|
Post by bros on May 6, 2016 11:20:32 GMT -5
by what exactly do I expect to receive help on? Do I need to bring an IEP? will they assist in finding work? say volunteer work as a nurse' aide? She goes in for an intake - you can come with her, there are usually parents there. She discusses her goals and what she needs to achieve them, so if she wants to become a nurse, she needs to do x. This is used to create an IPE (Individualized Plan for Employment). They can help with finding employment, I believe (But they aren't able to help with me getting teaching interviews, just referring me to sources and offering me free resume reviews and classes on interview skills). Bring the IEP and most recent evaluations (and a neuropsych eval if you have one). Oh, and one more thing - when I was becoming a client of DVR in 2008, my parents had to have an AGI of $90,000 or lower for me to receive DVR services. I do not know if this applies to you or if it is still that level, but yeah.
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on May 8, 2016 20:47:08 GMT -5
bros - thanks. I am going to get her to check when summer begins. BTW, DD attends the current OOD school this year and she is in 12th grade. She told me that the sophomore has the opportunity to attend a "school" (??) in Ho Ho Kus part time next year for a nursing (aide??) program..she just does not have this opportunity as she only attends one year.
|
|
|
Post by bros on May 9, 2016 11:15:54 GMT -5
I don't know, could be a vocational school or something
|
|
|
Post by kewpie on May 9, 2016 12:06:25 GMT -5
fc11, I wish I jumped in here earlier. After reading about your DD, I would recommend putting her in The Arrowsmith program before she goes to college. I have two sons who have similar issues to your daughter (especially organization issues i.e. Executive Function) They, too were being spoon fed and they flourished in specialized learning school and then fell apart in college. The High schools did put a great effort in teaching them learning strategies, advocacy etc for college, but my sons Executive functioning deficits were too severe. Neither knew when they needed help or what to ask if they did. One failed slowly , the other quickly. Fortunately they were both community college and the tuition was covered by the DVR so the financial impact is not great. Still, it takes an emotional toll. My oldest son now 25 (who failed quickly) went to the Arrowsmith program for 2 years and he has returned to community college and now is getting mostly A's and some Bs. He had a severe language processing disorder dyslexia, reading and listening comprehension issues, writing issues both in composition and motor skills. My DD who had severe EF issues in middle school went for one year (3 years ago) and is now succeeding in High school almost independently (she still sees an RSP) and takes AP classes. She also had severe comprehension and expository writing issues. My middle son, now 23 is currently enrolled in the program and I recently settled a case with DVR to have them fund the program because he could not succeed in college in spite of high IQ scores. He has EF, spotty comprehension and severe written expression issues. He could not pass the mandatory English comp classes. If you do look into Landmark, ask them is they are going to incorporate the Arrowsmith program. I talked to some of their reps at IDA and they were interested in it a few years ago. The Arrowsmith program is a cognitive skills building curriculum that strengthens the weak areas of the brain to lessen or eliminate the impact of the learning disabilities. Its a 5 day week program for either 4 or 6 exercises per day. Feel free to PM me if you want more details. If I had it to do over, and knew about this program, I would have sent them right out of high school. We were fortunate enough to have a site pop up in our area 5 years ago. In fact, now we have 2. For more info: www.arrowsmithschool.org/arrowsmithprogram/
|
|
|
Post by glopop11 on May 9, 2016 19:46:22 GMT -5
I think the plan to try out the summer program at Landmark is a good one! She'll have a chance to experience life on a college campus for a few weeks and it may help her decide if it's the right place for her.
My D had difficulty with reading comprehension and note taking, organizational skills and anything related to math. She also could not generalize things she learned in the classroom from one subject to another. Basically, she was a terrible student and had no confidence in her academic abilities. Landmark changed ALL of that! But it did not happen overnight nor in a few short weeks. It was a process, beginning with the summer program where she "fit in" for the first time in her life. The summer program was a huge confidence booster both socially and academically.
The actual college program does teach advocacy, but what they really taught my D first was how to learn, and how to take responsibility for her academics. Things like weekly meetings with her advisor. Professors expecting students to attend office hours at least a few times per semester (it's part of the class participation grade). First year classes all have notebook checks as part of the grade. Landmark also has their own system of note taking and highlighting which they teach in first year classes. There are early warning systems in place where if a student is failing, they meet with the academic team and devise a plan. If that doesn't work they will get the parent involved. No other college will discuss anything with parents. I met with her advisor every semester per Landmark's suggestion. The Dean of students offered to meet with me when there was a social/roommate concern.
I could go on and on about how wonderful Landmark is, and no, I don't work for them either! I would be more than happy to communicate privately with you if you have specific questions about Landmark.
One final thought: Why do a PG year at a private boarding school instead of a year at Landmark? Is the boarding school an LD school? Even if she only lasts a semester or year at Landmark, she will come away with a few college credits. If cost is an issue, Landmark does offer significant financial aid even for families with good income.
Good luck with whatever you and your D choose!
|
|
|
Post by glopop11 on May 9, 2016 19:55:05 GMT -5
Fc11 I sent you a PM
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on May 10, 2016 2:16:41 GMT -5
kewpie - I believed I looked at Arrowsmith program a few years ago when I learned about it in COPAA, I thought the poster mentioned she moved to PA so as to attend a school having the program, but I just couldn't take the big leap to move. When I looked at it the web page just now, it seems there are only two school in NJ and they do not have a PG program.
|
|
|
Post by kewpie on May 10, 2016 9:39:29 GMT -5
Did you call the schools to make sure? Many of them offer an adult program but it may not listed on their website. Arrowsmith only allows schools or facilities that qualify as schools to use the program. I am not crazy about this rule myself.
|
|
|
Post by kewpie on May 10, 2016 9:54:55 GMT -5
Glopop11,
I am curious. Did your dd attend any LD school before Landmark?
Your description of the program: > The actual college program does teach advocacy, but what they really taught my D first was how to learn, and how to take responsibility for her academics. Things like weekly meetings with her advisor. Professors expecting students to attend office hours at least a few times per semester (it's part of the class participation grade). First year classes all have notebook checks as part of the grade. Landmark also has their own system of note taking and highlighting which they teach in first year classes. There are early warning systems in place where if a student is failing, they meet with the academic team and devise a plan. If that doesn't work they will get the parent involved. No other college will discuss anything with parents. I met with her advisor every semester per Landmark's suggestion. The Dean of students offered to meet with me when there was a social/roommate concern<
Its sounds exactly like the programs my sons high schools had (they went to different LD high schools as one concentrated on ASD learners and the other concentrated on language based LD learners) and they flourished during the 4 years. The only problem was, when the supports where stripped away, they fell on their face. It was a painful way to find out their executive functioning skills so extremely impaired that they could not "learn" organization well enough to know how or when to apply it.
I realize there is no magic ball to tell how impaired a child is in the area of EF until they fail. I can tell you this tho, a person with strong EF skills will succeed no matter how bad their other LDs are because they will figure out ways to compensate and know when to ask for help. EF the single hardest area of the brain to fix but it is the most valuable.
|
|
|
Post by glopop11 on May 10, 2016 19:48:51 GMT -5
Kewpie,
My D did not attend any LD schools, just local public schools with generic IEPs. Executive Functioning is part of what Landmark focuses on. They actually have an EF track, but it also overlaps all their classes and instruction. There is a lot of handholding in first semester classes, but a lot less the second year and even less in their bachelor level classes. D is getting no support at the State U she currently attends. They only offered extended time on exams and to take exams in smaller room. But that would mean arranging each exam ahead of time with professor and learning center. She would rather take the exam in the classroom so she can ask professor to clarify questions on the exams. D attributes her current success at State U to Landmark College. She is also taking a full load of five classes now, but could only manage four classes per semester at Landmark. The workload was much higher than at state school.
|
|
|
Post by kewpie on May 11, 2016 10:25:14 GMT -5
Glopop11,
Thanks for the info. Many of the kids my sons went to LD high with ended up doing well in regular colleges but some did not. Those are the kids that probably had the worst EF issues. I have considered Landmark many times but the cost was so high and my gut tells me that the skills would not stick (with my kids anyway) when they return the regular ed environment and we would be back to square one and a lot poorer.
My oldest returned to same community college he failed in and has gradually up his academic load while building his confidence. He started with a summer class in child development to test the waters. He got an A and kept going. His GPA is up to 2.65 and should be at or close to 3.0 by the time this semester ends. He no longer takes meds and rarely needs any accommodations. When he left the Arrowsmith program he still showed areas of weakness but much less so than when he started. His DSPS and DVR counselor has been amazed at his turn around. Unfortunately it was out of my pocket book.
I really wish the Departments of rehab would implement Arrowsmith as part of a standard course of rehab if it's warranted. Some of the case studies in the Barbara Arrowsmith Young 's book were from the DVR in her country.
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on May 11, 2016 20:23:21 GMT -5
kewpie and glopop11 - thank you...I am going to respond to the suggestion, but just that **I think** DD's deficits are quite different, that I am not sure where to begin.
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on May 12, 2016 3:14:11 GMT -5
I am sorry not responding earlier as the situation is complicated.
As part of my settlement with the SD, if DD chooses, she can have a PG year for next year (it is a fixed amount and does not cover everything, but depends on the tuition, it would be around 60% to 90%), or she can use it to pay for services while in college, however, it cannot be used for college credits. We opted not to use it for services during college as we believe she will struggle and have no time for services. My goal is not for her to have tutor throughout college. However, I do not want to send her for a PG year just because the funding is available, therefore the reason for my initial post. This answers why I cannot use it for Landmark for the first year or the Adult program for arrowsmith.
What healthy's reasoning was quite clear that I should really be looking into PG year rather than college and in the last few days, I just can't think of a downside for not taking the PG year....The PG school is technically not a LD school, however, it emphasizes taking kids who learned differently, has OG tutor and at one point, offered daily OG for DD. I explained OG is not what my kid needs and they are now offering daily learning specialist. It also has "regular classes" which I think will challenge DD.
I think it is difficult for me to describe DD's deficits. Her major deficit is listening comprehension. My concern for her to attend classes without support (I knew about "accommodation") is that she can sit in a class and when she leaves the classroom, she totally has no idea what was taught. This is alarming as she would not know "what" to ask, she used to just say "I don't know" and then the teachers would explain the whole things to her, but her interest would be to do the homework and still not understanding what she needs to learn. When she reads, she can summarize the facts, but then she does not the underlying reasoning...
If I understood EF correctly, her deficit is not in EF, she has great memory (not only from me, but from all of her teachers), she is observant, she is organized, she seldom missed homework, she took notes for those that she knew she needed to take. In fact, she is very good in making connection for anything that is not related to books and I have told her, hence I have not given up on her.I think because of the deficit in listening comprehension that she used to shut down in class, then it became her nature reflect. This is a reason I am not sure whether Landmark can help her.
I understand kewpie questioned the "support" from Landmark, I agreed that she got many of those in her public HS. For her, it did not change the fact that she is not learning in the public school, however, I do see she will greatly benefit if the same is provided in college, it seems that Landmark is among the few colleges that provide the significant support.
She is in LD school this year, I can see it helps her not only in her learning, but in her understanding her disability. I saw her writing to the PG school, she talked about she didn't not understand she has a disability, but then this year, she learned about the term dyslexia and told me "this boy has dyslexia, but I do not know how to describe my disability and I do not know what to do", she began to let her non-school friend know that she has a learning disability, I think, by accepting her deficits, she will better be able to advocate for herself
According to my evaluator, she needs smaller classes and with interaction with the teachers and students, which is what she is getting, but I believe one year is not sufficient, therefore I think another year at the PG school may help. The reason I don't send her to another LD school is that a number of the LD school (say Landmark school, not college) does not accept 12th grader or PG, then I found out the curriculum of the LD school is somewhat limited, they have limited homework, I think it may not prepare her well for college.
At this point, I am thinking of bringing her to DVR, keep Blookdale and Landmark in the radar. She will go to the summer program at Landmark and hopefully she can tell me whether Landmark is suitable for her for 2017, but this will require some scholarship money. I am not too concern on her not able to get into a "regular" college, but the possibility of her dropping out is real.
|
|
|
Post by jisp on May 12, 2016 8:24:25 GMT -5
fc11, I am coming to this discussion a bit late. Sorry I do not check in that frequently anymore. I have not read all the posts as closely as I may like. But from skimming them I would say that your daughter would definitely benefit from taking some time to focus on skills and interests before entering a four year program. If you think community college would work for your child or Landmark that is great. But I also would recommend thinking outside the box. Travel is a great motivator. If your daughter is interested in health care then maybe there is a service trip she could participate in. Do you know any doctors she could shadow for a day or a week. Think about connections you have in your community and how you might use them to assist your daughter. In our experience many times when asked people say "Yes". For our son maturity and skills came from spending time on tall-ships. I know many young people who have grown through this experience. There is something about the structure and the routine and the demands of working a tall ship that help young people with LDs grow up. The same can be true for outdoor programs such as Outward Bound and Nols. Connecting with nature and the environment is often a HUGE motivator for students.
|
|
|
Post by kewpie on May 17, 2016 11:43:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on May 19, 2016 5:37:34 GMT -5
kewpie - do you know whether arrowsmith has a summer program? I could not find it. jisp - your post made me realize that I may have approached her problem incorrectly... BTW, she attended Outward Bound when she was 12 (or 13), I did not see any change.
|
|
|
Post by jisp on May 19, 2016 8:10:08 GMT -5
fc11- When a 12/13 year old goes on an outdoor experience trip such as Outward bound the experience is more akin to a family hiking trip or scouting adventure. The expectations of the adults int he program for what these young teens will do and how they will behave is entirely different than the expectations of somebody on an 18+ trip. Many times we have to allow our older teens and young adults room to fail and room to push themselves to be independent. It is often better done without mom and dad hovering. It is best when older teens and young adults can connect to other adults who do not know their history or their background. Remember although these kids look like adults the brain continues to prune and change well into the early twenties. The difference between a 19 year old and a 22 year old is HUGE.
One thing to consider is the cost of failure. For some kids failing can be a good thing and a motivator for them to jump back in and tackle their issues and problems. But for many failure can cause them to give up entirely and become more passive. Because of that I lean toward better slow and safe than push and rush and fail.
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on May 19, 2016 15:23:21 GMT -5
One thing to consider is the cost of failure. For some kids failing can be a good thing and a motivator for them to jump back in and tackle their issues and problems. But for many failure can cause them to give up entirely and become more passive. Because of that I lean toward better slow and safe than push and rush and fail. This is a major reason I was concerned sending her to college or even attempting county college, I felt that if she drops out, she will just give up.
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on May 19, 2016 15:24:59 GMT -5
I did go back to look into outward bound for this coming summer, but if the choice were between remediation and outward bound, I pick remediation which is what she desperately needs.
|
|
|
Post by kewpie on May 19, 2016 16:18:19 GMT -5
>kewpie - do you know whether arrowsmith has a summer program? I could not find it.<
They are just starting to offer it this summer in some locations BUT it is only for students who are currently or were enrolled in the regular program. The reason they do not offer a stand alone summer program is that there will not be any significant change in that time frame. A student typically needs 6-10 months to see significant changes occur. That said, there is rolling admissions during the school year and one is not committed for an entire year per se, depending on the school. One student I know was enrolled from February till the end of June and that was enough for her to go back to college and do well. She was very bright and a straight A student in High school but it turned out she was an auditory learner but could not hold on to the larger amounts of information required in college. She has returned to college and is doing much better.
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on May 24, 2016 2:34:01 GMT -5
kewpie - I really hope they have a summer program and I am willing to try...The problem is that she will be 18 soon, and she has been working very hard. She had LMB and FFW, she worked extremely hard, we saw the progress, but then when the SD did not use it, she didn't use VV (VV takes time to apply, when the teacher didn't use it, she saw no value). I cannot get her to try as I can see her feeling frustrated.....There is a problem too, the student you mentioned was a straight A student, i.e. the student learns..but DD did, she did not have to skill to learn, she basically shuts down when she said in class....What is working now is the smaller class size with teacher calling her to ask her questions and she begins to learnt to "think" in class.
Outside of the classroom, she is just a normal kid.... I reminded her that she needs the same skill in a classroom which is active learning...but she just so used to shutting down...
At this point, I begin to think may be I get it wrong... many of the colleges and even high school I looked at, they mentioned to teach the kid to advocate, to compensate...but I am looking at remediation...should I be looking for remediation?
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on May 24, 2016 3:12:22 GMT -5
kewpie - I checked some more... DD's daughter is not even as serios as Barbara Arrownsmith-young
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on May 24, 2016 3:18:08 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hsmom on May 28, 2016 23:33:55 GMT -5
I am not only coming in late to this discussion, but I am not on the site regularly anymore. I saw the heading, "college or PG, and what about summer?" I am asking my son who will be a senior next year similar questions, although in his case it's mostly which small liberal arts college? Which has good learning disability services? I have come to know Landmark College better. I know a boy who goes there, and my son's former school has formed a partnership with Landmark and some high school students who are ready to do college-level work take classes there. I think going to their summer program would be a great experience. However, you have an excellent option in New Jersey at Fairleigh Dickinson University. FDU has great support for students with language-based learning disability: view2.fdu.edu/campuses-and-centers/rcsld/And, the Center has a two-week summer program for high school students: view2.fdu.edu/campuses-and-centers/rcsld/summer-experience/I don't have personal experience with FDU nor do I know any student who has attended FDU. However, their name comes up in all guides on colleges for students with learning disability. And, at the college level it's no longer remediation, but knowing which accommodation one needs to take a course and do well.
|
|
|
Post by kewpie on Jun 1, 2016 9:54:02 GMT -5
>At this point, I begin to think may be I get it wrong... many of the colleges and even high school I looked at, they mentioned to teach the kid to advocate, to compensate...but I am looking at remediation...should I be looking for remediation.<
What does her last evaluation show? What are her strengths and weaknesses? Could these areas be addressed by the Arrowsmith program or could they be addressed by accommodations? Advocacy is an extremely important skill but it cannot be learned or applied unless the executive functioning is intact.
My boys also did Fast Forward and it did help them at the time. All my kids did V/V but they got to a certain point (60-90 hours and could not move above it) however they were able to move up in Arrowsmith. My guess is that V/V does not work all the areas of the brain needed.
Food for thought: 1) Accommodations: They are only as good as the weakest area of need. Some students have LDs that can't be met by accommodations.
e.g. Dyslexic 1 can use audiobooks as an accommodation and it works so she will do well in college. Dyslexic 2 has a language and/or auditory processing disorder,and or maybe a short term memory disorder therefore the audiobook would not be a useful accommodation so dyslexic 2 will likely fail.
2) Advocacy: The other piece is does the student understand what accommodations they need and when to ask for them so they can be successful.
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on Jun 3, 2016 0:00:45 GMT -5
thank you. I will come back later as I am preparing for an IEP meeting with the OOD school. hsmom - I visited FDU, DD applied and was accepted, but I think the services are not sufficient... and as I said earlier and may be I am off... I think she needs remediation, not only accommodations...
|
|
|
Post by hsmom on Jun 4, 2016 13:47:02 GMT -5
My understanding of the support give by Regional Center for learning disabilities at FDU is much more than just accommodation. A Learning Specialist works with a student four times a week (one session for each course that the student takes). They also provide counseling as well as accommodation and priority registration. view2.fdu.edu/campuses-and-centers/rcsld/program-details/They have several information sessions coming up should you want to find out more. view2.fdu.edu/campuses-and-centers/rcsld/FDU also has a two year associate degree program at Petrocelli College. view2.fdu.edu/academics/petrocelli-college/associate-degrees/However, your daughter is attending the Landmark Summer Program this summer. I believe she will have a great experience as have dw and glopop's daughters. Being with peers who share similar learning challenges is the first remarkable realization that one is not different from others. I look forward to hearing about what she discovers about herself and the way she learns.
|
|
|
Post by LurkNoMore on Jun 24, 2016 14:20:18 GMT -5
I'm jumping in really late here...my son attended the Landmark Summer Program as a rising junior in 2010 - he had a great experience - mostly socially. He graduated high school in 2012 & attended Landmark - graduated with his AA in December 2014. He grew a lot at Landmark but he probably would have done better if he had been more self motivated to seek extra help - we kept pushing for him to use DCAS (Drake Center for Academic Success) but for some reason he would not. He did meet with his advisor & coach weekly and his professors as needed. He transferred to Marist College in NY for the Spring 2015 semester & will hopefully graduate August 2017. He uses the Special Services Dept. He still has problems with organization & focusing (& getting started on his work/projects) but he has come a long way. I attribute a lot of it to the teaching model at Landmark. He has learned to self-advocate and meet with his professors as needed. His father & I are still more overly involved in his education process than I would like to be but he is close to the end. Each semester we remove a little more of the scaffolding.
The best class my son took at Landmark was a Learning Disability Seminar - the culmination of the class & final project was reflecting on his own test scores. It was eye-opening for all of us.
Good luck to you & your family.
|
|
|
Post by kewpie on Jun 28, 2016 10:28:40 GMT -5
>but he probably would have done better if he had been more self motivated to seek extra help - we kept pushing for him to use DCAS (Drake Center for Academic Success) but for some reason he would not. He did meet with his advisor & coach weekly and his professors as needed.<
You have just described the behavior of my children before the Arrowsmith Program. This is a sign of weakness in the executive Function area of the brain and not a lack of self motivation. Believe me, I learned this the hard way. They don't go because they don't know what to ask for. You are fortunate your son has enough compensatory strengths and his EF issue is not too severe so he can get thru the requirements without the added help. It's great that the adviser, professors and coach were so helpful.
|
|
|
Post by fc11 on Jul 11, 2016 2:21:21 GMT -5
I am going to respond to the other suggestions later.... DD was accepted to Landmark High School Summer Program, we knew it this week, she should have traveled to Landmark today, but she did not want to go as she found a summer job as a camp counselor, she started working two weeks ago, and likes it alot, I decided not to fight with her and let her continue with her job....I am disappointed as I had hoped that it would help her...
|
|