|
Post by codyjr on Feb 20, 2006 18:28:54 GMT -5
Cat,I had a question too.... I've started my son on the 200mg of magnesium citrate with no negative results. Right before he started,I had the doctor do some bloodwork and he is not deficient in any vitamin or mineral,including magnesium. I just want to make sure I understand,even though he is not deficient, magnesium should still help him? Would you use a therapeutic dose(6x weight) or a maintenance dose(3x weight) then? I also want to know your answer to Heartlandmom's question about absorption percentages. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by catatonic on Feb 20, 2006 23:33:33 GMT -5
codyjr - if you know that your son doesn't have magnesium deficiency, then the maintenance dose is fine. The therapeutic dose takes into account the amount of additional magnesium needed to remedy the deficiency. You don't need that.
As for increasing the dose to compensate for the lack of complete absorption, I don't recommend doing that. Certainly if the magnesium is well-tolerated and has beneficial effects, you can increase the dose. But dosage recommendations, and the clinical studies upon which they're based, use magnesium in similar form to what you're using as supplements. So start there. You can add more later if you feel the need. You have to give a seriously large amount of magnesium to experience any side effects other than stomach upset. On the other hand, no need to create expensive magnesium-rich urine, which is what will happen if you give too much at once.
|
|
|
Post by ambersmom on Mar 6, 2006 21:06:46 GMT -5
Hi, i am in search for a differnt magnesium i have become so overwhelmed with all the differnt types, i know i definately want something that is flavor, color, additives, corn syrup free since we are trying our hardest to avoid these things. my question is this i found this product from the vitamin shoppe. vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=CL-1350What do you think? It is 350mg and my child weighs 61 pounds i have been giveing her 300mg but it is mag oxide. i dont think she is defient(sp). what do you think. would if harm if she is not deficient. I just dont want to waste money on something i dont need or that would harm her if its the wrong dosage. thanks as also for your information.
|
|
|
Post by catatonic on Mar 7, 2006 0:15:32 GMT -5
The Carlson you linked to is magnesium oxide, which has a very low probability of causing negative reactions or stomach upset, but also has poor bio-availability. I'd look for any type other than the mag oxide. The dose is good -- 350mg. My favorites are magnesium taurate and magnesium glycinate, since taurine and glycine both function as inhibitory neurotransmitters and have calming properties of their own, in addition to the therapeutic value of the magnesium. Magnesium glycinate is much cheaper. Mag taurate: vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=CV-1094Mag glycinae: vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=KA-1954
|
|
april
Full Member
Posts: 35
|
Post by april on Mar 7, 2006 16:45:49 GMT -5
Cat, thx for this site. I bought the same CR mag taurate from House of Nutrition and it was $13.46 for the 60caps. Next order will definetely be from viaminshoppe...much cheaper!
|
|
|
Post by ambersmom on Mar 7, 2006 19:15:54 GMT -5
Thanks cat, i just saw where it said magnesium. does that usually mean its mag oxide unless other wise stated on the bottle the type.
|
|
|
Post by catatonic on Mar 8, 2006 8:59:31 GMT -5
It has to specificy what type of magnesium the product contains. Sometimes websites aren't good about providing complete product information. For the Carlson magnesium, for example, I had to check the manufacturer's webstie to see what type of magnesium it contained. The front of the bottle won't always say, but the ingredient label on the back will.
|
|
|
Post by joemegmom on Mar 15, 2006 9:56:34 GMT -5
Hi Cat, we are about to start some magnesium. I went to GNC and got magnesium oxidate which I see is the wrong one...Can you point me in the direction of a good one for a 6 year old 42 pound kid ( he can swallow pills--so I dont think we nee the liquid). I am planning on pulling him off of his med at spring break so hopefully I can get the mag started by then
|
|
nde
Full Member
Posts: 24
|
Post by nde on Mar 16, 2006 0:01:35 GMT -5
HI,
My question is: can a child get worse at first taking magnesium? My son seems like he's talking more, flapping his hands more (when he's excited). More hyper, not less.
Today he told me his body hurt(lasted a couple minutes) and his head felt 'funny', not pain but a wierd feeling. He said it happened the other day in school. Mag can't do any harm to anyone, right? He's taking mag taurate.
Thanks, natalie
|
|
|
Post by catatonic on Mar 16, 2006 10:18:56 GMT -5
How much does he weigh and how much is he taking? How long has he been taking it?
It certainly sounds like a reaction to something. It's pretty hard to take enough magnesium to cause anything other than a stomach ache or loose stools, but it's certainly possible to react to whatever the magnesium is combined with -- especially since you take a lot more of it than you do magnesium.
In one study done on epileptics, it was noted that some of them developed dizziness and headache from the taurine.
If you believe the mag supplement is the cause of the "funny feeling" in his head, you will need to either cut back your dose, or try a different compound. If you want to be certain, you can try discontinuing the mag for a week, then reintroducing (at the same amount) to see if symptoms return. It's possible he was reacting to something else. If you do try the reintroduction experiment, monitor him carefully and stop the mag taurate immediately if he gets "funny" feeling again.
joemegmom-- At your child's weight, he needs to take between 120mg and 240mg magnesium daily. With the exception of mag oxide, all are pretty decently bioavailable. I like the magnesium glycinate because it has a very low probability of causing reactions. I know that KAL makes a 400mg tablet, which you could cut in half for your son.
While they have good bioavailability, we avoid magnesium citrate and magnesium ascorbate, since they are corn syrup derived and cause negative behavioral reactions in my son. If this isn't a problem for you, then they are decent and easy-to-find choices.
I also like magnesium chloride quite a bit. It's highly bioavailable and the tablets are nice and small. Each one contains about 65mg magnesium, so your son is light enough you could get by with just two of them. I haven't found them in my health food store, but GNC may carry them, and I know they're cheap on-line. The one I've used is the Alta magnesium chloride, and you can get 100 tablets on amazon for under $7.
|
|
nde
Full Member
Posts: 24
|
Post by nde on Mar 16, 2006 14:25:29 GMT -5
Hi Catatonic,
My son is 8 and we just started introducing the mag. He's been on it about 1 1/2 weeks and we are only up to 125mg a day. He's 82 pounds and I know I need to get to 250mg. I was doing it gradually to see if there was a reaction. I give him mag taurate by Cardiovascular Research.
I will try to cut it out for a week and then give 125mg to him again and see what happens.
Thanks, natalie
|
|
|
Post by ambersmom on Mar 16, 2006 15:23:26 GMT -5
I just started my daughter on the same mag taurate and so far she hasnt complained about anything while takeing it she has been takeing mags about a month now but it was a mag oxide and i wanted to switch to something differnt so far so good.
|
|
|
Post by ambersmom on Mar 17, 2006 7:21:20 GMT -5
Cat, would the mag taurate make you more hyper my littleone hasnt had tummy aches but does seem a little more hyper to me shes been on the taurate for maybe a week. ive only been giveing her 250mg or do u think it would make a diffence if i up it to 375mg she was getting 300 for about a month before i switched her but it was a oxide. maybe if this continues i should try the gylicinate. What do you think.
|
|
|
Post by catatonic on Mar 17, 2006 8:37:07 GMT -5
ambersmom, I do think it's possible that taurine can be responsible for behavioral changes -- either positive or negative. It affects the release of neurotransmitters, just as prescription ADHD medications affect their reuptake. Some kids are going to respond well to it, some aren't. What I would try is giving no mag taurate at all for 4 - 7 days and see if your girl's hyperness decreases. If it does, then definitely try the glycinate. I really like magnesium glycinate and my son took it successfully for a couple of years until we decided to try the taurate. You get 200mg magnesium per tablet, so don't have to take as many. And the glycine has some beneficial functions, similar in many ways to taurine, but doesn't seem to have the same potential for unwanted effecs.
|
|
nde
Full Member
Posts: 24
|
Post by nde on Mar 17, 2006 9:58:16 GMT -5
Hi Cat,
I took my son off the taurate starting yesterday. I will keep him off for a week. If he becomes less hyper than I know it was the form of mag, but his glycine is high so what other form of mag would you recommend.
Thanks, Natalie
|
|
|
Post by joemegmom on Mar 17, 2006 13:18:51 GMT -5
Thanks Cat, I sent my hubby out to the vitamin shoppe to pick up the mag, as well as more omega 3-6-9 and flax seeds.I decided to go with the 400 mg mag glycinate and split it in half. I will let you know how it goes
|
|
|
Post by ambersmom on Mar 17, 2006 16:07:12 GMT -5
Thanks again, i will try that the mag oxide i was giveing her didnt seem to effect her the way this does. so i will give it a week off. i guess it would be ok to give her the 400mg of kal glycinate even though she only needs around 360 then eventually i can give half. Does this sound right? the hardest part is figureing out what works best with the supplements. im not sure what i would do without the wonderful people on this board.
|
|
nde
Full Member
Posts: 24
|
Post by nde on Mar 17, 2006 17:15:52 GMT -5
Hi,
Well I definitely see that some children get more hyper on magnesium. I'm going to try another kind of mag after a week.
The other day my sons teacher tells me after school that my son is being very chatty in class (something he usually doesn't do). Today (2 days after taking him off the mag taurate) and he 'mooed the cow' because he was the only one who was quiet while everyone else was talking when they weren't suppose to. (the teacher has a cow cookie jar that moo's and when someone does something good, they get to get a piece of candy out of the cow). So I see a difference already.
I'll keep trying to see which one is good for him.
Natalie
|
|
|
Post by catatonic on Mar 18, 2006 9:14:11 GMT -5
Natalie, Magnesium chloride ought to be a nice safe one to use. It has the advantage of being extremely bioavailable. Nutricology makes it in liquid form, Alta makes nice small tablets that contain 65mg magnesium each. Both of these are available on amazon inexpensively. There's also a product called Slow Mag, which is magnesium chloride with an enteric coating. I'd put this last on the list, as clinical studies show that the Slow Mag is poorly utilized compared to other forms of magnesium. The coating appears to interfere with absorption. We used the mag chloride for quite some time and had no problem with it.
|
|
nde
Full Member
Posts: 24
|
Post by nde on Mar 18, 2006 23:56:46 GMT -5
Hi Cat,
Thanks for your help, I'll try the mag chloride after I give him a few more days off the other stuff.
I appreciate all the research you do, my son got his ADHD from me so info doesn't stick in my brain to well!!!
|
|
nde
Full Member
Posts: 24
|
Post by nde on Mar 28, 2006 11:25:02 GMT -5
Hi,
Well I took a break from mag for a week and started him on the mag chloride and so far, no hyperness. I can't believe I didn't look on his neurotransmitter test that showed he was elevated in taurine (while giving him mag taurine--my brain hurts!!) so we'll see what happens now.
thanks for your help, Natalie
|
|
|
Post by mamaof2 on Apr 3, 2006 14:21:49 GMT -5
After looking over this site and learning as much as I can about magnesium, I have finally bought a bottle of Carlsons chelated magnesium (glycinate). Pardon my ignorance, but I have a few questions... 1. The bottle says 2 pills equal 400 mg. of chlated glicinated magnesium. From reading this board I understand this means 400 mg. of magnesium. How do you know how much glycine you are getting? 2. Can you get to much glycine? What are symptoms I should look for which would suggest an overabundance of glycine? 3. Since magnesium and calcium work against each other, will supplementing with magnesium affect the absorption of calcium? Do you need to supplement with extra calcium to avoid this? Thanks for all your help!
|
|
|
Post by catatonic on Apr 4, 2006 9:11:55 GMT -5
1. Depending on the formulation, magnesium glycinate is anywhere from 10 - 20% magnesium. The remainder is glycine. The 20% is more common, and I'd assume that's what you've got if there are 200mg magnesium in each tablet. That means you're getting around 800mg glycine per tablet. There's no evidence this is unsafe, and no reason to think it would be. Most of us get around 2,000mg a day from our diets anyway...people on high-protein diets consume much more. According to "The Natural Pharmacist" there have been no adverse effects reported from glycine supplementation, even at amounts up to 60,000mg daily. Here's what the doctor's bible, the PDR, says about glycine:
2. Primary symptom of too much glycine seems to be stomach upset. Don't start the magnesium glycinate at full dose, begin with a single capsule and wait 4 - 7 days for your stomach to get accustomed to it. If even that amount causes problems, cut the tablet in half and start there.
3. Calcium and magnesium do compete for absorption to some degree -- usually at the expense of the magnesium. To minimize this potential problem, take calcium and magnesium as separate supplements at different times of day. You don't need to add a calcium supplement to compensate for taking magnesium.
HTH
|
|
|
Post by coach1 on Apr 18, 2006 14:01:34 GMT -5
I found this online and wanted to pass it on:
Top 6 Reasons to use magnesium:
#1 Your brain needs magnesium to build the protective myelin sheaths that insulate the nerve fibers which network your nervous system.
#2 Magnesium activates a key enzyme in cell membranes that controls the balance of sodium and potassium. This is absolutely essential to the electrical activity of nerve cells, as well as to the very existence of a cell. If its sodium-potassium ratio got too far out of balance, the cell would burst.
#3 Magnesium activates glutamine synthetase, an enzyme responsible for converting waste ammonia – an extremely toxic byproduct of normal protein metabolism – into urea for proper disposal. The ability to focus and pay attention can be compromised by even small increases in brain ammonia.
#4 Magnesium activates almost all the key enzymes needed for your neurons to produce energy from glucose, in the form of ATP molecules. Magnesium is also necessary for the stable storage of ATP, so it won't spontaneously break down and waste its energy as heat.
#5 Of the 300+ different enzymes in the human body that require magnesium to function, a great many are crucial to cerebral metabolism and cognitive function. In the cerebrospinal fluid that bathes the brain and spinal cord, magnesium is present in higher concentrations than in the blood plasma.
#6 Magnesium is needed to activate the enzyme (D6D) that converts dietary fatty acids into DHA, the most abundant fatty acid in brain cell membranes. Deficiencies in DHA have been associated with numerous neurological disorders – from attention-deficits to Alzheimer's disease.
|
|
|
Post by bigsue on Apr 29, 2006 11:46:46 GMT -5
Does anyone have any tips on teaching an 8 year old how to swallow vitamins please? We would like to start Mag Glycinate and he is trying but just can't quite get there. I tried grinding it up and putting it in juice but it didn't dissolve. Should I have left it longer to dissolve. many thanks susan
|
|
|
Post by Mayleng on Apr 29, 2006 12:25:38 GMT -5
How about grinding it and putting it in a teaspoon of yogurt, ice cream or peanut butter.
|
|
|
Post by bigsue on Apr 29, 2006 12:56:25 GMT -5
many thanks Mayleng, didn't even think about slipping it into 'food'. susan
|
|
|
Post by joemegmom on Apr 29, 2006 18:00:13 GMT -5
I crush the mag first with a pill crusher then I put it in the blender with carnation instant breakfast and milk...he does not know it is there
|
|
|
Post by ohmama on May 16, 2006 8:17:25 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by catatonic on May 17, 2006 7:58:39 GMT -5
I just used bribery. I offered my son $2 to swallow his pills in 2 minutes. He figured out how to get them down. He still occasionally gags on the large magnesium tablets, but they go down. (I had to pay him for about a week and a half.)
|
|