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Post by vp4 on Aug 14, 2014 2:20:50 GMT -5
I may be jumping the gun but if my son stays true to form, I don't think he will get admission into any decent college. He is taking Physics and Pre-Calc enrichment classes this summer and struggling mightily. He is also taking ACT Prep class and I don't know yet how he is doing. He will take a test at the end of month and I will know then. He won't say much when I ask. I am certain he is about 2-3 years behind matuirity wise. I am pretty confident at this time that he will likely score in the low teens in ACT (out of 36). He struggles with test like these. That will never get him into any decent undergraduate engineering school. His GPA might stay around 3.8 or so. No extracurricular activities other than playing a sport non-competitively (chose Bowling for last year and it isn't even a sport), some weekend volunteer work. The school offers nothing in terms of clubs, etc. I fought to get him out and into a better school and his mom refused. Apparently, it is harmful to change schools. I have turned my thinking towards gap year after high school. If his mom would even agree or he would even agree, what are some options available for him? Other option is community college for 2 years and then transfer to 4-year engineering school. But I really believe he needs time off to work or volunteer and understand the value of hard work. Right now, he does bare minimum needed for homework and that is it. Rest of the time spent playing games and watching youtube. (I know I had been bi***ing about this for a while now) I just don't know what to do. Perhaps wait another year (he is a rising Junior) and see what happens.
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Post by jisp on Aug 14, 2014 5:35:28 GMT -5
vp4, I hear your concerns about your son. But you also need to remember that development is a process and some students do mature at a slower rate than others. I am glad you are thinking of a gap year after high school that sounds wise. Depending on your finances there are many wonderful options that can help open your son's eyes to what is out there. My son did a program with an organization called Sea Education Association. He first did their shorter HS program in the summer and he then did their college semester program as a gap year. SEA was wonderful for our son because it taught him that science is not something that is done by sitting at a desk with books and paper, but can be an active and sometimes physical endeavor. Before he went on SEA he was feeling hopeless about himself and his ability to achieve. After SEA he came back with new determination to overcome his disabilities and to push forward. Check out www.SEA.edu. THere are plenty of other similar programs. I have heard kids having similar reactions after doing NOLS courses or OutwardBound. What is nice about SEA is that there is an academic component to it. Just remember he will get there. The woman who won the most prestigious prize in Mathematics this year, the Field Medal, apparently did not do well in math in middle school. My own son starts graduate school this week in mathematics and yet he had not passed a single math class when he entered his senior year in HS.
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Post by healthy11 on Aug 14, 2014 9:07:00 GMT -5
Your son just completed his sophomore year of high school. Is he 16 yet? Before planning on a gap year after he graduates, what about thinking of him getting a part-time job? I realize it might be more difficult during the school year, since he's in a boarding school situation, but next summer I would definitely want him to do something constructive. Having any kind of "minimum wage job" could help stimulate your son, and help him realize that he doesn't want to be stuck doing that for the rest of his life.
When my son was in H.S., he got a job at a movie theater. It was fun at the time (he got to see all the new releases for free, and he was working alongside kids his own age) but he also saw the Managers were guys in their 30's and 40's, who drove run-down cars and seemed to be living paycheck to paycheck...My son was thrilled when he got his first internship in college, and realized he was already making twice their average hourly salary. It was an eye-opening experience.
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Post by Mayleng on Aug 14, 2014 11:38:19 GMT -5
I would make sure that the GAP year does not end up with a year of him just staying home playing computers, and then you will have the problem of trying to get him motivated to start college.
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Post by vp4 on Aug 14, 2014 13:54:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. My concern precisely is that he isn't mature enough to go off to college and succeed. If I consider gap year, it certainly will have to be something productive, not having a laptop/ipad in his hand. I like both your ideas. Get him to work somewhere or go on a structured program. I was thinking about National Geographic expeditions for high school age kids. I would consider community college as well for two years and then transfer later to 4-year university. I had done some research on that. There are many such colleges that have transfer agreements with very good universities and one is expected to maintain a GPA of 3.2 or 3.5 (depending on the school), etc. and then transfer the college credits to 4 year school and finish in 2-3 years there.
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Post by jisp on Aug 15, 2014 4:53:48 GMT -5
vp4, One thing I like to remind parents is that during the late adolescent years their child's brain is constantly changing. The changes that go on during late adolescent are almost as significant as the changes that go on in toddlerhood, but society often does not acknowledge them as we assume that 18 is the age of majority and therefore at 18 our children are fully grown and have become the adults they are to become. But nothing could be farther from the truth. There has been a lot of research into the brain of late adolescents. We know that the temporal lobe is not fully mature which is why many late adolescents are impulsive, attracted to risk and make bad decisions. Who your son is at 16 might not be at all who your son is at 18 or even 19.
I am a big fan of a gap year because I think it helps young adults to see a bit of the world and get exposure to what is out there before starting college, but a gap year does not have to be a wasted year. SEA actually provides students with a semester's worth of credit that can be transferred. Some colleges will accept NOLS credits.
Summer is also a great time to grow and learn about the world. I think that Healthy was right in pointing out that working alongside late 20 and early 30 somethings is important. It helps if kids can form relationships with people just a bit older than them who can be mentors and guides as they go through this turbulent period.
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Post by dw on Aug 15, 2014 7:02:23 GMT -5
NOLS, National Outdoor Leadership School, was good for my dd, 8 years ago. It was NOLS first time doing a canoe trip in the tributaries of the Amazon River, for 81 days, plus hiking. She had already been a canoe affectionado and nature lover, so it was not like she was a TV watching tech nerd thrown into the Amazon rain forest because her percents thought it would be good for her. She was really excited about it. They fished and ate piranhas. Lots of leadership skills, each student has to lead the group. Also, learning how to cope with difficult situations, like how to cope when you wake up covered with insects. in the middle of the night, with rain pouring down on you. You have to get up and move your hammock to a place where the tree cover protects you from the rain. Also, how to dodge things that moneys throw at you! My dd got 18 hours of college credit from the NOLS trip, from the University of Utah, of which about 12 applied to her college graduation credits for her major. She got 3 hours in biology and botany. NOLS is expensive, like a semester of private college tuition. It was $12K in 2006, 8 years ago. There were U.S. savings bonds the dear grandparents gave each birthday that were used for the trip.
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Post by michellea on Aug 15, 2014 9:07:58 GMT -5
dw - The NOLS experience sounds amazing - my son would love it!! He's received some certifications via NOLS at REI - always top notch. Interesting that she got credit for biology and botany - they are two requirements for my son's intended major. He hopes to start college right away and has the option of taking a 2+2 program that would give him an Associates and Bachelors degree. I can see him doing this between the two if he wanted to take a break....
vp4 - what a wonderful opportunity your son could have with a well matched gap year. It could give him some great insight into his own interests and strengths and allow him the time and space to mature a bit. What does he think of the idea? Will he be at the same HS this year? If not, I agree with Healthy that a part time job is an amazing opportunity. Even if it is stocking shelves or bagging groceries - kids get well needed perspective of workplace expectations, career paths and the importance of education and work ethic. Please keep us posted on how he is doing and what you decide.
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Post by empeg1 on Aug 15, 2014 10:17:00 GMT -5
I am wondering what this young man wants to do? I saw you wrote about him majoring in engineering. Is that your idea or his? I think parents certainly have a role in what their children do post high school, as in guidance, discussion and a decision of what one will pay for or not. However, I feel strongly that it is not our role to make the decision for the upcoming young adult, not for going to school, doing a gap year, which school is selected and ,certainly, the major to be studied.
Just my 2 cents
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Post by healthy11 on Aug 15, 2014 11:20:02 GMT -5
Vp4, you mentioned that you expect your son to do poorly on an ACT test, but elsewhere you've said he's strong in math and science and gets very good grades...if he gets an accommodation for extended time, I'm not sure why you feel he will score low. In any case, if your son does take an ACT test, like the PLAN, it should contain an "interest inventory" section that can help him to identify his interests, and career choices that relate to that. ( My son took it with "pencil and paper" but it appears they might now even have it online: www.act.org/profile/ )
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Post by vp4 on Aug 15, 2014 12:08:30 GMT -5
healthy, I said he will do poorly because he did poorly in SSAT and PSAT. He scored 1 percentile in LA and 18 in Math in SSAT about 3 years ago. I didn't expect such poor score. He got an equivalent of 1100 out of 2400 in SAT when he took the PSAT without any prep. That is why he is taking ACT Prep class now. He will take more prep classes or I will hire him a tutor. He doesn't test well. He does get very good grades. When colleges look at his application they will see a peculiar gap between his GPA and his ACT score. Those two numbers may not mesh together. Perhaps he will shock me and get a decent ACT score with lots of practice. I looked at colleges that don't require ACT or SAT, there are a few. I may have to focus on those for admission.
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Post by SharonF on Aug 15, 2014 12:10:48 GMT -5
vp4--
Because life is unpredictable, it's always a good idea to explore options and alternatives. That includes looking into gap year opportunities and discussing them with your son. Let him "try on" those possibilities in his mind. Even if he doesn't feel like talking about those options right now.
But as others have said, don't assume you can predict the future. Your son is only 16. He's got a lot of growing up to do yet. He will continue to change, move forward, move backward, struggle and find success, and may surprise you many times over.
If he *is* struggling in pre-calculus and physics, I'm wondering why he's thinking about engineering. Is it the teaching style/testing style that's the problem? Or is he simply not as good in those subjects?
For example, my son nearly failed 10th grade chemistry. His teacher asked me to meet with her in October or November of that year. She said the highest grade ds had gotten on a chemistry test all year was a 35 (or something like that.) But she said ds was "flawless" in the lab and even taught his classmates how to do things in the lab. The knowledge he used in the lab was the exact same material that was on the tests. He excelled in the lab and fell flat on his face with paper/pencil tests.
Sometimes, a student can overcome a mis-matched teaching style with good tutoring. Sometimes, even tutoring is not enough. So the student passes those classes with the best grades they can and moves on.
I think there are very few 16-year old boys who would rather do homework than watch YouTube, play video games, text or do whatever on the screen. And that usually doesn't change when the person turns 17. Or even 18. Most teenagers and many young adults live ONLY in the moment. They don't think about 15 minutes from now. Let alone five or ten years from now.
Learning the value of work is often a difficult lesson that takes years. Parents can (and should) lay the groundwork. But I don't know how to FORCE our kids to appreciate the benefits of hard work. Or to make them WANT to put their noses to the grindstone. Your intentions as his father are so good and so right! But the most beneficial and lasting motivation is when the drive comes from within. I believe your son just hasn't gotten to that point yet. My son finally started developing that type of internal motivation when he was 22. Until then, trying to motivate him was like talking to a wall. And his developing internal motivation is still a work in progress. It definitely did not happen overnight.
Getting a job or internship might be good experience for him. It might help him match his dreams or perceptions to reality. And interact with others. And learn about expectations in the workplace.
Both of my kids had lower-end ACT and SAT scores. Both got accepted into colleges. Honestly, if my kid's score is too low for any particular college, I reasoned that my kid probably wasn't a good match for that school.
My dd, who was written off for many years of middle and high school as "not college material" will start a 36-month doctoral program in physical therapy in a few months. She is proof that what adults see when a student is 14, 16 or even 18 years old may not be an accurate indication of what type of student and person they will become.
Our society has little patience or respect for "late bloomers." But many kids are just that. They will bloom. Even flourish. But it will take more time and patience than we adults might expect.
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Post by vp4 on Aug 15, 2014 12:11:31 GMT -5
empeg1, it was my idea. His mom wanted him to go to Medicine. I went to Engineering school and he does well in Math and Science and hence my suggestion. Now, when asked he says clearly he wants to go to Engineering and does not want medicine. He knows his strengths. He will not succeed in medical school even if he gets that far.
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Post by vp4 on Aug 15, 2014 12:21:36 GMT -5
SharonF, he may have struggled with Physics and Pre-Calc because of the teacher, who is a sophomore engineering student. But I think this summer prep will help him do well in the fall when he goes back to the school. That was the idea anyways. Give him a leg up on next year classes. I understand and agree with thoughts about slow maturity, etc. I was somewhat like him growing up. Didn’t do all that well in High School in some areas. But when I went to Engineering school, something clicked and all of a sudden I was a whiz with Differential Equations and Integral Calculus. I could never get the Organic Chemistry. Perhaps getting away from a domineering father could have calmed me down too. My worry about motivation is this….if we have to wait till he is 20, 21 or 22, think about all the years lost and decisions made based on lack of motivation & maturity till he becomes mature and motivated. All those decisions and years could have lasting impact on his future. That is my worry.
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Post by michellea on Aug 15, 2014 12:59:29 GMT -5
vp4- Perhaps you can reframe the years spent growing up and maturing - not as years lost - but of gaining experience and developing a good sense of self. Both of these are so necessary for a full life based on good decisions. I don't see the years as being lost if he does not jump into a engineering program immediately upon HS graduation. I see the years as a tremendous gift to grow and experience life. A bigger worry for me would be the time lost, toiling away at something he is not invested in, does not care about, might not be ready for, may not bring him any fulfillment or joy.
My husband's dad "forced" him to attend his alma mater after HS even though he was not interested and was not emotionally ready. By the skin of his teeth he graduated in four years and did not make any irreversible bad mistakes for which he got caught. He held a number of low level jobs, lived like a mountain man in NH and finally at age 29 realized that he needed to make a change. At this point, he enrolled in a MBA program in a state college - he was accepted conditionally. He worked hard, graduated and passed the CPA exam. Within 3 years he moved from a small CPA firm (the only one that would hire an older inexperienced accountant) and began working for Deloitte. He now has an extremely successful private practice and advises very high net worth, highly educated, powerful individuals. FAR from where he was his first stint in college when his father forced him to go - for fear that he never would do it on his own.
Moral of the story - a person must be vested and mature enough to take advantage of college. Forcing a student to adhere to the traditional time frame doesn't guarantee anything. There are different paths and time lines for different people - and the time that passes while one is taking a journey on that less direct path is important and can be valuable.
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Post by healthy11 on Aug 15, 2014 13:51:00 GMT -5
The descriptions given by Michellea of her husband's personal growth, and SharonF of her son's maturation, are so important to keep in mind. I know my son continues to be a "work in process." Although he has graduated, he still has a tendency to "live in the moment" and not think about longer term consequences of his actions. He managed to get an engineering job at a Fortune 50 Company even though his GPA was under 3.0, but he still makes decisions that could have lasting negative impacts on his future.
(vp4, I'm not sure if you knew that earlier this year, my son fell off one of his motorcycles and suffered a serious concussion as well as a broken collarbone, that now has a metal plate and 10 screws holding it together. For several days after the accident my son's short-term memory was gone; he had no recollection of having graduated, or living on his own in an apartment near his job, etc. My husband and I were very concerned, especially about his brain more than his bones; fortunately, he now seems "back to his old self," but do you think he is ready to give up motorcycle riding? Absolutely not! In fact, two weeks ago he went and bought yet another motor bike!) I can't understand how my son, a person with an IQ so high that he qualifies for MENSA, can exhibit so little common sense and judgement. He put his entire career, as well as his life, in jeopardy, but he's not a child anymore, and I realize that I can not control everything he does. I only make suggestions, and hope that he will eventually mature and appreciate the advice. In the meantime, we can only take things one day at a time, and be patient.
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Post by vp4 on Aug 15, 2014 19:09:59 GMT -5
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Post by michellea on Aug 16, 2014 18:19:36 GMT -5
Great articles - thanks so much for sharing.
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Post by jisp on Aug 17, 2014 5:01:13 GMT -5
Dynamy is another GREAT gap year program.
On late bloomers and more: As many of us have said teens are a work in progress. A child who says he wants to be an engineer might become an actor or a musician or a nurse or a business man. And a famous musician might (true story) decide to become a professor of Cosmology. The woman who won the field's medal in mathematics this year did not do well in math in middle school and HS because she said she was not interested in it. She was going to major in literature. Now she has won one of the most prestigious awards in the field.
My daughter is a great example of that. In HS she could not be bothered with science or math. She was eager to be done with those subjects. She applied to theater conservatory programs and went to college in NYC with the intention of becoming a performing artist. She then left that program and decided she was going to major in psychology. A college chemistry class got her excited about nutrition and she switched to a program to become a registered dietician, but then she took a course at her university that was run by their post-bac program for pre-med students and decided she was going to become a nurse practitioner instead. Her career has been unfolding ever since and this girl who said she hated science has had to take quite a lot of science classes these past few years.
Moral: Rather than thinking your son is going to become an engineer, allow him space to explore and sort out what is available. This is NOT a time to be limiting options but instead he should be expanding his ideas of what he wants to do as an adult. Let him try out everything from being a circus performer (just using that as an example…not meant to be taken literally) to a rocket scientists to a sales person. Engineering and Medicine are just two small niches in the wide world of careers. Your goal is not to steer your son to a career that will make money but to a career that he will be happy and comfortable so when he wakes up every morning he is excited about the day ahead.
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Post by healthy11 on Aug 17, 2014 10:10:58 GMT -5
Although I think engineering is a fine profession (especially since I am one, as are my husband and son) I do NOT think it's for everyone...Case in point, my nephew, who had a high GPA, many AP credits, and great scores on his college entrance exams. (He'd been accepted by M.I.T., but decided to go to a well-regarded school in the southern states, because he said he was sick of cold winters.) Anyway, he got his undergraduate degree in Metallurgical Engineering, and was awarded a Fellowship to get his PhD, but after earning his Master's in Materials Engineering, he decided "engineering is not for him" and now he's studying to become a Veterinarian! He's almost 26, and has no LDs, but is still in the process of "finding himself."
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Post by vp4 on Aug 25, 2014 14:46:26 GMT -5
True. My son would like to ideally major in Youtube. Does Google have a university? I recently interviewed with Google and jokingly told my son if I decide to go there, first thing I would do is turn off Youtube. He was speechless with disappointment. I have to see what he wants to do as time goes on. Perhaps, a gap year would clarify things for him. Perhaps not. I think he is at least 2-3 years behind his age in maturity. So, I don't necessarily expect a gap year, if taken, would clarify things for him a lot.
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Post by zippity on Aug 28, 2014 18:50:52 GMT -5
I agree with Mayleng. My college age son was enrolled in a university School of Computer Science so we thought woohoo, he is in a great place for his singular interests. He became very depressed in his Sophomore year at a University. Unfortunately for him over the years each depression was a darker one. This time he was on his own but not financially, so he talked to my husband and I about what to do. I offered up some solutions I read about here such as lightening his load or taking a gap year. He had plenty of AP classes to knock down his road to a college diploma. He opted for a light load in his 3rd quarter. He did not work on his depression through therapy but enjoyed the less stressful academic load. He acknowledged it did nothing to help him return with enthusiasm in his 4th quarter. As summer approached he had decided to take a gap year to work on himself and wanted to come home. He said he really wanted to get a handle on his bouts of depression. His dad and I said OK, go see the disability office and get the proper papers signed, then come home and get a job. I added the stipulation that he enroll and he pay for a Mindfulness Based Training as a form of self reflection and group therapy. He agreed.
It would not have worked if he was financially independent and my husband and I were not in agreement.
He came home. Other than riding his bike to the Mindfulness training classes and a psych appointment once a week plus chores, he languished in his room on Reddit. After a month and a half I did what you are not supposed to do, I yelled at him to get off his butt and put in his resume. He did and in a few hours had several hits for job offers. I have pushed this boy at times and at other I have sat back and watched after a discussion with him about his plans to see what he would do. He is a very low motivated young man and he needed a kick in the pants. He chose a job that would be close to school because he fully intended to return and moved out in one week - even on good terms with us! The job offer even came with the understanding he was going back to college in a year and they would put him on part time while he finished his education. I asked him why he waited until I got flipping mad to put in his resumes and he said, "I didn't think anyone would want me." WOW, I thought. I told him at my age we think that so it was an eye opener.
It's been one year. He has a great job in computer programming, loves it and his new apartment. He has finally gotten his license and has a car although he will still ride his bike to work on occasion. He became more upset the closer the day came to submit his re-enrollment papers and after much thought withdrew completely from the university. His decision is working for him after trying to go the college route first.. and he's only 21. My son is learning to get along with roomates, keep his own home, has a girlfriend and the demands that requires to maintain a good relationship, and seen one more doctor who diagnosed a vitamin deficiency which he is treating and it has been helping. His boss noted his bluntness as the only negative at his six month review. He has asked me for books like, "How to Win Friends & Influence People" as his boss suggested and he knew I had for his sister. Instead of getting all of this in college, my son is really trying to mainstream himself and I couldn't be prouder of him for it.
If your son could have a gap year, it might be a huge boon to him learning more about himself and what he wants. If he is one that would (sorry for the wording) not cowtow to your demands to get a job then I would say don't do it. The key for us was that my son didn't have a lot of money and had yet to be fully independent. He still had some reverence in us as parents and our word.
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Post by jisp on Aug 29, 2014 6:52:48 GMT -5
Zippity, I am so happy to read your update. How proud you must be of your son and all that he has accomplished and the obstacles he has overcome. WOW. And what a great story about flexibility and creative thinking when it comes to the transition to adulthood. I am so glad it all worked out. Curious if you felt the mindfulness classes and psych work helped with him finally listening and following through?
Jill
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Post by kewpie on Aug 29, 2014 8:32:28 GMT -5
Great story Zip!!
Eye opening that phrase, "I didn't think anyone would want me." I can't help but wonder if that has passed through the mind of my oldest as he is definitely having some issues growing up or even wanting to grow up.
My oldest has taken some smug satisfaction is issues his younger brother has had, like not getting out of bed in time to get to school, not always doing chores etc. However younger brother got a PT job at Starbucks last month and he become very responsible about washing his uniform and getting up for early shifts so that "excuse" won't play much longer. Younger bro has one more year to take some required classes needed to finish his certificate program and AS degree. Hopefully he will succeed in doing so. Older is going back to the Arrowsmith program on a full time basis. I hope that does it for him.
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Post by michellea on Aug 29, 2014 16:44:35 GMT -5
Zippity - Wonderful story about your son and your family and the path your son is taking to adulthood and independence. Reminds us that there is not one map that works for all, and that everyone has there own obstacles to work through and preferences to consider. It sounds like your son is finding himself and finding success. I am glad that he has been able to work through his depression and overcome some of his self doubt. Hats off to you and your husband for providing the support and environment for him to succeed.
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Post by vp4 on Aug 29, 2014 20:32:25 GMT -5
Wonderful story. You said one thing that I feel is very important. "He still had some reverence in us as parents and our word." In my case, my son has more contempt than reverence for me. There are days and weeks when he walks away when he sees me. He is a complete momma's boy though. And, his mom and I rarely see eye to eye on anything. That would complicate matters for us when it comes to deciding about a gap year. I had started researching community colleges, if he has to go to one. I kind of expect him to, whether it is after a gap year or not. There are some nice programs that enable transfer (some guaranteed) to universities after 2 years to get an A.A or A.S, etc. Here is one that really stood out for me. www.mdc.edu/main/
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Post by empeg1 on Aug 31, 2014 15:12:35 GMT -5
Vp4, You sound like a very loving, concerned father. I want to raise a point but I do not want to turn you off in doing so. Perhaps your son turns away from you because he expects something from you that he finds extremely hard. From your posts, you have a strong focus on your son's achievement. The above is not a bad thing unless you come across to your son as demanding and controlling. So, I noticed that you are focused on the career you want for your son, engineering. And, that YOU are exploring community colleges for your junior year son. May I make a suggestion? What does your son want? Has he had the room even to explore what choices he might consider post high school, when he might feel caught between dueling parents, each with their own vision of what they want their son to do and with a father that has a singular academic focus? Remember, teens can boomerang in the opposite direction of how their parents push them. Does your son have a creative streak? My youngest spent a summer in an internship in LA. She met a man in LA whom she likes a great deal (it is mutual). This young man is 30 years old and has an executive position in a production firm that produces animated film, commercials, etc. He is the young person on the management team. This young man went to Arizona State University, not a well regarded school. And, he graduated into a low level job and then got hired by his current firm and rose through the ranks in the last 5 years rapidly. BTW, he still watches Youtube! I think Zippity and her husband heard their son's concern and gave their son room to make his own choice about school. They set a limit about what THEY would do if their son was to come home, re working. Their son is forging HIS own path into adulthood and success. Can you take a step back from your son. Get together with him and do not mention school- just have fun. Back off on pressure, as often teens have an opposite reaction to such pressure, as in then doing nothing! It sounds like your young man needs time and space (!) to find himself and that means he has to find himself, not his parents deciding for him. Know that there are different paths to a successful adulthood. Breathe! What worked for you may not work for your son. He may be a late bloomer, who needs extra time to mature. And, I think space to mature, without pressure to be what mom or dad wants. My own youngest daughter is not a stellar student. She has lots of difficulty with exams and does not get top grades. She goes to a good university but not a top tier one by any means. And, her GPA is not a 3.0. But, she is turning into quite an adult in her own way. This summer she worked as an intern in LA. She moved to LA knowing no one. She was scared and she thrived, doing well at work, meeting friends, living on her own budget, navigating LA, finding her own place to live on her own, making good decisions, and building a life as very much a young adult. All of the above a critical adult skills, not linked to grades, and I am proud of her. There is more to life than grades and school! Why not focus on your relationship with your son? Why not back off from school? Through connection, your son is more likely to hear your ideas later on rather than reacting against them, perhaps from feeling pushed? Zippity's son demonstrates that there is more than one path to adulthood and success. Another friend has a niece who dropped out of U Conn and who forfeited a $40,000 scholarship per year in doing so. My friend was horrified when her niece did this. But, this young woman worked for a number of years, with no income from her parent. Then at 30, she went back to school, studied business and now, as a graduate, having put herself through school, has a very good job for a major firm in HR. She bloomed in her own time and space. Perhaps your son needs that kind of freedom.
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Post by vp4 on Sept 1, 2014 2:05:30 GMT -5
My son will have freedom. I have come to realize that he is unmotivated and disinterested about his future. I am NOT forcing Engineering on him. It was a discussion between him and I, when he cares to talk to me, which led to Engineering as the choice. I am going to let him do what he wants with some reachable expectations set for him. You ask what does he want. He wants to sit on his ass every moment, watch youtube, play video games, eat crap like Oreos, cookies, crackers (substitute them for food he doesn't like in the dorm. Imagine eating those for lunch/dinner) and would like his dad to not bother him. I can't think like some people who think telling him that is not good, is a bad idea. I need to stay involved to show him the right path.
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Post by jisp on Sept 1, 2014 5:19:47 GMT -5
vp4, Laziness, lack of motivation and indifference about one's future is can be a sign of depression. Eating poorly especially sugar and carbohydrates can also contribute to the depression. Plus all that sugar is addictive so your son can be a cycle where he both craves the sugar and carbs and his body needs the carbs but then the carbs are making him depressed and result in his lack of energy, so he then feels like he needs to eat more carbs and sugar. It is a cycle of addiction that is not necessarily recognized by mainstream doctors but it definitely exists and increasingly there is literature out there that talks about the role of sugar in all types of diseases including mental health conditions.
Serious depression is not easily conquered. Certainly a teen in your son's situation would not be able to conquer it on his own as the depression is too powerful. More often than not depression results in self medication that can make the depression worse. (In your son's case it might be video game addiction and sugar). Some people do gradually get over the depression or they self reflect and then are able to make a huge effort to snap out of it. But many need assistance.
Zippity's son's story is an example of how targeted help can be a key piece to helping a teen or young adult move forward. He was lucky to have gotten professional mental health treatment.
Telling your son that you want him to change, or trying to talk him into changing may if not done properly make the situation worse. It is tricky business to help a teen or young adult who is dealing with depression.
If you can not get your son mental health help then you might want to think about seeing somebody for yourself. A good mental health provider can coach you as to how to talk to your son to make a difference and give you tools that will make you a more effective parent with him.
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Post by vp4 on Sept 1, 2014 14:01:19 GMT -5
jisp, as always thoughtful comments. I am considering seeing a family therapist myself to understand how to reach him. He is going back to boarding this week and I did lay down one rule for him weeks ago. Absolutely no eating crap. His mother is too dumb to understand how damaging it is for him to eat all that for lunch/dinner since he hates the cafeteria food (not every day of the week). She used to send him back with boxes of this stuff every time he came home. I threatened custody fight to get her to understand I mean business. It is addiction to sugar for sure. Not sure about depression, but possible. Over the last few weeks, I stopped asking questions about ACT Prep class he was taking. I let him relax and do what he wants. That didn't change his general attitude but I am learning to lay off and leave him alone. I am slowly preparing for the inevitable gap year or two or more.
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