his dopamine levels are elevated. I tried the Calmprt, TravaCor and EndoTrex. He reacted badly to these ( less focused and more hyper and agitated). He reacted especially bad to the theanine, which is in the EndoTrex and the TravaCor. So I decided to just give him the 5htp to work on increasing his serotonin.
As for the magnesium I was wondering if magnesium chelate would be ok? Thanks again.
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Post by catatonic on Nov 21, 2005 6:36:23 GMT -5
Chelated magnesium is magnesium that has been bonded to an amino acid. The most common forms are magnesium glycinate and magnesium taurate. There are also chelated magnesiums that do not specify the specific amino acid to which the mineral is bonded, and they are generally a mixture of aminos, although I would check with the manufacturer to be certain what they actually contain. Chelated minerals -- if the chelation is done by a high-quality process such as that patented by Albion -- are extremely well absorbed. I think they're an excellent choice.
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Post by swmom on Dec 4, 2005 6:47:33 GMT -5
How long usually does it take to see any results from adding a magnesium supplement? What has been ya'll's experience? Also, what specifically do you see in terms of behavior, focusing ability, etc. ?
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Post by catatonic on Dec 4, 2005 13:35:11 GMT -5
I've found that magnesium helps my son remain calmer and focus better. I would say it took about 8 weeks to really notice a change in his behavior. I don't know if that's typical, but I do know it takes about 12 weeks to correct a magnesium deficiency.
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Post by swmom on Dec 4, 2005 14:25:04 GMT -5
Thanks, cat. I guess the tendency is to start them on a supplement then watch them closely for any changes. With dd, I swear I always see some differences right away. I don't know if that's wishful thinking, i.e. the placebo effect or if I'm really seeing some changes. She is very sensitive to medications. I'll assume the same is true with supplements. Yesterday was our first day on magnesium. She woke up this morning and looked well rested for the first time in years.
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Post by crillmom on Dec 4, 2005 16:13:19 GMT -5
swmom, i noticed a difference right away also. my son responds weel to meds and supp. we really like the mag
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Post by notab on Dec 4, 2005 18:29:28 GMT -5
We also noticed a difference right away to the health food store type of mag (nada to the discount store brand). My ds's effect was about equal to the effect of starting ADHD meds He must have been really low on it though since I give him 500 mg and he is just 50 lbs. His hair test showed him in the average range despite this large amount of supplementation over 6 months time. So I suspect that the amount of the reaction depends upon how deficient in mag the child is.
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Post by Brenda on Dec 29, 2005 19:33:54 GMT -5
Is the GNC Magnesium okay.I bought the 250 mg.It has Magnesium Oxide and Magnesium Gluconate.I know it's not good to use the Oxide form but would this one be okay?Thanks
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Post by Mayleng on Dec 29, 2005 19:55:29 GMT -5
Oxide is not easily absorbed by the body. You might be wasting your money. The ones that you want for tics is Magnesium Taurate. The other more easily absorbed Magnesiums are Chelate or Citrate.
Cat will give you her opinion soon, I hope.
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Post by catatonic on Dec 30, 2005 9:49:09 GMT -5
Brenda, Magnesium oxide is poorly absorbed. I'd avoid it unless you really have no other option...for example, your child has a bad reaction to all the others. It's cheap, and it's in lots of the mineral combos and multi-vitamins, but it really is not a good choice. You won't see the kind of results you'll get with a more bio-available magnesium
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Post by ann on Jan 7, 2006 22:51:38 GMT -5
I have my 9 yr old son on a multivitamin/mineral and magnesium. Over the past couple months he is increasingly resisting taking his supplements. It is becoming very stressful for our family. He swallows them with a spoonful of ice cream very easily. He complains over and over that his brother doesn't have to take vitamins, etc. and on and on and on. He ends up taking the vitamins but not after we're all stressed out over this. Any suggestions?
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Post by catatonic on Jan 8, 2006 2:28:29 GMT -5
Give his brother vitamins, too. All children benefit from a healthy supply of Omega-3, and a multi-vitamin isn't going to hurt anyone. Make it a family health thing. We do this, and my youngest became so eager to take vitamins like her big brothers that she learned to swallow giant RxOmega-3 capsules when she was barely 4. You could also try telling him vitamins are not negotiable and refuse to argue the matter with him any further. Just don't put his breakfast or dinner in front of him until the vitamins are gone. I generally prefer to enlist voluntary cooperation, but it doesn't always work. Starvation does.
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Post by rachelmom on Jan 15, 2006 20:23:26 GMT -5
Cat, I have used KAL magnesium glycinate in the past. It is time to reorder. Is this the best? what about Magnesium taurate? Thanks for your help.
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Post by catatonic on Jan 16, 2006 9:13:17 GMT -5
You know, it kind of depends. Both are good choices.
There are a couple of drawbacks to magnesium taurate. You get less magnesium per tablet (100 - 125mg) so you will need to take more tablets. And it's a bit more expensive, and available in far fewer stores and on-line shops
On the other hand, the taurine that the magnesium is combined with may have therapeutic properties of its own. If you take a look at Bonnie Grimaldi's Tourette's syndrom website, she has mustered evidence that the mag taurate helps reduce tics.
Magnesium glycinate contains the amino acid glycine, which also may have therapeutic properties in addition to the magnesium itself. Glycine can help stabilize blood sugar fluctuations, enhance the function of anti-psychotic meds, and there is some evidence (though it's weak and not the greatest quality) that it may enhance memory.
So it depends what you're looking for. I like the KAL magnesium glycinate and have used it for a long time. However, recently we decided to experiment with the magnesium taurate because my son really dislikes the gluten-free diet required to control his vocal tics and I am hoping he'll be able to tolerate some wheat if the taurate helps.
Are tics an issue for you? If so you might want to try magnesium taurate. If not, the magnesium glycinate might be more economical, more convenient, and since you've already used it you know it won't cause a negative reaction.
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Post by rachelmom on Jan 16, 2006 10:29:45 GMT -5
Thank, Cat. She is ADHD very impulsice, inattentive. She is a hair puller,trichotillomania.and type 1 diabetic. I give her 1 400mg KAL magnesium glycinate a day. Is that enough? She is good about taking pills but she does not like it because it is so big and solid. I guess I could cut it in halfand give twice a day. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
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Post by catatonic on Jan 17, 2006 0:41:43 GMT -5
You're welcome One 400mg tablet a day ought to do the trick. If she weighs more than 70lb, you could up it if you want to, but unless she's over 130lb, you're still in the zone and don't have to add more.
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Post by ann on Feb 8, 2006 22:17:56 GMT -5
Does anyone have any suggestions for constipation? My 9 yr old son is really having a problem with this and it seems to be worse since we started him on magnesium citrate 200 mg/day and a multivitamin without iron. I thought that the magnesium would have the opposite effect. He is also on omega 3 oil. He is finicky and does not eat as many fruits/veggies as he needs. I just started him on Benefiber which we stir in his juice or milk. He was doing better on Metamucil wafers followed by water, but he refuses to eat this wafer any longer. He is adamant about this. He said it gags him. Is there another type of Magnesium that may help him with this problem? Thanks.
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Post by catatonic on Feb 9, 2006 0:06:12 GMT -5
You could try Epsom salts dissolved in water. They are a magnesium salt. The instructions on how much to use are on any package of Epsom salts. You could also simply try giving him twice as much magnesium citrate. The laxative effect is dose dependent.
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Post by ann on Feb 11, 2006 22:21:12 GMT -5
Thanks. I may try increasing the magnesium.
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Post by ambersmom on Feb 18, 2006 18:49:10 GMT -5
Should i give the magnesium in the morning mix with juice..i got 300mg so i may spilt the capsule and add the powder to her milk or juice in the mornings and then maybe her snack in the afternoons after school. will this be ok i asked someone at garners today and he said to give at night for calmness does this sound right. would it still help with being calm at school depending on the time of day i give it. There is so much to learn still. what would you suggest to most beneifit. thanks.
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Post by Mayleng on Feb 19, 2006 9:10:10 GMT -5
ambersmom, cat is away right now. She will respond when she gets back .
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Post by Heartlandmom on Feb 19, 2006 21:06:17 GMT -5
Hello Everyone,
I have a question in regard to the Magnesium Glycinate. My son weighs 80 pounds. I am giving him KAL Magnesium Glycinate. It states on the container that the Serving Size: 2 Rapid-Solv Tablets. Serving Per Container - 90. Amount per serving: 400 mg. There are 180 tablets in the bottle. Does that mean each tablet contains only 200 mg? If I want to give him therapeutic doses, would I give him 2 and 1/2 tablets which I think would equal 500 mg? One more thing, I read somewhere that the body only really absorbs about half the Magnesium provided through supplementation. Have you heard about this as well? Thanks for all your help.
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Post by catatonic on Feb 20, 2006 9:38:04 GMT -5
Ambersmom, I like splitting the dose in half. You're less likely to cause stomach upset that way, and you also won't have so much excess magnesium excreted in urine. (It's water soluble, and if you give a large dose, the extra will just go right on through.)
An evening dose can help your child go to sleep more easily. For general reduction of hyperactivity, though, the most important thing is to raise the magnesium level overall. This can takes weeks or even months to achieve, and isn't really dependent on what time of day you give the magnesium.
I'd stick with your plan of 1/2 in the juice and 1/2 with the snack. Giving supplements has got to work with your schedule and your lifestyle or you'll skip doing it. If you've found a way to give them that works for you, then that's what I would do.
Heartlandmom -- You're correct that each magnesium tablet contains 200mg, and that 2 1/2 tablets would be the ideal therapeutic dose.
Your body won't absorb all the magnesium you provide through supplementation. Each of the various compounds has a different rate of absorption, with magnesium oxide being the worst and magnesium chloride being the best. Tablets are more poorly absorbed than powders or liquids, in general. Absorption rates of 20 - 45% are typical.
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Post by Heartlandmom on Feb 20, 2006 14:56:25 GMT -5
Thanks Cat for all the information. I do have one more question. If the absorption rate is only 20-45% should I be giving my son 1000 mg to achieve the 500 mg therapeutic dose?
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