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Post by vp4 on Jul 31, 2009 15:11:19 GMT -5
Well, he is the attorney for a different school district, not mine. That school district hired him after losing numerous cases to him. But he has a private practice. Sometimes I wonder if he can get past the mentality of being attorney for a school district and work for the benefit of a student but haven't seen any evidence to worry me. He seems to know how to play the game. My only complaint is that he is pain in the a** to get hold of. He isn't hugely expensive either. I am not going to financially suffer if the case drags on as he caps his fee to the parents.
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Post by dihicks6 on Jul 31, 2009 15:41:04 GMT -5
You can request request OOD placement under your current DP petition. When we filed mine, we mentioned nothing about a particular school for OOD, just that they had not provided what she needed, etc., (the same stuff as in yours), and the district's attorney accused my attorney of requesting a specific OOD placement in the dp filing -- which he did not. My attorney responded that naming a specific school would be premature -- although that's exactly what happened -- they offered to send her to a private LD school and that was part of the settlement.
I hope your district doesn't have all your info in the dp filing because then they have the opportunity to defend against all of it before you even get to the actual hearing. I'm sure your attorney knows what he's doing especially since he works both sides of the fence!
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Post by sld123 on Jul 31, 2009 17:13:24 GMT -5
i have a problem with attys who rep those who hurt kids and also rep parents why give business to someone who hurts kids? Well, he is the attorney for a different school district, not mine. That school district hired him after losing numerous cases to him. But he has a private practice. Sometimes I wonder if he can get past the mentality of being attorney for a school district and work for the benefit of a student but haven't seen any evidence to worry me. He seems to know how to play the game. My only complaint is that he is pain in the a** to get hold of. He isn't hugely expensive either. I am not going to financially suffer if the case drags on as he caps his fee to the parents.
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Post by vp4 on Jul 31, 2009 17:51:57 GMT -5
It isn't the attorneys that hurt kids, it is the lowlifes in Pupil Services. If it makes me bad, so be it. I am focussed on winning my case.
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Post by sld123 on Jul 31, 2009 18:15:36 GMT -5
i thought you said he also reps another sd
i am just writing how i feel on that subject
my focus has always been to prevail in our cases to make systemic positive changes for children but that is me
sorry but it is a sore subject for me because of what happened with the atty who used to rep hundreds of sd and hurt so many kids and families for so many years, including ours, tears are startin so i'll stop and it has been a hard day for me here too
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Post by vp4 on Aug 1, 2009 16:00:53 GMT -5
I understand your feelings about attorneys but I have to do whatever is needed to win. This attorney happened to be someone who was highly recommended to me by several people and who knows the game played by School district's attorneys. And he doesn't bleed parents for their last cent.
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Post by sld123 on Aug 1, 2009 16:39:44 GMT -5
I understand your feelings about attorneys but I have to do whatever is needed to win. This attorney happened to be someone who was highly recommended to me by several people and who knows the game played by School district's attorneys. And he doesn't bleed parents for their last cent. i've won more than once for pa kids/systemic changes, pro se.
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Post by vp4 on Aug 11, 2009 16:19:07 GMT -5
I finally got to see the school district's response to our petition for due process. The responses were standard mostly I think. They said stuff like "To the extent that the allegations are intended to allege wrongdoing, they are denied."
They demanded relief including dismissal of our petition with prejudice, order declaring that they acted within IDEA and provided FAPE and order awarding them attorney's fees and costs.
They further offered a defense saying that "petitioners claims be barred in whole or part due to my son and/or our unreasonable conduct." That made me furious.
Is this typical of what school districts do when facing DP?
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Post by sld123 on Aug 11, 2009 17:25:16 GMT -5
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Post by vp4 on Aug 11, 2009 17:48:36 GMT -5
I am no vexatious mother. ;D
I was furious to read them say unreasonable conduct on part of my son and/or us. Don't know what my son had done.
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Post by sld123 on Aug 12, 2009 7:14:53 GMT -5
i believe they must have evidence to support what they claim or else they are committing misconduct...
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Post by aworriedmom on Aug 12, 2009 11:06:04 GMT -5
I was going to stay out of this since I am sooooo busy fighting my own sped battles in my "free time," but I am mad as h-ll that they are taking this approach with vp4 and his son.
This is my district, too. This is how they played the game----blame the kid. This is a unique twist, though, if they are blaming the parent in public. SUrely if this is their MO it would have been used against me before-----I am definitely the most hated parent in the District since I have sent in state complaints and one to OCR. To them, they will end up sealing the record on DP filings that go to some conclusion, but with me, it is all now in the public domain.
Think of what the public would think if they knew wh
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Post by aworriedmom on Aug 12, 2009 11:23:00 GMT -5
Sorry---I hit wrong button. I meant to say think of what would happen if you go to a BOE meeting after this ends or call the newspapers.
If they think YOU are the problem, then why not invoke IDEA's provision on parent training? What have they done to TRAIN YOU? They have the burden of proof in NJ.
If your kid is the behavior problem, where was the FBA (functional behavioral assessment) as per IDEA? Where are his progress notes on IEP behavioral goals? Do they have records that they trained teachers to deal with his behavior? Throw it back on them. All of this is in IDEA as their job, not yours. If you and your kid's behavior is the reason holding back his progress, the burden has been on THEM to recognize it and take objective measures.
They have to prove your filing was capricious to even have a chance in h-ll to collect their legal fees.
Boy, I would hold in your pocket going to the BOE about the rich district trying to extract money from the parent of a poor disabled kid--trying to be the best advocate he can----rather than spend their legal fees to just help your kid. They filed DP against me to deny my older kid an IEE for AT and I throw it up at the Super every time I write to him ("Did you know this District is in the business of sueing parents and disabled children? Did you know this district you now lead spent more--manyfold more---for legal fees to deny an evaluation to my disabled child than the evaluation to help him would have cost? How is this responsible fiscal management?").
Your shark attorney should have a field day with this.
Just think of what they told OCR in our cmplaint. "It is the kid's fault the Italian I class teacher almost hit her and openly discriminated against her and then retaliated. It is the parent's fault that we didn't implement the IEp in almost all of her classes all year. "
I have waited for a while to use this line but so far haven't been pushed into using it.
IDEA DOES NOT SAY ANYWHERE THAT ONLY NICE KIDS AND POPULAR KIDS ARE COVERED. IDEA DOES NOT SAY IT ONLY AFORDS PROCEDURAL SAFEGUARDS TO NICE PARENTS THAT PLACE SWEET AND NEVER PUSH THE SCHOOLS FOR SERVICES. IDEA IS NOT A POPULARITY CONTEST. SECTION 504 LAWS AND A.D.A. DO NOT SAY THEY ONLY AFFORD RIGHTS TO SWEET, LIKABLE DISABLED CITIZENS.
What I am trying to say is I hope your SHARK attorney throws this right in their faces, where it belongs, and makes them get back on topic to talk about FAPE.
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Post by jdeekdee on Aug 12, 2009 16:19:58 GMT -5
Aworriedmom wrote - I throw it up at the Super every time I write to him ("Did you know this District is in the business of sueing parents and disabled children? Did you know this district you now lead spent more--manyfold more---for legal fees to deny an evaluation to my disabled child than the evaluation to help him would have cost? How is this responsible fiscal management?").
Did you ever get any replies for your questions? LOL
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Post by aworriedmom on Aug 12, 2009 17:02:00 GMT -5
Sort of got an answer. SUper once wrote back "No, I didn't know we were in the business of taking legal action against families of disabled students." Then he jumped and said something like "but I also believe IDEA should be fully funded." IDEA funding has nothing to do with district's filing for DP against families just to intimidate. I guess if IDEA were fully funded, he'd have MORE $$$ to file DP against families?
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Post by dihicks6 on Aug 14, 2009 18:07:01 GMT -5
A, have you seen the actual, formal response to OCR from your district?
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Post by dihicks6 on Aug 14, 2009 18:07:38 GMT -5
V, forgot -- districts will say anything until they actually get to a hearing. Then it's put up or shut up.
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Post by sld123 on Aug 14, 2009 18:26:00 GMT -5
they cannot say anything in a response to a complaint, it is a misconduct for an atty to advocate for something there is no evidence to present
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Post by dihicks6 on Aug 14, 2009 20:00:17 GMT -5
'it is a misconduct for an atty to advocate for something there is no evidence to present '
That may be, however, they do it and get away with it, mainly because hearing officers 'overlook' it.
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Post by sld123 on Aug 15, 2009 7:27:47 GMT -5
have to make motions and get ho to rule
one could be, to limit the evidence to what is in their pwn
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Post by aworriedmom on Aug 17, 2009 7:54:51 GMT -5
Di--I am trying to get the document from OCR you reference. I was told last week that ONCE IT IS ALL OVER--I get everything with names redacted. Not the same as seeing it now and knowing where the lies occur. But I warned them that District has lied in state complaints. I was told if that happens here, I can go back to OCR if I can prove they lied or filed falacious documents.
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Post by dihicks6 on Aug 17, 2009 8:08:34 GMT -5
Then how did you know they said it was your dd that provoked the teacher? I cannot believe anyone at OCR (or anywhere for that matter) would buy that. Just be prepared for them to say there was another adult in the room that can back up her story, which of course, is a lie. In addition, I would give them names of others that were in the classroom. Don't know if OCR speaks with students, but that Vice Principal that the teacher kept running to could fill them in (if he/she tells the truth, LOL).
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Post by vp4 on Aug 20, 2009 8:11:12 GMT -5
The case manager sent the IEP document they agreed upon without our presence.
Also, their attorney said the following my attorney. Don't know what this means. I have a meeting with my attorney tomorrow. The mediation dates are in October!
"The due process complaint has been referred to the Board's insurance carrier and I believe the insurance company counsel will be handling the claim going forward. I will verify tomorrow and provide you with a contact person to schedule dates."
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Post by sld123 on Aug 20, 2009 9:33:37 GMT -5
the ins atty will decide what the ins will cover for this claim/action?
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Post by sleepy on Aug 20, 2009 10:13:18 GMT -5
I have a question that may be silly.... If the schools have insurance for payouts for comp ed in the case the school was negligent, why is it that everyone screams and yells that those who win are taking funds away from other students? Did I misunderstand?
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Post by sld123 on Aug 20, 2009 10:28:09 GMT -5
the ins premiums go up a bit and the deductible is usually 10k
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Post by aworriedmom on Aug 20, 2009 11:13:06 GMT -5
I am also confused. vp4---this is NOT the tactic the District took with my DP complaint last year. In the past with other DP complaints by other families, our District had one BOE attorney for the mediations, and used another firm for actual court hearings. This led to sky high legal fees because neither attorney had any incentive to settle, since their fees kept going up with each meeting, each letter, etc as case were long drawn out.
Hmmmmm---just a hunch, but maybe this is a good sign? I am thinking that if the insurance carrier is involved, they want to keep any knowledge of your case off the BOE minutes, so out of any possible knowledge by taxpayers. If the public knew the number of court cases they have and legal fees, I know at least a few money shark taxpayers who would be up in arms.
I have never dealt in any realm of life with insurance company attorneys, but how do they know FAPE and how can they negotiate it for your kid? Isn't the general take on insurance company attorneys that they really look at the bottom line--i.e. what will it cost the District to beat you vs what they will have to spend to just settle with you and cut their losses? If so, boy I think this is a good, good move for you, because our sped head has a real reputation for spending whatever it takes out of the sped coffers just to win a case. He spent a ton more to stop my DS from IEES for A.T. and O.T. than the darn evals cost.
Almost every month, the BOE minutes list all the OOD kids and fees. vp4--the June16, 2009 BOE minutes are loaded with OOD kids ID'd by number, listing the school they are going to and the fee.
Something is up here. Gee, is our sped head ashamed of what they have done to your kid and he wants to settle with you quietly and fast (even with OCT mediation)? Or do they have so many other legal cases pending that their budgeted amount for legal fees is over the top, and they want to keep some of this off the books? My attennas tell me something is up. Maybe they admit defeat since your attorney is a shark and your experts are solid? If so, boy this is a monumental change of heart with our district.
Di and others--ever hear of this before? I am kind of stumped here. Is this a federal stimulus issue that they have worries about spending IDEA and stimulus funds on legal fees or state monitoring/OSEP watching sped problems? I have had a theory for a while that our district would much rather fight DP all the way, settle if they must and seal the record, than have the state come in an investigate them, even though they are in bed with the state Dept of Ed.
Best of luck. You can bet this is a chess game to benefit the District administrators in the end.
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Post by sld123 on Aug 20, 2009 11:30:02 GMT -5
perhaps the ins co wants a costs benefits analysis
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Post by vp4 on Aug 20, 2009 12:11:23 GMT -5
I remember a comment by the junior attorney in my attorney’s office while he was out. She said something along the lines of they were discussing “direct transfer” with the school district attorney. Don’t know what that meant and I didn’t ask as I was really aggravated when talking to her. We may go to mediation with the insurance carrier’s attorney and if that is the case, I am not backing off anything I asked for. I have no incentive to settle for less than what I absolutely want, as I am willing to fight it out in a hearing and will take on additional expense needed to win the case for however long it takes. It may be my attorney who is also known for settling cases in addition to winning them in hearings, prefers this approach in our case. I will know what this means tomorrow as I have a meeting with him. I would suspect the insurance carrier’s attorney will have to take the settlement to district for approval.
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Post by sld123 on Aug 20, 2009 12:22:12 GMT -5
have a good feelin on this one
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