new help deciding - college or PG? what about Summer

[fc11]

Hi Everyone,

I haven't been back for awhile... glad to read many of the old posts....

This is my kid's senior year and I need help deciding for her next year (I know it is kind of late :-( ).

To recap, she had an IEP since 3rd grade and was classified under SLD, due to her deficits were not addressed when she was younger, and despite a 117 IQ, she tends to memorize instead of active listening and learning..when she entered high school 4 years ago, it was difficult for me to address her needs without the SD, the reason being that she has to "study' and do homework, I made the mistake to get the SD to address her needs through the IEP... Finally, I took her OOD in the beginning of senior year, they quickly settled...She is in a special needs school now...and begins to learn...

She has decent GPA, even in the public school, they made sure she got around 3.0. Currently she is accepted by a few small colleges in NJ...Her deficits are mainly listening comprehension, reading comprehension...I think she is not reading at grade level, I anticipate she has difficulty reading psychology 101 text book or understanding accounting 101. Therefore I have been thinking to send her for a gap year in a private boarding school. They promised to provide her 1:1 with a learning consultant, she will be taking English 12. One problem I have with the boarding school is that it operates less than the state's 180 days requirement. School begins in mid-September, and ends before end of May. Given the many holidays in between, I am not sure how many days of learning she will have.

I don't want to hold her back if she is ready for college, but then I am so afraid that when she can't learn in college because she will not have the teachers to babysit her, she will drop out. I looked into some of the colleges which are supposed to provide support, say FDU in NJ, it will be a learning center for her to go and ask for her, but my concern (and experience) is that she does not know what question to ask (she was used to be spoon fed, the public school gave her study guide, and she would study the study guide. When she said she did not understand, the teachers would explain to her)...

Any suggestion on whether I should send her for college or just a Post-graduate as a gap year?

I am also thinking to send her to Landmark's Summer program for high school students (not for entering college)..Does anyone know how good it is ? I think she already knew the study skill and am not sure whether I should send her for three weeks just for writing..

thanks

[healthy11]

I'm wondering if your daughter has ever held a part-time job? Has she indicated what kind of career she'd like to have someday? If she has no clue, then I would definitely not recommend having her attend college at this point.

I'm forgetting all the details of your daughter's situation, but if the Public School District is paying for her out of district placement now and she's finally starting to learn, then I'm wondering, if she doesn't accept a diploma from the Public School District, could she stay at the Special Needs Out of District School for another year? (If she hasn't taken English 12 yet, I can't see how she's met all the High School Graduation Requirements, so you shouldn't have to pay privately for her to take the class at a boarding school, either.)

As far as Landmark's programs, I know glopop11 and dw's children have attended and had very positive things to say, but I don't know if they were enrolled in Summer programs as well as college-level classes...you might send them "private messages" if they don't see this post and respond.

[fc11]

heathy11 - great point, she has no clue on what she wants to do... She would say nursing, which I suspect will be very difficult for her, she got the idea of nursing from her father whom told her she would guarantee to have a job with a nursing degree. She would also say accounting, it was because a friend told her it is easy to get a job.I am planning to send her to volunteer as an EMS for the coming school year so that she can get a feel of the type of work she may encounter if she takes nursing.

Her only part time was coaching as she is a skater, she coached the public program, but I felt that she did not know how to coach as when I watched her, I found out she only taught the kid one way. She used to work one hour a week, and now many substitute for other coaches.

Both DH and my younger daughter recommended her to stay another year as she is not "mature enough", but then they don't deal with her school work, after seeing all her public school friends going to college, it is heart breaking.She met her graduation requirement for high school in the OOD. The problem of staying in the OOD is that because she came from a public school, hence she already finished the required courses. There is no course for her to take if she stays as it is an extremely small school. I mentioned English 12, because even in PG, they are essentially taking the same type of courses as grade 12.

I am not sure whether it is common, I do not see a lot of homework coming from the OOD school, it seems that they were concerned to overwork the kid. I have to remind the teacher to give her reading assignment, otherwise they do not have homework on weekends. Hence, I am not sure how she will survive in college. It is also a reason I do not apply for other OOD school, but more on a private school that provides services and support.

[fc11]

I am reading college board and found many kids have stat lower than her are going to college, and I am leaning to send her for a PG year, what am I missing?

[dw]

Landmark's summer program was a life changer back in the summer of 2010, for my dd who was 21 at the time and had 2 years of college with deteriorating performance. She stayed on at Landmark for an academic year, earned an AA with highest honors, and transferred on to a small liberal arts college with good services, and earned a BA with honors in 2013.
But most importantly, at Landmark, my dd learned the skills she needed to take advantage of the services offered at the transfer college, and really how to cope in any academic setting, and in many aspects of life.

[fc11]

am I right in thinking that in general, if a kid does not know what he/she wants to do, not really picking up what is she is supposed to do, it is beneficial to keep her for a PG year?

[healthy11]

I have been a member of this forum, and others, for over a decade, and I can definitely say that if a child (even without LDs) doesn't know what they want to do for a career, sending them to a 4-year college is likely to be a waste of time and money. If a child HAS LDs in addition to not knowing what they want to do, or how to do it, the chance of them "dropping out" is even higher.

From everything you've said, it sounds like your daughter can certainly benefit from additional academics and training in "learning how to learn." Based on dw's experience, Landmark CAN provide that type of instruction. I don't know if the Boarding School that you want to send her to was recommended by her current ODD school. Is it just for teens with special ed needs?

Another option you might want to consider later is a community college instead of a 4-year school. Community colleges often have strong "Disability Support Departments" and they offer basic classes and degrees like ADN (Associate Degree in Nursing.) www.nursingschools4u.com/3420/adn-programs-in-new-jersey/#context/api/listings/prefilter
If she wanted to get additional training after that, like a RN (Registered Nursing) Degree, she could, but I would take things "one step at a time" and not rush her.

[fc11]

Healthy - thanks for the words of wisdom... fearing of her dropping out is a major and primary concern. I have asked her whether she wants to go to college or a PG year, she really has no preference... she is concerned of the possibility of dropping out, but I am afraid it was because of what I said. She even has no interest in doing a college tour, she has decided on two of the small local colleges. I told her it is all about options, but she has absolutely no interest in seeing any colleges.

Deep in my heart, I think you are right that she needs the additional time... In the case of Landmark, as they taught advocacy skills and I am not sure how helpful it is for her as she has been taught again and again, the problem is that she didn't know how to apply. Say in her current LD school, she told the reading specialist that she should take notes, highlight etc, but then she is not paying attention. One reason I sent her to Landmark is for her to experience Landmark so that she can tell me next year whether she thinks Landmark will be a right place for her. I have been reading review on Landmark, what I read is that while the school is wonderful, but it is largely left to the student to take initiative. The problem with her is that I can see she goes to the learning center to ask for help with a homework, the night before it is due...

As far as nursing, I am not optimistic, from everything I read, she has to take a public exam to be a RN, I felt that she is not capable of studying to pass the exam...hence studying for nursing will be a waste...

My concern of this private school for PG is that they do not operate in 180 days such as a public school, school begins in mid-September and ends before end of May, there were weeks of holiday, I do not know how many days they can learn.

[bros]

She should do what I did - go to a community college. It was very beneficial - they had an excellent disability services department and honestly, the education I got there was better than what I got at the state school I went to (Kean).

At a CC, if you change your major, it isn't really that big a thing - It was 2k a semester where I went, so changing a major was only $2000 lost - which isn't anywhere near as expensive as a four year school.

[fc11]

bros I am so happy you posted. You told me about Brookdale a few years ago, it has always been in my radar.. However, we will likely be in UCC and I do not have a good feeling about the college.. In addition, unlike you, my DD does not have a clue of what she is doing (okay I exaggerate) or what she wants to do. She needs reading and writing... I am concerned with CC where most of the faculty are adjuncts, she would have a very big problem in catching up... the risk of dropping out is real...

[healthy11]

fc11, I would not assume that all community college professors are bad, nor are all 4-year college professors good. There are variations everywhere. Ironically, my husband is now an adjunct professor at our local community college, and he is extraordinarily sensitive to kids with special needs, because he obviously knows the kinds of challenges our son had. From what we've seen, the Disability Departments at Community Colleges are generally more responsive than at most 4-year universities, and they're used to working with a greater percentage of the students who have special needs. In addition, at a community college, your daughter could take just one or two classes each semester, rather than trying to take "a full load" which is normally 12 to 15 credit hours (= 4 or 5 classes).

As far as you being afraid that your daughter might not be able to pass testing to become an RN, if she is interested in the healthcare profession, maybe she could first consider becoming a Nurse's Aide...depending on what type of facility they work in, certification isn't always required: www.nj.gov/health/healthfacilities/nadetail.shtml

[fc11]

healthy - thanks. We have planned for her not to take a full load, but my concern is that she would have problem even with 3 courses. I met with the teachers and the counselor at the OOD school. The teachers confirmed what I have been saying all along, she didn't not know how to ask a question, i.e. she would say "I don't know", instead of specifically saying what she did not know. I explained that it would be a big challenge for her in College, even I can hire tutor, what would I expect a tutor to do. Typically tutor has about an hour to "help" her, when she said she did not know, a tutor would have to start from scratch.

I felt they were pushing for her to go to college, I asked them whether they could guarantee that she will not drop out. I asked them what resources and support she needs, they said that the resources she needs were listed in the IEP. I am just so sick of it.

[healthy11]

From everything you say, I think that Landmark's programs would be much better for your daughter than any other college at this point in time. Glopop11 and dw both feel it was excellent for their daughters. You might also read this older discussion thread: millermom.proboards.com/thread/14121/summer-programs

[dw]

I don't work for Landmark, but I probably sound like I do. Its just that it was such an amazing college for my daughter.
The model at Landmark is definitely NOT leaving students on their own.
After the summer program for college students, which was really intense for a student who never had had effective help to address her issues, dd was motivated to completely change her life and attend the academic program in the fall. She had 2 x a week appts with her advisor, and 2 x a week appts with her ADHD coach, to plan out her homework. In addition, she had lots of tutoring several times a week. Also, the Landmark professors are very accessible, and met with my dtr often. Through these routines, over two semesters, she learned how to meet her academic needs, which is a lot different from being told what she needs to do to meet her needs.

In junior year of HS, dd had an "örganization" tutor, who reviewed all the things she needed to do to accomplish her school work, but she could not carry any of his suggestions out, despite spending about $2K. But in actually DOING the things that help her get her work done, which is part and parcel of the Landmark structure, after doing these things repeatedly, she incorporated these habits into her routine. She was able then to take these habits to the learning center at the transfer college. (graduating at Landmark in 2011, the terminal degree was an AA degree, but now Landmark offers BA and BS degrees.)
DD continued with the same academic coach for the two years at the transfer college, with contact twice a week via skype, to plan out her homework.

My dd's issues do not include comprehension related learning issues, but there are plenty of Landmark students with comprehension issues.
My dd did not know what she wanted to major in. In her first two years of college, she wanted to do environmental science, but the LD's really held her back in achieving in science due to the need to memorize. She also took some of African American history classes, which she recently commented have helped her greatly to enrich her life and understand the world. She did know that she wanted to go to college, and she had always shown an intense desire to learn, and a great curiosity about the world around her.
At Landmark, she decided on business, but found the business intro class really boring, so she ended up with a BA in holistic psychology, and is working in that field now.
She was also able to pursue her interest in ceramics at Landmark, and did a lot of clay throwing there.
I found it most helpful to talk to an admission counselor on the phone, and then attending an open house.
It sounds like a really great sales pitch at the open house, but its the real deal.

[bros]

Apr 28, 2016 11:57:21 GMT -5 fc11 said:

bros I am so happy you posted. You told me about Brookdale a few years ago, it has always been in my radar.. However, we will likely be in UCC and I do not have a good feeling about the college.. In addition, unlike you, my DD does not have a clue of what she is doing (okay I exaggerate) or what she wants to do. She needs reading and writing... I am concerned with CC where most of the faculty are adjuncts, she would have a very big problem in catching up... the risk of dropping out is real...

IF she wants to do a major that UCC doesn't have - she can go to Brookdale at in-county rates ($2500 a semester).

Out of county is $400 a semester.

If she wants to do nursing, it does not appear that UCC offers an Associates in Nursing (http://www.ucc.edu/academics)

Brookdale has an AAS in Nursing that leads directly into a BSN through NJCU - www.brookdalecc.edu/health-sciences-institute/nursing/

Brookdale also has tutors - and their disability services personnel are excellent. from what I heard from Kean students about UCC, it is not a very good school - it was very out of date.

[fc11]

thank you all. I was so upset in the last few days after meeting with the OOD teachers and for them to meet with DD.
I met with them asking for what services DD needs for college. I have outlined that she has a problem with listening and reading comprehension and they mainly agreed. However, they began to play to blame game that I made the decision to keep DD for another year... I am not going to go into as it is upsetting... Then they asked me whether they should continue to work with DD on the pros and cons, I said, okay. Then the next day, when I picked up DD, she was happy and announced that she would attend a local state college... I asked how she came to the conclusion, she said, her teacher "worked" with her on the pros and cons. Well,
a. she received support in HS, and she will receive support in college, hence it will be the same (But what support? is it the same support?)
b. then she said if she did not go to boarding for the other school on PG, it would make no difference from her current SLD school, but she can stay in the dorm in college (Hello, have they looked into letting a teenager who has struggled to stay in the dorm is a good idea?)

the teacher told her she has a tendency to take the easy way out (she didn't know the answer and dragged on till the bell rings), therefore all she needs is to take the challenge to work harder..
I was angry for so many days...

bros - Thanks for confirming about UCC, it was my initial reason for having doubts about county college. I began to look into Brookdale ever since you told me a few years ago.

dw and healthy - I re-read posts from dw and glopop11. The concern I have is that DD's disability is different, she can come out of a classroom, not knowing what was taught in the last. It was difficult for her to think in a classroom situation, I think it was because she used to shutting down when she did not understand, hence it is difficult for her to know what question to ask and how to ask question. Her common approach is "I don't know" which essentially means "I do not know anything covered, please explain to me again", then she would pick the key words for her homework...which is a problem for college.

Luckily I do not need the teachers' approval, but I do not see how they think going to college is best for her.
BTW, I told DD even Malia Obama took a gap year...what is there to lose?

[healthy11]

Have you spoken to anyone at Landmark yet? While your daughter and dw's and glopop11's may not all have the same LDs, Landmark has students with MANY different issues. They should be able to tell you if they have dealt with other young adults like your daughter, and what types of services they have in place to assist students like her.

Without a clear career goal in mind, I definitely think a gap year is preferable than sending your daughter to any 4-year college. While still living at home, maybe she could volunteer, like at www.barnabashealth.org/Jersey-City-Medical-Center/Volunteer.aspx or get a part-time job as a nurse's aide, AND register to take one class at a community college, to get a better idea of what a college classroom environment as well as "adult life" is like.

[fc11]

I do plan for her to volunteer at EMS (a first Aid squad), she already has her first aid and CPR...I think it will give her an idea on whether she likes the medical field..
I plan to send her to Landmark's Summer program, but probably with the high school not the college..hopefully by the end of summer, both DD and Landmark can tell whether Landmark is a good fit.
You are right and I am leaning to have her take an extra year...Now, I just have to undo what the teachers told her...she was upset when I began to question the teachers' suggestions...Then tonight when I brought it up during dinner table, my younger one also question how the teacher could say that "you have support in HS and you have support in college", hence they will be the same...Obviously it is a different type of support.

[healthy11]

It is important to know that not only is the type of support different from H.S. to college, but the level of support can differ greatly from one college to another. In my son's case, he already knew what he wanted to study. We visited a number of colleges, and picked a small private university with a good reputation in his major, in part because we thought he could get more individualized support from their Disability Department. The experienced Disability Chairperson, who seemed very understanding, told us that she herself had ADHD. She said that she'd act as a "surrogate mom" to the freshmen, and follow up/encourage them to use accommodations, etc. Unfortunately, she quit unexpectedly and the college hired a CLUELESS replacement right before school began in August. The new coordinator didn't do any of the things that were promised, and my son really struggled. (He also had a lousy faculty advisor who didn't help with selecting courses, and a roommate with a substance abuse problem.) After two years, my son decided to transfer to a different state university, and that's where he eventually graduated from. At the second university, the only accommodation he regularly used was extended time for taking tests.

I'm telling you the above story not to scare you, but to point out that services can change from year to year, even at the same school. I don't know for sure if the teachers for Landmark's summer program are the same as during their regular semesters (maybe dw or glopop11 can tell you) but in general, I think you are smart to have your daughter try Landmark, and do volunteer work as well. All the best to you and your daughters! Keep us posted!

[fc11]

thank you. I was honestly furvious when the OOD teacher told DD that she received support in HS and she will receive support in college, hence there is no difference...

[healthy11]

fc11, I understand your being upset, but without having been present when the OOD teacher spoke to your daughter, it's hard to know exactly what was said. Your daughter gave you a brief statement. She may have misinterpreted what the teacher told her, or only remembered the part that she wanted to hear, about supports being available in both high school and college. Here's a website that briefly tries to explain the differences between HS and college: www.thinkcollege.net/topics/highschool-college-differences
(Be sure to click on all the different menu tabs, for legal protection, advocacy, and individual education plans and supports)

[bros]

May 2, 2016 15:48:19 GMT -5 fc11 said:

thank you all. I was so upset in the last few days after meeting with the OOD teachers and for them to meet with DD.
I met with them asking for what services DD needs for college. I have outlined that she has a problem with listening and reading comprehension and they mainly agreed. However, they began to play to blame game that I made the decision to keep DD for another year... I am not going to go into as it is upsetting... Then they asked me whether they should continue to work with DD on the pros and cons, I said, okay. Then the next day, when I picked up DD, she was happy and announced that she would attend a local state college... I asked how she came to the conclusion, she said, her teacher "worked" with her on the pros and cons. Well,
a. she received support in HS, and she will receive support in college, hence it will be the same (But what support? is it the same support?)
b. then she said if she did not go to boarding for the other school on PG, it would make no difference from her current SLD school, but she can stay in the dorm in college (Hello, have they looked into letting a teenager who has struggled to stay in the dorm is a good idea?)

the teacher told her she has a tendency to take the easy way out (she didn't know the answer and dragged on till the bell rings), therefore all she needs is to take the challenge to work harder..
I was angry for so many days...

bros - Thanks for confirming about UCC, it was my initial reason for having doubts about county college. I began to look into Brookdale ever since you told me a few years ago.

dw and healthy - I re-read posts from dw and glopop11. The concern I have is that DD's disability is different, she can come out of a classroom, not knowing what was taught in the last. It was difficult for her to think in a classroom situation, I think it was because she used to shutting down when she did not understand, hence it is difficult for her to know what question to ask and how to ask question. Her common approach is "I don't know" which essentially means "I do not know anything covered, please explain to me again", then she would pick the key words for her homework...which is a problem for college.

Luckily I do not need the teachers' approval, but I do not see how they think going to college is best for her.
BTW, I told DD even Malia Obama took a gap year...what is there to lose?

Make sure that she signs up with the Department of Vocational Rehabilitation - they can help pay for tuition for 8 semesters. If they pay for a few while she is seeing what might fit her, hey, at least the state is footing all (or some of) the bill.

[healthy11]

Bros, should Vocational Rehab be mentioned/documented in her daughter's transition plan?

[bros]

May 3, 2016 20:38:03 GMT -5 healthy11 said:

Bros, should Vocational Rehab be mentioned/documented in her daughter's transition plan?

Yes. they should be brought in at the latest, the student's junior year of HS.

However, in NJ, districts like to delay - so they should bring in DVR for the final IEP meeting, which my DVR counselor was very annoyed at my district for not doing.

[healthy11]

Since fc11's daughter is at an out-of-district placement and apparently a senior who will graduate in a month or so, what can she expect to happen? (Can an IEP meeting with the regular public school and vocational rehab representative be scheduled at this late date?) Can her daughter go to a vocational rehabilitation office herself and apply for benefits, if the high school IEP team does nothing?

[fc11]

healthy - thanks for the link.
bros - how do I go about signing for the DVR? how does it work?
BTW, one thing I have been thinking and kind of unexpected...as you know in NJ, there is NJStar which will pay for county college's tuition for 2 years if she graduates in the top 10% (or 15% ) of the class, given the ODD school has about 12 kids in senior, there may be a remote possibility for her to qualify for NJstar if going to county college is an option. I have checked and they allow defer etc..I wasn't too keen initially was because I was cocnerned with learning in my county's college, but now that you brought up UCC does not have nursing, and she can technically takes the course in Brookdale.. I will take another look at NJstar.

[bros]

May 4, 2016 13:35:07 GMT -5 healthy11 said:

Since fc11's daughter is at an out-of-district placement and apparently a senior who will graduate in a month or so, what can she expect to happen? (Can an IEP meeting with the regular public school and vocational rehab representative be scheduled at this late date?) Can her daughter go to a vocational rehabilitation office herself and apply for benefits, if the high school IEP team does nothing?

She can go without the school - that is what I had to do.

May 4, 2016 22:00:44 GMT -5 fc11 said:

healthy - thanks for the link.
bros - how do I go about signing for the DVR? how does it work?
BTW, one thing I have been thinking and kind of unexpected...as you know in NJ, there is NJStar which will pay for county college's tuition for 2 years if she graduates in the top 10% (or 15% ) of the class, given the ODD school has about 12 kids in senior, there may be a remote possibility for her to qualify for NJstar if going to county college is an option. I have checked and they allow defer etc..I wasn't too keen initially was because I was cocnerned with learning in my county's college, but now that you brought up UCC does not have nursing, and she can technically takes the course in Brookdale.. I will take another look at NJstar.

NJ STARS is top 15% of the class - www.njstars.net/

She can take the whole program at BCC and transfer to whatever school they have an agreement with for a BA (automatically accepted to the school for the BA if she completes the BCC program)

Here is the info for DVR - jobs4jersey.com/jobs4jersey/jobseekers/disable/index.html

Union County's office is:

ELIZABETH (Union)

921 Elizabeth Ave., 3rd Floor 07201

MYRNA PINCKNEY, Manager

PAT WILLIAMS, Supervisor

908-965-3940


jobs4jersey.com/jobs4jersey/documents/DVRS/DVRSFieldOfficeContactListWithBackups.pdf the list of offices in case you need it

[fc11]

Bros - she does not have a physical disability, what can DVR help her? I am going through the web page, it seems to cover everything ..

[bros]

May 5, 2016 2:35:47 GMT -5 fc11 said:

Bros - she does not have a physical disability, what can DVR help her? I am going through the web page, it seems to cover everything ..

They cover learning disabilities. I know that at my first appointment with them, I listed off my disabilities and they said "Just based on your learning disabilities alone you would've qualified for us."

So unless our lovely governor had them change their rules in the last few years... yeah.

Since I believe DVR is covered by the ADA, which covers LDs

[fc11]

by what exactly do I expect to receive help on? Do I need to bring an IEP? will they assist in finding work? say volunteer work as a nurse' aide?