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Post by G on Jan 7, 2005 8:46:05 GMT -5
hello, i was looking at the house of nutrition web site (thanks mayleng) and i saw the product Peechy Keen, it is a peach flavored cod liver oil. has anyone ever used that? I am just looking for a product to buy. One that would be good for my 8 year old and 5 year old to take. The 5 year old is not show any attention problems yet, but occasionaly gets excema spots and i read that omega is good for that too.
any recommendations on a product that your kids liked? pills are okay for my 8 year old but have never tried them on the 5 year old. thanks, nat
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Post by catatonic on Jan 8, 2005 4:27:21 GMT -5
My 4-year-old has taken Nordic Naturals Omega-3 Liquid, which she says tastes disgusting (even though it's lemon flavored). She's also taken the Natural Factors Rx-Omega-3 in GIANT capsule form, biting open the capsule to suck out the oil, then spitting out the encapsulation. (I don't recommend this unless it's a volunteer effort on the part of the kid, because it tastes even worse than the liquid.) If you go with a liquid, I would recommend one that comes from fish body oils rather than from liver. The problem with the cod liver oils is that they are quite high in Vitamin A. Excessive Vitamin A intake can cause toxicity, and the upper tolerable limit for a 4-8 year old has been established at 3,000 IU daily. The Peachy Keen, when taken at the 3/4 tsp. dose contributes nearly half that amount. This may or may not be an issue, depending on Vitamin A intake from other sources -- such as milk drinking, or a multi-vitamin containing pre-formed Vitamin A. The Peachy Keen also wouldn't be my first choice because of the relatively low EPA content. 3/4 tsp. contains 525mg DHA and 337mg EPA. The Omega-3 Liquid that my little one takes provides 450mg DHA and 675mg EPA in a 3/4 tsp. dose. (House of Nutrition has it here: store.yahoo.com/hono/768990017636.html ) In order to replicate clinical studies that have found Omega-3 oils effective in treating ADHD, you need to consume 480mg DHA and 720mg EPA daily. Many children will do quite well on a formulation that is high in DHA but contains very little EPA. Others will not show much of a response without the high EPA. (My son is one of those who has to have the EPA.) If you want to try a very small pill, one that even a 5-year-old can probably swallow easily, Now makes a DHA-250 capsule that's really little. Each capsule contains 250mg DHA and 100mg EPA. My 4-year-old can swallow these just fine and while they may not have the "ideal" combination of Omega-3 oils, they are just fine for a young child, especially one without attention or hyperactivity problems. store.yahoo.com/hono/733739016102.html
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Post by kerosene on Jan 8, 2005 9:37:50 GMT -5
Hi there. I'm new here. I have a 13yo ADHD daughter and a 14 you Bipolar son. I have read that some people get manic after taking fish oil. Do you know why that is? Would lowering or raising the DHA or EPA help this? Or do you think sticking it out for a little while, the mania would decrease? Anyone had this experience?
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Post by G on Jan 9, 2005 0:08:58 GMT -5
I found this supplement on iherb. Because of the amounts of everthing, would i only have to give one to my daughter? I was at a couple health food store today and would ahve felt so lucky if i could have logged on to talk to you guys when i was there. thanks for all of your help. very much appreciated. Does this look like a good one?o
iRxOmega-3 Factors (Rx Omega 3), Natural Factors, 120 Softgels • Dr. Michael Murray Recommended • Pharmaceutical Grade • EPA 400 mg / DHA 200 mg • Helps maintain Cardiovascular Function & a Healthy Circulatory System * • Dietary Supplement
RxOmega-3 Factors contains a pharmaceutical grade marine lipid concentrate
Thanks, nat
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Post by catatonic on Jan 9, 2005 9:19:17 GMT -5
Nat - The RxOmega3 is what my ADHD son takes. I like it best of everything we've tried, but be warned that the capsules are HUGE. It has lots of things going for it, though, like an ideal DHA/EPA ratio, stringent quality control, reasonable price, and absolutely no additives that an allergic child like mine would react to. It's an excellent product. Kerosene, on the fish oil and bipolar...I suggest you take a look at the review of bipolar treatments by Dr. Paris Kidd published in Alternative Medicine Review for an excellent discussion of the subject. It can be found here: www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/9/2/107.pdfThe manic episodes you mention were apparently the result of supplementation with FLAX OIL, not fish oil. Clinical studies using fish oil have found that it reduces the frequency of mood cycling and tames those manic spikes. In the article above, page 16 discusses the clinical findings on Omega-3 and its benefits in bipolar disorder. Page 17 explores the problems associated with flax oil. If you are using flax oil for your Omega3 supplementation -- STOP IT! Switch to fish oil.
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Post by G on Jan 9, 2005 10:59:59 GMT -5
Thanks, i guess i picked a good one. I just ordered laura stevens book online too, to have some references at home. I emailed her a question, and she emailed me right back. Very nice. She was saying that some of the new studies suggest more EPA and less DHA. Her first study is publised in Clinical Nutrition. I would like to see that. thanks again!! nat
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Post by G on Jan 9, 2005 17:55:12 GMT -5
I was looking up a few things after I logged onto Laura Stevens web site. She mentioned that her research was published in the American journal of Clinical Nutrition, so i took a peek.
The first two abstracts on this page are good. The first one says what you have been telling us all along. that 480 mg DHA is great for adhd the next articles talks about the study they did with dyslexic and dyspraxia and how the DHA showed improvemnets in that too.
This is a link to the abstracts. A little technical but you can still see the results.
nat
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Post by swmom on Jan 10, 2005 3:44:31 GMT -5
At the risk of sounding uninformed, who is Laura Stevens?
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Post by swmom on Jan 10, 2005 4:27:04 GMT -5
We've been on omega now for a week. Just one gel of the Nordic Naturals Complete Omega in the a.m. I haven't added any vitamin E yet. I do plan to increase to 3 gels a day with the vit. E. For the most part, she has been very, very calm. And her hair is shinier. Could it be that this small amount is already working? This happened to us the last time we added omega 3. Thought I saw a difference pretty quickly. We may have that super metabolizer gene. 'Spose she's metabolizing the omega 3 that fast? Hmmm. Maybe it's just wishful thinking???
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Post by G on Jan 10, 2005 8:32:45 GMT -5
I didn't know who she was until i heard someone post about her on either this board or Schwaab board. She has done research and writtine about book 12 Effective ways to help your ADD/ADHD child. You can get to her web site from this link here: users.nlci.com/nutrition/news.htmi also emailed her a question, and she got right back to me. I logged onto to the Journal of Clinical Nutrition and looked at some of the research she had published with her professors at Purdue University. I don't really understand all of it, but you can see that the studies were real. I can remember one of my professors in college saying, if you want nutrition advice ask a Dietician. Since we are trying the nutrition/supplement route, I am glad i found this web site and Laura Stevens web site. They have been wonderful! That is awesome that you are already seeing results from the Omega 3's. After you mentioned shiny hair I had a DUH!! moment. I was just thinking the other day that my hair didn't look as dull. I have been taking the omega's too. I havn't noticed my daughter being calmed, but she is holding her own at school, off of the Ritalin. She is getting very moody lately. She will be 9 soon, i think it is just the age. I hope it is not the supplements. I don't want to have to stop those. nat
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Post by baysmommy on Jan 10, 2005 23:03:11 GMT -5
OK....headed to GNC tomorrow! Going to put DD on Omega-3's that I got today, 480DHA/780EPA I wonder if that is too much EPA. But it was the ONLY one I could find with High DHA. Also putting her on 500-600mgs magnesium.I realize it may take a while to see results, but I am willing to give it a shot!
erin ;D
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Post by G on Jan 11, 2005 10:23:02 GMT -5
Okay, I am excited. i made my first purchase at Iherb. the prices are fairly simialr to what I find around here , and maybe a little bit cheaper. no shipping charges after 20, that is great.
i ordered the Rx Omega 3 400 EPA and 200 DHA
i also ordered the NOW 250 100 EPA and 250 DHA
i am going to give one NOW to my non ADHD son,
do you think it would be okay to give one NOW to my ADD daughter in the AM and then an omega 3 in the evening.
that would give her: 600 EPA and 450 DHA
do you think that is enough? or should i not use two different types of pills. AAHHH. i just thought that maybe since one pill is so big I would give her a break and give her a smaller one one time.
make any sense? thanks, nat
did someone say that they purchases chewable magnesium. I don't think my daughters multi gives enough. has anyone found a good multi that has a decent amount of E and magnesium, to cut down on the amount of supplements i give?
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Post by swmom on Jan 11, 2005 12:55:28 GMT -5
I was reading in The LCP Solution that after 3 months of omega 3, you should cut back the amount you're giving by 1/2 to a maintenance dose. I haven't heard anyone here talk about that. Has anyone done that?
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Post by G on Jan 11, 2005 14:40:04 GMT -5
I was wondering about that too today? After your deficiency is over that seems to make sense. To cut back. I do not know the answer but I am sure someone else does...these guys are the ADHD human encyclopedias!!
nat
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Post by ohmama on Jan 11, 2005 14:49:52 GMT -5
When I tried to cut back on the dose I found I could not. The behavior was awful, like something out of "The Exorcist". In fact I had to increase the omega 3 and am now using several grams. I think it all depends on the disorder you are treating as to how much you will need to level off at or maybe even increase. Dr. Stoll mentions this in his book "The Omega 3 Connection".
I am glad to report that this is entirely safe to use in large doses. After seeing the remarkable results with the kids using this I take it myself and remain convinced it is the number one product everyone should be using for brain health.
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Post by swmom on Jan 11, 2005 15:20:10 GMT -5
Ohmama - Several GRAMS??? Woooow. But if it works, it works I guess.
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Post by Mayleng on Jan 11, 2005 20:04:04 GMT -5
I was looking up a few things after I logged onto Laura Stevens web site. She mentioned that her research was published in the American journal of Clinical Nutrition, so i took a peek. The first two abstracts on this page are good. The first one says what you have been telling us all along. that 480 mg DHA is great for adhd the next articles talks about the study they did with dyslexic and dyspraxia and how the DHA showed improvemnets in that too. This is a link to the abstracts. A little technical but you can still see the results. nat Nat, I had to delete your link because it was causing the format of this page to go nuts. I have to figure out how to get the link back with out altering the format of this page. www.ajcn.orgSorry, I can't include the entire link because it seems to want to widen the page.
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Post by catatonic on Jan 12, 2005 6:07:34 GMT -5
We had the same experience that OhMama did...attempting to cut back to a maintenance dose was not successful. Attentiveness slipped and I began getting those "He talks too much" comments from school again. Part of the reason so many ADHD kids are deficient in essential fatty acids may be that they have difficulty metabolizing them, in which case supplementation isn't simply a matter of correcting the problem and being done with it. It's an ongoing battle to get -- and keep -- sufficient amounts of Omega-3 in them.
Nat, if you want to mix-and-match your capsules, go for it. The primary concern is getting that stuff into her, whatever it takes!
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Post by ohmama on Jan 12, 2005 14:32:42 GMT -5
Here's an update.... You can now get the Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega Liquid 4oz. bottle (875mg EPA & 625mg DHA per half teaspoon) for $20.21!! It was $29.96 for this not too long ago. Don't you just love finding a better price! www.houseofnutrition.com1-18-05 The price went back up. Now it's $33 and some change. I'll bet anything the $20 price was an error and they caught it! I knew it was too good to be true so I jumped on it and ordered 8 bottles just in time.
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Post by catatonic on Jan 13, 2005 4:49:35 GMT -5
You know, we can't use the Nordic Naturals at all, much to my disappointment. Challenge Boy reacts to the lemon oil in the fish oil. He had a HORRIBLE month at school before I finally figured it out. Now we stick to the plain old Rx-Omega-3. He'd been barely passing math and science when I switched him back to the Rx-Omega, but within two weeks had his grades back up to A/B. Very frustrating experience!
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Post by Mayleng on Jan 13, 2005 8:05:13 GMT -5
I am even sadder. Because of his nosebleeds, I have had to take ds off the Omega 3s altogether. I have a full bottle of Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega Liquid and a full bottle of the RX one too. My older son won't take the liquid one because he doesn't like the taste. So guess who will be taking it? ;D
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Post by G on Jan 13, 2005 23:59:58 GMT -5
:)thanks so much for telling me about iherb!! i posted on the 11th that i made my first purchase and it was at my door today. I am so impressed. Cat..i was a little worried about the size of the Rx Omega's but they are not bigger than the ones my daugher is taking now. which is big, but she doesn't complain . The now ones are a nice size, i will see if i can get my little guy to take one tomorrow. it does not say on the bottle to keep them in the fridge, but some one recommended that here. So, i put them right in the fridge, next to my milk so I wont forget to get them out in the morning. Today, she did say that sometimes she gets a fishy taste in her belly. i am hoping that these have less of an aftertaste. Thanks again, for all of the supplement help, i would have never figured this our on my own. Also, as i am a little pill leary, i would have been a little skeptical using it on my kids if I didn't know that other moms were using it and their kids were doing good, and not growing gills off to bed, it is almost midnight and i have a full day of babysitting my sick neice tomorrow. terrible two's with a cold. not fun! nat
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Post by swmom on Jan 14, 2005 6:54:54 GMT -5
"Not growing gills..." That's hilarious, nat!
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Post by franksmom on Jan 14, 2005 23:55:20 GMT -5
What if yu store thm in the freezer? I read somewhere that it helps eliminate some of the fishy after taste.
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Post by lovemykids on Jan 15, 2005 22:29:03 GMT -5
Has anyone tried Ultra Omega 369 Liquid ( Concentrated ), Country Life?
It has Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) (from fish oil concentrate-sardine, mackerel, anchovy) 450 mg Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) from fish oil concentrate-sardine, mackerel, anchovy) 300 mg gamma-Linolenic Acid (GLA) (from borage seed oil) 300 mg
Per teaspoon. My DD won't take pills so I was wondering if anyone has tried this?
Thanks, Lovemykids
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Post by Mayleng on Jan 15, 2005 22:48:59 GMT -5
If you daughter cannot swallow those capsules, I recommend the brand that Ohmama posted above.
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Post by G on Jan 15, 2005 23:31:32 GMT -5
i think i am going to get some of the liquid too for my little guy. he tried and tried to swallow that little pill from NOW, the NOW 250 and he just can't do it. He did get an A for effort though. He does not really show the signs of ADD but the omega's seem so good for everyone. I figure maybe i can get him to take 1/4 tsp of it. i have to get some vit E too so i might as well get both at once. The NOW 250 is so much smaller than the other fish oils we have tried. they are great, i like them much better myself. nat
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Post by catatonic on Jan 16, 2005 6:10:25 GMT -5
Lovemykids, to address your question about Country Life Omega-3, I'm going to take a little space up here to explain a couple of things about fish oil supplements in general... What is pharmaceutical grade fish oil? Actually, any manufacturer who wants to call its product "pharmaceutical grade" may do so since there are no official standards for this claim. If you are looking for a fish oil of assured quality, this is probably not the most meaningful measure. Things to look for in order to assure that you are getting the specified DHA/EPA concentration and that the product is free of contaminants include: 1.) production in a GMP certified facility. This means that the product will meet or exceed federal standards for potency and purity, will maintain quality assurance records for each batch processed, and in some cases will provide samples for independent verification. 2.) molecular distillation as part of the production process. This results in removal of contaminants such as mercury, PCB's, dioxin, etc. 3.) a final product that contains at least 60% DHA/EPA, which indicates a high degree of refinement. (For example, a 1,000g capsule -- pretty standard size -- will contain 200mg DHA and 400mg EPA.) Purity issues aside, in order to replicate clinical studies that have found Omega-3 successful in reducing ADHD symptoms, you would want to use approximately 480mg DHA and 720mg EPA daily. Comparing the Country Life product you mention to these criterion, you will find that it is produced in a GMP compliant manner, it is molecularly distilled, and the fish oil it contains is 50% EPA/DHA (a somewhat lower level of refinement). It meets 2 of the 3 standards for purity and refinement. If you use 1 1/2 tsp. daily, you'll be providing the recommended levels of DHA and EPA. One caution I would mention is that this product contains borage oil as a source of short-chain Omega-3 essential fatty acids. (These are precursors or building blocks used by the body to make DHA and EPA.) Borage oil can be toxic to your liver, even in relatively small amounts, if taken over a period of time. Before buying borage oil, look for one that is certified UPA-free. In theory, the borage SEEDS do not contain these toxic alkaloids since they are found in the leaves and flowers, but traces may contaminate seed oil. Unless you are extremely sensitive, borage seed oil is probably safe. (Don't take borage if you're pregnant, though.) Evening Primrose Oil is another source of the GLA provided by borage oil, and does not have this safety risk. That's what we use. You might want to read this article on borage oil: www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,10072,00.html
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Post by G on Jan 16, 2005 10:12:10 GMT -5
w*w Cat...i am always amazed at your posts....i learn something everytime i read one of them. I have to write down everything so i don't forget it when i go to the store. thanks again for sharing all that you know! nat
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Post by lovemykids on Jan 16, 2005 11:26:02 GMT -5
Thank you so much Catatonic.
After reading all the posts I was stuck on the numbers and not thinking of the refinment.
Thanks again for all the wonderful knowledge I have read in many of your posts.
Lovemykids
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