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Post by 2remem on Oct 31, 2011 13:12:32 GMT -5
Healthy11-I agree. It works for me too. I actually do our business accounting with headphones and familiar music.
DS said only trace style music works for studying/homework. If there are lyrics he gets distracted.
I was mentioning how he learns lyrics to songs easily which is contrary to his testing and bet it has to do with the music aspect hence trance music w/o lyrics helps him learn & do schoolwork.
Thanks for the article. Going to read now.
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Post by SharonF on Oct 31, 2011 13:18:06 GMT -5
2remem--
I hope the meeting with the school went well today.
A couple more thoughts. I paid for both of my kids' CAPD testing. As others have said, schools rarely have developmental audiologists on staff to administer the comprehensive testing required. Sounds like you've got some good specialists. For others--make sure that CAPD testing is done by a developmental audiologist, not a run-of-the-mill audiologist who specializes in hearing loss in elderly adults.
You mentioned how long it takes for your son to do math homework. Does he have trouble understanding or remembering the concepts and strategies? Or does he just get overwhelmed and burned out by the effort involved with homework? His WJ math scores are fine. But WJ is not the best indicator of high school math ability. Key Math is another, more thorough test.
HOWEVER--I think there is a pattern here. Stronger verbal, weak nonverbal, poor handwriting, weak visual processing...often traits of Nonverbal Learning Disability. And NLDers often have trouble with math. Even basic calculation. Especially more complex stuff like algebra or any multi-step problem.
How is your son's reading comprehension? I see the WJ, but I'm wondering how his reading comprehension is in real life. Does he comprehend well from text books? How are his inferencing skills? How's his literary analysis ability (compare, contrast, explain the author's intent...)? Does he like fiction? Fantasy? Or prefer nonfiction?
You've noted his difficulty with both handwriting and expressing his thoughts in writing. I think the TOWL would be very helpful.
My dd is a really interesting mix of NLD, CAPD and ADHD-inattentive type. The school did not make any of those diagnoses. The school's testing said she did not qualify for an IEP. But we had dd tested by a developmental audiologist, then a developmental neuropsychologist. And that's how we finally got a clearer picture of dd's unique learning profile.
This is what that NLD/CAPD/ADHD-in combination looked like for her:
NLD: very weak math, abstract reasoning and higher-order reading comprehension skills. Very strong basic reading (rate, fluency) skills. Over reliance on rote memory. Difficulty with applying already-learned information in new ways.
CAPD: Could not learn from lectures. Could not listen and take notes at the same time. Could not understand the teacher's words if there were any auditory distractions in the room. Had trouble figuring out the the main points from a lecture she heard or a passage she read. When she was younger (we realized it was a problem at about age 10), she could not "hear" the difference between similar sounding words. But she has extremely sensitive hearing and can hear whispering, dog whistles, and other things most people cannot hear.
ADHD-inattentive type: Trouble paying attention. Easily fatigued by learning, homework or testing. However, she has no trouble paying attention if the learning is hands on. Slower processing speed and some teachers called her a "slow learner." (Audiologist told us 90% of people with CAPD also have ADHD, usually inattentive type. But most people with ADHD do not have CAPD.)
IEP: started in 7th grade with an IEP for Speech-Language Impaired due to CAPD. Didn't help much, other than SLP's 1:1 help with listening comprehension. Changed to an IEP for Other Health Impaired for ADHD-in in 9th grade. Most of her goals were for math. Some bumpy times but she found her stride in high school. Mainly because she is so determined and works incredibly hard.
ADHD meds have also helped her. No cure...but they allowed her to maintain concentration so that she could address her other difficulties.
Her handwriting is still very difficult to read. Thank goodness that kids today can keyboard and text. So I don't consider her handwriting to be a problem. And her CAPD is mostly a non-issue now.
She is in her 3rd year of college and doing very well. No accoms or special treatment for her disabilities. Double major in sports medicine and kinesiology. And we were told in 8th grade she was not college material.
We also have a 22-year old son who had an IEP. He sounds a lot like your daughter--stronger nonverbal skills, weaker verbal skills. Lousy rapid naming. Like our dd, our ds also has severe CAPD. He's a terrible speller and slow reader but loves literature that is very deep. Otherwise, he's very visual and hands on. He was easily bored/zoned out in school but we were told he does not have ADHD. He got through two years of college but didn't stick with it. College did not fit his learning style.
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Post by caniacfan on Oct 31, 2011 13:40:42 GMT -5
I don't have any great advice but just wanted to say that my dd is pretty much a clone of SharonF's daughter. Same issues, same difficulties, same diagnoses. My dd also takes ADHD meds which help with focus. She wasn't diagnosed with anything until high school and we did all of our testing privately. After testing we were able to get her a 504 Plan. Something else that plagued my dd was anxiety (stemming from her difficulties because of her learning issues). Her anxiety decreased once we addressed her issues and she received accommodations from the school. She is currently a freshman in college, receiving accommodations at her college, and doing very well. Some of her testing results are very similar to your son's.
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Post by bros on Oct 31, 2011 14:44:18 GMT -5
I listen to music while doing readings for classes on the train.
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Post by 2remem on Oct 31, 2011 15:09:43 GMT -5
2 hours until meeting. I am west coast so meeting is at 3pm. I promise to tell all when I get back.
Healthy11 - Read the article and comments. I think that is a perfect example for my son. Hebrew came easier because of music and immersion and that is why Arabic will not be too difficult except the written language. He wants to take Latin as we believe for the romantic languages and his vocabulary it will be a boon. Plus he loves Renaissance history including Art history.
That's probably why he learns better overall with non lyric music.
SharonF - Your daughter sounds very similar to my son. My son could not write nor read a word until 1st grade and then within 2 months was reading 150 words a minute. HE really compensated for his disability for years and got great grades schoolwise though could not write a paper on his own. He needs prompting.
With Algebra, I taught him as he was home schooled then. It was very difficult. He could not do the steps and though we went over it time and time again on a whiteboard, he always needed prompting and reassurance. It is the same today. His tutor said he doesn't have the confidence. I explained his LD a bit and now he sees what I see. I have to say though, now problems that were so difficult for him before are pretty easy no for him. He amazed me how quickly he did so Algebra at the beginning of the year, but then again, he has always done math in his head since the beginning. Simple Algebra probs he does mentally, multi step ones get harder because they must be written out. If you give him the question and the answer and ask how you get that answer, he can do it better. He does scribbles on the side instead of steps.
In terms of his reading comprehension, I believe it's very high. Scantron testing in 7th & 8th grade consistently show a stronger fiction to non fiction understanding. Long passage is extremely high next to the fiction at 98% with non fiction 97%.
Keep in mind this kid had really no schooling after 1st grade. Then home schooled by himself in 7th & 8th. Math is all over the place on state tests. High one year in one thing, next year low. State testing- 7th grade- This was hard year. First year home schooling, he had appendicitis, tracheitis, ear infections, DH massive heart attack and my mother in law passed away and we were out of the country for 6 weeks of the school year. 91% Word analysis & vocabulary 78% Reading comprehension 77% Literary response 63% Writing conventions 88% Writing strategies 50% Writing Application score wrote less than the 500 words required. He said, " Did I get my point across? Yes? Then why write fluff words? Less is better."
8th grade- Was out of country during school year for 3 weeks due to death right before testing. 63% Word analysis & vocabulary 83% Reading comprehension 93% Literary response 94% Writing conventions 76% Writing strategies
9th grade - 100% reading comprehension, Word analysis & vocabulary development. 88% Literary response 69% Writing conventions 90% Writing strategies
Oh Healthy11 - Need to say that DD has learned spelling through sing song. She cannot see the words, but does verbally with intonations in a type of sing song. When it's time to write, we continue that with each letter written. It has make a breakthrough for a child that could only read 7 wpm in the middle of 1st grade. With her it is interesting because though she has same issues as DS with handwriting, she loves to draw, and was holding a pencil correctly at a very young age. To me, her fine motor skills as a toddler were very advanced. Hers may lean more towards Dyslexia with a hint of dysgraphia.
I've got my hands full teaching different ways to 2 kids still not knowing what is good and what is not. With DD I have found good things, DS, we are still trying to figure that out.
DS gets burnout and sick over it all. Once he hits overload, he's done. Too much is not good for him. He needs breaks often. DD can do a week's worth of homework in a night, no complaints even if it's late. Parents at her school complain about the homework, I don't get it.
DS doesn't know how to start assignments, has not concept of time, remembers things after he is in bed, is a computer whiz, though typing is still hard at times. He knows about drugs inside and out (don't ask) thanks to health class, he's probably the only kid that loved the class and can tell you all he learned and came home talking about it and researched deeper into everything taught in the class. No joke. Like to the point of how the chemicals breakdown, what part of the brain is affected most, body functions etc. Same with the nutrition part.
I have to say something I did notice, once he wants something or something is of interest, he won't shut up about it. This past year and especially the last several months it has been drugs. Including what's in my medicine cabinet. It's too much for us that it is scary especially for DH. I get worried about him doing drugs and have confronted him, but he says I'm crazy because with what he knows, it would be suicide to do them. He's not that stupid, he says. He wants control over himself at all times.
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Post by 2remem on Oct 31, 2011 15:17:25 GMT -5
caniacfan - I see a lot of similarities also with my son. He has a 504 plan, but in part it is not being followed and things that were supposed to be on it, are not. Thing is, until I have a sit down with each teacher to see where the problem may be in each class, I don't think I can get a clear picture of what he needs. I need to know their teaching style also. I do know certain things, but in Algebra 2 and English Honors, it is just out of control and he's out to sea with no land in sight. He doesn't know what's wrong in those classes other than something about homework in Algebra though he does it and everything in English as he calls his teacher, "The Wall". That says it all.
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 31, 2011 15:34:46 GMT -5
"I have to say something I did notice, once he wants something or something is of interest, he won't shut up about it. " I imagine you know that perseverating and dwelling on a particular topic, especially if it goes on for an extended period (ie, months at a time) and not recognizing that others may have "had enough," can be an indication of an autism spectrum issue, like Asperger's. It may be worth considering... Here's one young adult's views: aspectsofaspergers.wordpress.com/tag/perseveration/
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Post by 2remem on Oct 31, 2011 15:57:44 GMT -5
Healthy11- I know, that's why I mentioned it. Just in case. I want to get to the bottom of the issue so laying all the cards out is the only way.
Autism is in my family x2 possibly 3. DS is not super bad, but enough that it is noticeable and also if you say something that trigger it like that person's face looks like she did drugs, then he'll tell you exactly what it could have been and he goes on. Haven't seen any other signs and I've been exposed to Autism quite a bit so I'll read up to make sure I am not just blinded.
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Post by 2remem on Nov 1, 2011 3:07:59 GMT -5
SharonF-I keep coming back to your post. There is so much to think about. I do think there is a lot of similarities to my DS. I had to print it out along with a couple others as you all have given me so much to think about and absorb.
I am developing a clearer picture of what we are looking at or what it could be. I know nothing about ADHD/ADD besides the basics most people know. CAPD, I've been reading a lot about. Though he fits pretty darn good there, there are still lose pieces.
Healty11- Thought about the Asperger's, read up on Autism spectrum and have to say no, doesn't fit my son and while we lived all together with my family until DS was 5 years old with 2 with autism, there is absolutely no sign except he talks sometimes excessively on a subject. Then again, like this situation, I am so obsessed with getting to the bottom of it and doing what's right that my husband has made it clear he's had enough, but I can't stop. Maybe not exactly the same, but maybe he's researching and learning and wants to share and honestly as a child and even now, you tell him stop and he just doesn't hear you. This has happened many times where after the fact he's like, "Why did you get angry?". "Well, we told you to stop 10 times." "No you didn't. I only heard you once", he says. Had meeting. Very surprised that English teacher(real adversion to my son) and Chem teacher at meeting.
Of course, English teacher complained about his work ethic, writing ability and lack of drive in written work. He wants clear well thought out paragraphs and essays. Ha! Ha!
Chem teacher said DS knows his stuff, just needs to work on the test issue. Yeah, how? She's been really good but still expects notes to be handed in for grade.
Well, a few more minor accommodations were given. He can walk out of class w/o permission at any time if overwhelmed. Cannot be marked down on late homework. Give additional time on classwork, not just homework as needed. Can stay after class, give teacher organizer to write homework down for him & teacher must give him pass to next class if he's late.
There are a couple more but I need to listen to the tape to hear them again.
His original 504: extra time on tests including SAT/ACT Extra time on homework Work can be done computer instead of by hand Provide notes
I am still not completely happy. I think he should not be marked down when writing for messiness, misspellings, poor drawing etc. Should be given assistive technology ------------------------------------------ In never had a chance to post this because of all the kids at my door for candy. Since then, not good developments for us. Tonight DS had a bit of a breakdown in a way I have never seen. I was saying goodnight after a long day for him and all of a sudden he began to panic. He realized that there is an important assignment due tomorrow in English. Then he can't find his book to do the assignment and it's 12am already. He breaks down and started hitting himself in the head and calling himself stupid. I am so beside myself right now and don't want him to go to school tomorrow like this, but don't want him to run away either. I am so confused. My loving little boy doesn't even understand what is going on with himself and sat through our meeting today saying " I can write, I can do it", refusing to believe different. He can't understand why he can't and neither do I enough to truly help him yet. I left a message this morning for the school psychologist and cried my way through explaining what happened. Why? I don't know. She knows him and me and came to the meeting out of caring for DS not because she had to. I want to keep him out of school, but he'll fall further behind which will only stress him out more. I hate this.
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Post by SharonF on Nov 1, 2011 7:10:22 GMT -5
2remem--
Nonverbal Learning Disability is also on the Autism Spectrum.
Some people have pretty classic Autism. Or pretty classic Aspergers. But on this message board, I've run across a lot of people (or their kids) who simply have TRAITS from the Spectrum. Not classic anything. And they tend to fall through the cracks because they don't fit the stereotype for any Spectrum disorder.
It's very possible that your son is one of those people with Spectrum traits...higher verbal than nonverbal (but some interesting quirks with language development in his early years), some motor difficulties, some problems or at least inconsistencies with math, and extreme interest in certain topics, often science-related.
Most people with Spectrum traits also have ADHD traits. For your son, that could include trouble getting started on homework and needing guidance through the steps (executive planning/function) and quickly reaching academic fatigue while doing homework. (processing speed and working memory issues.)
You mentioned what you know about ADHD/ADD is what most people know. Sad to say, most people think ADHD is about hyperactivity and lack of self-discipline. Most people, including many teachers, do not realize that ADHD is a chemical imbalance in the brain. ADHD is not a behavior disorder. In someone who has ADHD, the neurotransmitters that carry information from brain cell to brain cell just disappear on their journey. The brain cells struggle with incomplete or inconsistent stream of information carried by neurotransmitters. The result is the behaviors. That's what people see, so that's what people assume is ADHD. But the behaviors are not the cause of ADHD. The chemical imbalance (vanishing neurotransmitters) is the cause of ADHD. (The term "ADHD" is used to refer to all types. The term ADD is no longer used by the medical community.)
Teachers who blame kids for poor work ethic are usually teachers who do not understand the true cause and effects of ADHD, do not understand executive function difficulties, and do not understand slow processing speed. They see that a kid is not using his potential and assume the kid is simply not trying. Those same teachers often accuse the parents of enabling their kid to be lazy. Been there, had that thrown in my face way too often.
Does your son have any sensory sensitivities, such as being overly sensitive to light or texture (such as tags in his shirts) or sounds? Or did he as a young child? Conversely, some on the Spectrum crave sensory stimulation. Those folks tend to love very spicy food, or loud and intense sounds, or intense smells, or rollercoasters, or scary movies or lots of flashing lights.
Having one or two Spectrum traits doesn't put a person on the Spectrum. Instead, a trained neuropsych or psych looks for patterns...the number of Spectrum traits, the intensity of those traits, and how they affect the person's everyday life.
One other thought...your son's panic attack over a forgotten homework assignment may be nothing. But it strikes a deep concern in me. My son hit an academic brick wall in 6th grade, started failing classes, and teachers all accused him of being lazy, etc. They refused an IEP.
He became suicidal. I don't think he really wanted to kill himself. But he didn't want to live anymore. He couldn't see a way out of his struggles. He knew I was stressed out because the school had refused an IEP and refused to cooperate. He blamed himself for everything. He never said any of this to us; we learned it later.
We began taking him to a counselor who specialized in helping young adults and had a background in helping kids with learning challenges. At first our son refused to go, then he would just sit there and refused to talk to the counselor. But she was amazing. After about a month, our son started asking when his next appointment was. He still struggled with some things in school. But a couple years of counseling really did help him with the emotional challenges.
I don't want to worry you. But your son sounds like a deep thinker with deep emotions. He is frustrated that he cannot meet the academic demands placed on him. He doesn't want to let you down. Or his teachers down. But he's not sure how to find success.
You are doing ALL you can...and then some! You are trying to work with the school to empower your son's success. But all of this takes a toll on your emotions. And your son's emotions. Counseling may help. Just a thought.
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Post by healthy11 on Nov 1, 2011 7:21:14 GMT -5
((hugs)) I know it won't change things, but it may help to know that most of us have gone through periods like you're dealing with now. I definitely have, and that includes having my husband try to tell me to "drop the matter." I couldn't then, and I still can't, although the situation has improved from when we first were starting out and trying to determine what our son's difficulties were. Unfortunately, you're apt to find that few children are an "exact fit" to the descriptions that are given for various disabilities, and that always leads to more feelings of doubt...Realize that no two children are the same, and even though they may both have the same condition, they may have different degrees and combinations of "symptoms." In other words, there are likely to be "pieces that don't quite fit," and that's where it helps to have experienced professionals involved in making a diagnosis. SharonF has used the term "bits and pieces" kinds of children, because all the pieces of the puzzle don't cleanly fit. It can make the situation more confusing, but it's not impossible to deal with. At some point, the focus really does have to be on what issues a student is struggling with, and what can be done to help them in the learning process, regardless of what you call it. In your original post, you mentioned that you think your son is having anxiety attacks and becoming depressed. Has he seen a psychiatrist or other doctor about that? I think that it would be good to do. I hesitate to rely on the school psychologist alone, and if your son is at a really low point, he might benefit from medication, which school psychologists can't prescribe. For the time being, I think it might help your son to remind him that he does have an accommodation of extra time for class and homework (so the English project can be turned in later, without being marked as late, and the work can be done by computer instead of by hand.) Do you have an appointment for his CAPD evaluation yet? It may also reassure your son to be reminded that EVERY person has some things they do better than others, (ie, not every kid can be a good athlete or as good at video games as the next kid, no matter how hard they try) but you know he's not stupid, and you're working to get a better understanding of his learning strengths and weaknesses. Hang in there! P.S. It appears I was composing my reply at the same time as SharonF; if certain things sound repetitious, that's why....
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Post by beth on Nov 1, 2011 7:59:57 GMT -5
Rhythm is integral to being able to learn. Several therapy approaches, specifically Interactive Metronome and Neuronet, rely on keeping time and balance to achieve results. My son who also has bits and pieces of different LDs made tremendous progress with them. At first, it only helped his motor coordination which was no small feat.
Beth
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Post by hsmom on Nov 1, 2011 9:33:23 GMT -5
SharonF wrote: "I would like to see more visual-motor integration testing such as the Beery or Bender Gestalt. There is a definite pattern of difficulty with processing certain types of visual information, from his WISC PRI to his Visual Discrimination, Form Constancy, Design Memory and Visual Memory." And, I agree. My son's Block Design score was the lowest subset score on the WISC. The Block Design assesses the ability to analyze and reproduce abstract designs from an illustrated stimulus model and his neuropsych commented, "He seemed to struggle with the visual-motor demands of this task, particularly as the designs became more complex." He also had a very low VMI score on which she commented, ... "his planning and attention to detail were poor, consequently he had careless mistakes. Results are suggestive of difficulties with motor planning." SharonF also said: But we had dd tested by a developmental audiologist, then a developmental neuropsychologist. And that's how we finally got a clearer picture of dd's unique learning profile. A good neuropsychologist can go over all of the testing that has already been done, look at any other reports, listen to the parent's concerns, decide what other tests s/he will need to do for a complete evaluation, and explain what all the scores mean after the evaluation. My son's neuropsychologist, too, was invaluable in giving us a clearer picture of his complex learning profile.
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Post by jw on Nov 1, 2011 10:01:25 GMT -5
Hi,
My son has anxiety, and honestly it is a bigger challenge for us than his ADHD. CAPD, writing issues and everything else combined. As my son put it the other day, when his ADHD is acting up, he can still get work done, just slower than usual, but if he is having an anxiety attack he can't do anything at all. My ds has also had freakouts/meltdowns like your son did last night. All I can do when that happens is try to talk him through it. In your case, you have the added help that he gets extra time on homework and won't get marked down. That may help when you are trying to talk him through it.
When my ds is having severe anxiety, it helps him to do something else - warm bath or shower, maybe even a walk around the block with me. But to be honest, he also takes two meds for his anxiety, and without the help of his psychiatrist and the medication he would have a really hard time functioning. Cognitive behavior therapy also is suppoed to work wonders, but I haven't found anyone in our area to work with.
My son has terrible problems with writing - writer's block, getting started is hard, difficulty with punctuation, handwriting is physically difficult for him, etc. But he actually is a great writer when he is able to get his thoughts on paper - very creative and with a unique voice and vivid descriptions. Sometimes he dictates to me, since the problems seem to be getting the thoughts on paper rather than coming up with the ideas in the first place. The voice recognition software is getting better all the time, too, so that is another way for your ds to feel independent if his problems are like my son's.
I hope things are better today!
Good luck, jw
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Post by SharonF on Nov 1, 2011 10:25:36 GMT -5
hsmom re-emphasized additional visual-motor integration testing.
Another good test for that is Grooved Pegboard. No paper/pencil involved. it measures visual processing and manual dexterity.
As healthy and others have said, the purpose of these tests is not necessarily a medical diagnosis. It's a better understanding of what's hard for him..and why.
Schools usually don't do in-depth testing because their typical goal is determining if a student qualifies for special services. As a parent, I found it wound up being my responsibility to get the additional testing to show what TYPE of services would be most beneficial and why.
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Post by jw on Nov 1, 2011 12:02:45 GMT -5
Hi again,
On the anxiety issue, I had another thought. For my ds, we decided to treat his anxiety because it was a daily issue - he would come home from school every day and cry for hours, so it wasn't an occasional thing for him. For teen boys, it isn't out of the question for them to have outbursts when they are feeling overwhelmed, even when they are not kids with LDs. I've heard stores from friends with seemingly normal, high achieving kids that woud surprise you!
Good luck, jw
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Post by 2remem on Nov 1, 2011 14:36:24 GMT -5
I've writing this post on & off for hours. Between phone calls, rereading posts and trying to find what next to do has been NOT overwhelming. It has been uplifting. So... Thank you all so very much. I was afraid to write what happened last night, but knowing I we are not completely lost by hearing from you all do truly give me strength. I am not relying on the school to do what needs to be done and school psych, did tell me he was not in school enough to get an accurate view of what is really happening in the classroom. She just called me and is going to talk to DS today just to get him through the day and also notified his English teacher about him not having homework. What bothers me the most is how she knows what he is going through, knows what he can and can't do yet, like everyone says, not enough gets done. I started looking for a neuropsychologist around here and school will provide outside psych help at their expense and not through county system. New law passed 7/1. Hours later: Made appt with Ann Simun PsyD. Types of tests performed: Neuropsychological, Psycho-educational Assessment and Advocacy, ADHD Assessment, Learning Disabilities, Neurological Conditions, Developmental Delay, and Autism Spectrum Disorders. Did I start with right person?? After phone call, I found out they have worked with school district before. Mada appt. regardless of IEE request because they are very busy and said probably would waive fee for now because IEE request has been sent. They told me to wait on the CAPD testing right now until after first consult. WHEW. ---------------------- In terms of sensitivities: None really. Likes louder music, but that I believe it is still a hold over from brain not registering sound level. He finally speaks in normal voice after 12+ years of being overly loud. He never looks at things differently or in a way that I think would classify his view in the spectrum. Likes spicier food, roller coasters are ok, but never thrilled like my nephew who is autistic. No one thing or another that interests him to a point that I say it's a hobby, obsession, or anything else. He loves many things, but cannot seem to complete or follow through with anything. My son is definately deeper thinker, hear lyrics from songs that really strike him. He will listen to a song just for a verse or two because how deep or meaningful it is. He has always been in touch with his and other's emotions until a few years ago where a couple incidents made him mask some emotions. We are very open family, but DH I think is one reason DS hides a bit. He is very in touch with our emotions. They affect him greatly. Family sicknesses and deaths were very traumatic to him, but we made sure he was involved with everything instead of shielding him so that he had the same coping environments and involvement we had. You all hit the nail on the head. With it all. I cannot tell you how hard and long I cried last night. I cannot tell you when I last cried. I don't. Not because I hide emotion, just I usually start looking for answers first or confront the reason for the emotion and deal with it logically. This is the first time I felt totally out of control. It makes it harder with 2 kids having LD's and myself with major health issues too. If anyone knows a different neuropsychologist in Los Angeles that I should contact, please let me know. We had IEP and 504 done together originally. Denied SpecEd. though I am not sure if it is good for DS anyway. School psychologist asked me if I was looking to put DS in SpecEd. I was taken aback. Why was she asking? I told her that how could I want that for him if we don't know what his problem is? We just know areas of issue and until we know what is dx, I have no opinion on that. I don't care if he's in SpecEd or not, long as he is getting what he needs to learn, cope & thrive. Additional time on homework is good, yes, but if you are constantly trying to keep up or catch up, it is no different except you are not being marked down for it. Also, some work like the assignment today throws off the whole class so teacher may not be so willing to let it go. Remember, additional time on work is subjective to teacher's approval not across the board. Also assignment put DS at disadvantage because each student had 1 chapter that they sat in front of the class while chapter was read and needed to take notes on the discussion of chapter and important parts of that chapter. DS could not write one note. He cannot handle listening to other people read, change within a chapter on part as he can hear/comprehend all the different tones etc. Nor can he do it while listening. SharonF wrote"I don't want to worry you. But your son sounds like a deep thinker with deep emotions. He is frustrated that he cannot meet the academic demands placed on him. He doesn't want to let you down. Or his teachers down. But he's not sure how to find success. " You are not worrying me. You are being honest and also supportive. That's so very needed. I know he feels this completely, but even more so, it is that he knows the stuff just can't produce what they want. This frustrates him even more. He does not like someone looking down at him. He can handle it if he is inferior like say something he doesn't know, but...he knows the work and this make it very different. That's why he loved his Geometry teacher. Even though DS had problems in class, went to tutoring 3 days a week at school, teacher talked with DS often, made him know he sees how DS thinks, knows how intelligent he is and gave him support constantly. Too bad teacher is on leave for a couple years in Portugal now. He even raised his grade just a tad so that he could take Chem & Alg2 instead of taking Geometry again & no Chem. He saw how hard he worked and that though he could not score well on the tests, the kid still got the info. I think you all have given me a clearer picture on what may be going on with my son. The person I spoke with said this is where to start. I just pray that through it all, DS will begin to understand and see what is going on. I think that would be a huge step towards dealing with his LD. I think he's too confused right now like me or like I was before all of you. Better post this before it gets to long.
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Post by SharonF on Nov 1, 2011 15:14:17 GMT -5
2remem--
I wish I could give you a big hug right now. With an incredible mom like you, your kids are going to be okay. I am certain of it.
Your post touched me deeply. I have tears running down my face right now. I understand your hurt, your fears and your frustrations.
I also understand how safe and supported you feel pouring out your heart to a bunch of complete strangers. Ten years ago, I was going through the same thing. Two kids with very unusual learning profiles who were falling behind and miserable in school. The school either resisted efforts to help them or truly didn't understand my kids' needs.
I found incredible help on the precursor to this message board. I cannot describe how much help I got from the people on that board. They had trudged down that road before me, knew what to say, and helped me ask the right questions. They helped me not to give up.
What difference did that make? Everything. My 22-year old son is happy and finding his way. My 20-year old daughter is thriving. And I have had the privilege of meeting - in person - six people I have met through this board. They live in various states. Some I email regularly.
How close have we become? Well, I found an incredible bond with another mom who lives 500 miles away. She's having a tough time right now, not related to her kids' situation. I am flying to visit her Friday for a long weekend. What started as sharing similarities between our daughters' unusual learning styles developed over the years into a deep, lasting friendship.
And right in front of my computer is a small plaque that reads "Each friendship is a unique and special gift of God." It came from someone I met on this message board. Someone who still posts here daily. Someone who not only lives in a different state but a different time zone from me. Someone who drove to an airport a couple years ago to meet me in person, as I happened to be flying through her city. She's as special in person as she is on this board.
I tell you this to reassure you. The people on this board are amazing. It is impossible to describe the amount of support, compassion and accurate advice I've gotten over the years from others on this message board!!
I sometimes tell myself to stop posting on Millermom. My kids are grown. The laws have changed. My experiences may no longer be relevant. But I read posts like yours and I'm hooked. I still want to give back, in some way, to the many people who reached out a cyberhand to me 10 years ago. They only way I can is to pay it forward.
I think you are doing the right thing by making the appointment with the neuropsych. I don't know of her. But a good, thorough developmental neuropsych can help make sense of things for you and your son.
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Post by bros on Nov 1, 2011 15:19:44 GMT -5
In what capacity has the person worked with the school district before?
Are they one of the recommended doctors to do an IEE with by the school?
Are they a doctor who has done an IEE for a student at the school (i.e. not recommended by the school, the parent found them)
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Post by 2remem on Nov 1, 2011 18:31:37 GMT -5
SharonF Now it's my turn to cry again, but these are tears of joy. I feel like a found my place, my home. I had to read to my husband what you wrote and I printed out. It will be next to me and serve as my reminder.
SharonF, you are a gem and what you and other have given me is priceless. You are here because you've been where I am as you said. I don't care if it was 20 years ago or 10 minutes ago. There certain things that time do not change. Caring & Experience. There are others that may have more knowledge of testing and laws that are here too who have helped out and their knowledge is invaluable also. Each adds and each has been so very needed.
Without you I would have been in a very dark place. I have learned what most likely is going on with my son. This is great. I am no longer banging my head against the wall, scanning every website, and buying & reading books that leave me more lost than when I started.
Everyone has shared what they have learned about their own children and and used their knowledge and dx's to help me see the whole picture whether good or bad. Hard or easy. Mine may be hard, but I know I am not alone and that by itself is PRICELESS.
I want to understand & hear. I need to. I know it will not be an easy journey and I don't care. As long as the journey begins now. AND I know now.... I am not alone.
bros- "In what capacity has the person worked with the school district before?" She has done IEE's in the district before
"Are they one of the recommended doctors to do an IEE with by the school?" Have no idea. Just started calling. Asked a few questions and they can get him in for consult in 2 weeks. No others call me back. Don't care...if I have to pay I will. They said if the Dr. knows that we are waiting on IEE paperwork that she most likely will not charge for consult. Had no idea who to call & just guessed.
"Are they a doctor who has done an IEE for a student at the school (i.e. not recommended by the school, the parent found them)"I found her myself.
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Post by 2remem on Nov 1, 2011 19:19:15 GMT -5
I do want make sure that everyone who has posted knows that every post is important & meaningful and will surely be helpful to others as much as for me. Healthy11, hsmom, jw, beth, SharonF and everyone else who posts on the message board....you have taken the time to read & gosh knows if you are reading my posts, bless your heart as they are lengthy( guess DS got it from me just verbally) & and you take the time to help out. Corny again..you have nothing to gain but a friend; and that I will be.
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Post by bros on Nov 1, 2011 20:09:32 GMT -5
SharonFNow it's my turn to cry again, but these are tears of joy. I feel like a found my place, my home. I had to read to my husband what you wrote and I printed out. It will be next to me and serve as my reminder. SharonF, you are a gem and what you and other have given me is priceless. You are here because you've been where I am as you said. I don't care if it was 20 years ago or 10 minutes ago. There certain things that time do not change. Caring & Experience. There are others that may have more knowledge of testing and laws that are here too who have helped out and their knowledge is invaluable also. Each adds and each has been so very needed. Without you I would have been in a very dark place. I have learned what most likely is going on with my son. This is great. I am no longer banging my head against the wall, scanning every website, and buying & reading books that leave me more lost than when I started. Everyone has shared what they have learned about their own children and and used their knowledge and dx's to help me see the whole picture whether good or bad. Hard or easy. Mine may be hard, but I know I am not alone and that by itself is PRICELESS. I want to understand & hear. I need to. I know it will not be an easy journey and I don't care. As long as the journey begins now. AND I know now.... I am not alone. bros- "In what capacity has the person worked with the school district before?" She has done IEE's in the district before "Are they one of the recommended doctors to do an IEE with by the school?" Have no idea. Just started calling. Asked a few questions and they can get him in for consult in 2 weeks. No others call me back. Don't care...if I have to pay I will. They said if the Dr. knows that we are waiting on IEE paperwork that she most likely will not charge for consult. Had no idea who to call & just guessed. "Are they a doctor who has done an IEE for a student at the school (i.e. not recommended by the school, the parent found them)"I found her myself. Why I am asking it is because when you request an IEE, the district usually sends you a list of doctors they recommend you visit. Those are the doctors you should NOT see.
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Post by SharonF on Nov 1, 2011 20:10:08 GMT -5
2remem--
You are so kind. I'm so glad to know that we have helped you. We all know that tear-your-heart-out hurt. That's why most of us keep coming here. To help another weary traveler along a dark, twisting road that's not on any map.
Your words remind me of a post I wrote many years ago. A post of gratitude to others on the message board who were helping me. I can't remember the exact words. But something to the effect that, while I still feel the wind blowing in my face, it no longer feels as cold. While the weight is still on my shoulders, it no longer feels as heavy.
Complete strangers were deflecting that fierce wind that had been hitting my face for too long. They were helping me shoulder the load. And through the people on the message board, I found the strength to keep going. And I found hope. I did not keep going for me, but for my kids.
Don't apologize for long posts. I'm the queen of long posts! But you're welcome to read what you want and ignore what you choose. I don't know what will make sense to someone else. Or what is unimportant to their situation. So I err on the side of giving too much info. Especially when a kid has bits and pieces of various learning styles and no clear answers.
We haven't even touched your dd's situation. I don't want to leave her out. But because of your's son's 504 meeting, we focused on him first.
BTW--medical insurance sometimes covers neuropsychs and audiologists. Especially if the evals result in a medical diagnosis. It's worth a try. Neuropsychs can sometimes also be covered by insurance if an MD makes the referral. BUT--health insurance has changed a lot in ten years and my experience from the early 2000's may no longer apply today.
I hope homework for your son is better tonight. And that you sleep easier. Sometimes, it just helps to know you are not facing that cold wind and carrying that heavy burden alone.
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Post by 2remem on Nov 1, 2011 22:18:01 GMT -5
Bros - I agree with you completely and that is why I made the first call. I already saw how the school has swept him under the carpet in many ways. So why the heck would I trust them on this? That could be scary as you would never know if what they report is accurate or not. Wonder if someone has started a thread on that? "School District IEE done by district approved Drs. and the results." I don't have a clue whom to call, but did have an idea what to say. The one I called has done IEE's with the district in the past though it did not sound like there was a "revolving door" relationship. If I knew someone else to call, I would. Maybe I need to start another thread so people can post specialists they have used. ie. "Recommended Professionals" for each area/town/state. I do have a friend who is a county psychiatrist that the school districts refer students to her too including our district. She said that if they have a list, she will look at it and see who to go to or in the end... honestly I really don't care...I'll pay for it. It's my child's future, his well being. SharonF- Your post is beautiful and so meaningful; fitting. You said everything for me. Ins., nah, it's through county because DS is high risk and cannot get coverage. Sadly, they are the same ones who overlooked his problems all these years including birth. Don't trust them with this and not even sure they have anyone to handle it. State healthcare has lost a lot and even the state university that worked with the county for in depth audiology, no longer does. They had one of the most advanced APD setups in the US up to a few years ago. Today was a bad day for DS. He skipped 3rd period. School psych left her office open for him with a note knowing he wouldn't go to class and that's where he was. He came home exhausted. Didn't want to talk. Spent an 1 1/2 hours with his tutor, felt good about what he got done and went to bed. He's wiped out. He has so much to do tonight and I am not saying a word. Even hubby sees it. He is beginning to understand a bit more now about what I have been saying. This is a huge plus. Let's just say that part of it comes from upbringing and then he too has a hard time understanding how can my son have a LD when I know he's smart. I am not done with you all!!! ;D SharonF this is not over and I plan to keep you informed. Ok...here's another puzzle. DD is another interesting one. Tomorrow is IEP Meeting. Yes...2 in one week. Most scores for her show average except Coding 17 Vocabulary 14 Broad Math Calculations 117 Paragraph Comprehension 118 Rapid Object naming 5 Elision 7 VMI 82 All other subtests are 8-12 or WJ-III 88-107 Let's just say that she sees words differently first of all. I think she needs to be tested for dyslexia. She still writes d & b backwards and ALWAYS capitalizes B not matter what. Her handwriting is all over the place. She learns vocabulary verbally only and then writes them repeating each letter as she write it. I taught her how to read in the most interesting way. She was reading 7 wpm with 80% correct last January. By the beginning of 4/10 IEP in place for short term memory problems. I found by chance that she needs to see words not always head on, looking at the words on an angle or high up from paper, needs to stand up to read to read fluently(discovered this yesterday 55 wpm vs. 102 wpm), and she likes to work sitting on her knees or standing nest to her desk. * Has great long term memory Remembers place we have driven and can give directions @ 7 yrs old. DS still can't find his way out of paper bag just like my mom and sister. She can remember the last place something was even if she threw it under her bed. Sucks! I cannot clean out her closet, toys, shoes etc. *She is pack rat extraordinaire even tiny little pieces of paper or new clothing tags. Sorry, I put my foot down on that one. If you want the tag, then something else leaves your room to the trash. *Artistic loves to draw/ creative *Had great fine motor skills as a child(could pick lint of floor at 6 mos.) Oh forgot she's only 7 she acts 15 *Fine motor skills with writing is literally all over the paper *Doodles on her papers in class *Does not recognize no matter how many times told "Capital" is the same as "Uppercase", minus is the same as take away is the same as less than etc. She can see some things when dealing with math that I can't even see and need to count. *Can sit for hours entertaining herself. DS lucky if it was 5 minutes. *Can do weeks worth of homework in one sitting, no problem *has a serious sugar addiction (working hard on it and has gotten a bit better, but I have to mention that I caught her licking a drawing she brought home from school. They had used glue and then sprinkled colored sugar over it.) Yuk, I know. *great balance, athletic *hate loud noise most of the time *great improvements in what she writes and has actually copied to paper a book she read. Don't ask me why. * Don't know what you'd call this, but the little devil just lost a tooth of course at 11 pm and I didn't have cash to be the tooth fairy, but I won a pie contest that day and they gave me a gift card. I tried to change my handwriting as a printed the to: and the from: on the card. Couple days later she has a pad in hand and said to write her name on the pad. She went back to her desk and went on to compare the hand writing on the pad to the card. The little devil deduced that a couple letters were very similar, yet a couple were different enough for her to say it is inconclusive at this time. She drew out a chart and wrote like a report of her findings. OK?...where did that come from? *has a bit of a problem rhyming words sometimes makes them up *she can play Gears of War on xbox almost as good as her brother and he is really good. And no I do not approve. She sneaks in his room. *Both kids are electronics savvy, really really *saves money like a scrooge *she never napped as a baby, was/is a night owl, was/is my devil child, got into everything, swallowed a metal ball, drank liquid bandage, covered my floor in crisco, cut her hair more times than I wish to count, white outed my wood counter stools(does not come off), sharpied walls, kiss all the white blinds with lipstick on her lips(still not gone), drop the cat in the pool just a few times,.....should I go on? You wanted it...you got it. I think in some ways DD will be easier than DS. I am surely leaving things out but I have to run out to buy a new organizer for DS. He lost his already this year, but then he lost his chemistry book, pe clothes, permanent hall pass and of course homework. ;D *screams when angry *temper tantrums/ like to hit *stubborn like nothing you've seen though we are improving
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Post by bros on Nov 1, 2011 22:38:49 GMT -5
2remem-- You are so kind. I'm so glad to know that we have helped you. We all know that tear-your-heart-out hurt. That's why most of us keep coming here. To help another weary traveler along a dark, twisting road that's not on any map. Your words remind me of a post I wrote many years ago. A post of gratitude to others on the message board who were helping me. I can't remember the exact words. But something to the effect that, while I still feel the wind blowing in my face, it no longer feels as cold. While the weight is still on my shoulders, it no longer feels as heavy. Complete strangers were deflecting that fierce wind that had been hitting my face for too long. They were helping me shoulder the load. And through the people on the message board, I found the strength to keep going. And I found hope. I did not keep going for me, but for my kids. Don't apologize for long posts. I'm the queen of long posts! But you're welcome to read what you want and ignore what you choose. I don't know what will make sense to someone else. Or what is unimportant to their situation. So I err on the side of giving too much info. Especially when a kid has bits and pieces of various learning styles and no clear answers. We haven't even touched your dd's situation. I don't want to leave her out. But because of your's son's 504 meeting, we focused on him first. BTW--medical insurance sometimes covers neuropsychs and audiologists. Especially if the evals result in a medical diagnosis. It's worth a try. Neuropsychs can sometimes also be covered by insurance if an MD makes the referral. BUT--health insurance has changed a lot in ten years and my experience from the early 2000's may no longer apply today. I hope homework for your son is better tonight. And that you sleep easier. Sometimes, it just helps to know you are not facing that cold wind and carrying that heavy burden alone. My neuropsych was covered fully by insurance, he said it is easier if the patient has a medical diagnosis that can be used to justify a neuropsych eval (i.e. anxiety) rather than a LD (ADHD, etc.). My Neuropsych billed insurance saying it was for my epilepsy.
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Post by healthy11 on Nov 1, 2011 23:17:31 GMT -5
2remem, I had to smile when reading some of the things your children have done...if only because a lot of it reminded me of things my son did. He's a bit of both your kids rolled into one. For what it's worth, my son was a night-owl and never napped, either, but he couldn't entertain himself for more than 5 minutes (still seldom does) and he decided by age 6 that there was no Santa. The only flaw in his logic was that he thought "mom and dad make him go to bed early...ie, 11pm., on Christmas Eve so they can go shopping." I realize you may be Jewish, but I think you'll still understand. My son was always putting stuff in his mouth, too (his 4 1/2 month ultrasound already showed him sucking his thumb) however after he was born, we decided it was better to let him have a pacifier than other non-food items. Once he was school-age, he would chew on pencils, and there was a teen stage where I'd find him sucking on his guitar picks... I haven't noticed him continuing to do much of that stuff lately, so maybe he's finally outgrown it? Your daughter's situation concerns me a bit more, because of the potential toxicity of what she's tasting...be it liquid bandage, or glue products, etc. Is it possible she has pica? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pica_%28disorder%29I know you've got a lot to consider already, but especially with regards to your daughter, I really think you would find the new book "The Dyslexic Advantage" by Drs. Brock and Fernette Eide to be worthwhile... millermom.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Education&thread=12291&page=1 I found lots of reasons for hope as I read it, and I think you would, too.
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Post by 2remem on Nov 2, 2011 4:08:40 GMT -5
Bros- Good to know about insurance and that anxiety could allow for evaluation.
Healthy11- You made me chuckle. Yes Jewish. Totally get it though! She is a bit better about what's goes in her mouth, but now the issue is with my son. He puts more in his mouth than she does! Including swallowing a magnet a few months ago. Don't even ask.
I think I am confused. Traits seem to be changing between my kids and I am trying to keep up.
I just glanced at the link you gave on dyslexia.
Was reading SharonF's post that she wrote to you about DD. "dd is strong in M and N. We have laughed for years that she remembers *every* detail about past events, including the clothing people were wearing, the weather... everything visual, she remembers. Almost like a photographic memory. But she can't memorize vocabulary words for a test unless she visualizes them in a certain way."
and interestingly...it fits me perfectly. I was always teased about my memory because I remember, smells, clothes, positioning, weather, the exact time and emotions along with all the standard stuff. Guess I better start reading. I used to write my spelling words over and over, but actually on test day I would visualize the paper that I had written the words on and never missed a spelling word.
I have a cork board that has tons of pieces of paper on it. Each is the actual piece of paper, napkin etc. that the phone# was written on even ones from 10 years ago. When I want to call someone, I visualize the paper the # was written on and then where on the cork board I put it to find it. Now mind you, these #'s are in my phone too. Makes no difference. Boy if you heard the stories of me you'd die laughing.
I just thought I was a visual person. I can visualize in slow motion too catching even more details. But names...forget it. Which is left or right; still a problem. I still say left when I mean right and right when I mean left. Big problem with dh as it drives him crazy and I am incredible with directions(only by landmarks ie. trees, buildings, unique details or by blocks, lights, not by street names, distance etc.), yet I cannot get the left and right out of my mouth correctly. I never had problems with the standard things that I know dyslexics struggle with, but I guess I need to read more cuz I know nothing it seems. THANK YOU, another door to check out.
More on my devil child.
DD had an adversion to clothes until a couple years ago no matter how cold it was and almost never wore shoes until last year and then only crocs. Still now she only wears shoes when she has to and when she climbs in the car, the shoes come off even if going only a couple blocks to school. Not sure if it's anything because I only wear shoes when I go out. I'll wear 4 pairs of socks, but not slippers.
She get attached to things though. She saw a stuffed piggy at the car dealership and had to have him(yes we are Jewish and the pig has been to Israel several times and to Jewish Day School every school day for 3 years!). Piggy still goes to school everyday with her just he stays in her backpack.
The liquid bandage was a real freak thing and the metal ball...I thought I saw her swallow it though by mistake, I asked her and she said yes. The hospital didn't believe me only because a 2yr old told me so. Boy were they surprised. Just so you know, my son had a small metal detector and I used it to track the movement of the ball through her body until it exited.
Not sure if it's a pica issue or just plain devil child. She had to touch, feel and experience everything and still kind of does. AND yes...poison control's # was on my fridge, speed dial on my home phone and cell phone. Oh she also ate a silica gel pack too. That has a hilarious background story.
Oh, I just thought of something. Would you believe me if I tell you that my daughter smells people? I mean their scents, laundry detergent, shampoo etc. She used to identify kids belongings at school by the scent. She had a couple friends over & they both had the same jacket. One forgot it and she smelled it and knew who it belonged to. She doesn't even need to put her nose to it. Funny thing was I have a sensitive nose but beside just a small possible scent, I couldn't tell you which kid in belonged to.
She was a super early walker @ 6 months & riding a scooter by 1 yr like a demon.
Tonight is a much better night and it is thanks to you all. Now I have to finish up work so I can get the sleep I lost last night so that I can be ready for IEP. DD reached one benchmark and has flown way past it. Be interesting if they say she doesn't qualify for Spec.Ed anymore. But then I know what to do right, ladies?
Oh and I have reading to do. Just downloaded The Dyslexic Advantage from Amazon.
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Post by healthy11 on Nov 2, 2011 7:05:44 GMT -5
The above post about your daughter immediately brought to mind Dabrowski's theories of Over-excitabilities "superstimulatabilities" in gifted people. Here's a quick explanation: www.stephanietolan.com/dabrowskis.htmAs far as your son goes, with or without CAPD, I still suspect ADHD, because his inability to entertain himself for more than 5 minutes at a time, unless they find something they really, really, like is such a common characteristic... When you have a chance, more of the resources I've listed in the "2e ~ Twice Exceptional" thread will probably be informative: millermom.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Education&action=display&thread=9972
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Post by SharonF on Nov 2, 2011 7:12:56 GMT -5
WOW! Living with your dd is quite an adventure. How old is she? A couple quick thoughts. Most dyslexics do not reverse b/d. That's an incorrect stereotype. Some dyslexics reverse letters, but most don't. This summarizes the more common traits of dyslexia: hnb.dhs.vic.gov.au/dsonline/dsarticles.nsf/pages/Dyslexia_explained?OpenDocumentAnd this explains how one state identifies and assists kids who have dyslexia: education.state.mn.us/mdeprod/groups/SpecialEd/documents/Instruction/001568.pdfI'd love to see all of the standard scores from your dd's WISC and WJ. But I'm guessing she is a Visual-Spatial learner. Linda Kreger-Silverman is my favorite expert on VSLers: www.visualspatial.org/ I'm thinking your dd is not only visual, but a big-picture thinker. She generally learns entire concepts at once (gestalt) rather than sequentially, step by step. She may be able to solve math problems without showing her work. Gestalt thinkers are some of the most successful adults, but they tend to struggle more in typical classrooms. But people who are visual learners (like my dd) can have visual processing problems (like my dd.) Especially if their brain is being asked to process 2D information (words on a page, charts, maps, graphs) rather than 3D information. Their brains don't only think in pictures, they think in very detailed 3D images. 2D is just not meaningful enough to them. For your dd, it appears visual discrimination (a subset of visual processing) may be a problem. That could include the b/d and p/q mixups. I'm not finding any web information I like, but this will do: www.ncld.org/ld-basics/related-issues/information-processing/visual-processing-disorders-by-age-groupFor my dd, words "wiggled" on the page. They shimmered. Especially if the ink was very dark and the paper was very white. Or if the print was small. She said the words literally moved around on the page as she tried to read. Using graph paper was a nightmare for her. We discovered this in 7th grade, as we were learnng about her CAPD, NLD, ADHD and other alphabet soup of confusing stuff that the school said they had no obligation to address. Vision therapy did help her. But be careful. Vision Therapy does not help all kids. And behavioral optometrists have a reputation for being quacks. Her optometrist promised all sorts of hooey such as that he would "cure" her ADHD. He did not. But the vision therapy exercises did help her. And that's what we wanted. We didn't expect a cure for ADHD. Sometimes, people with visual processing issues are helped by putting colored overlays on the paper. There are dozens of different colors, and you have to experiment to see which works best. But overlays did not help my dd. And if a student is self-concious about their learning issues, putting a bright turquoise overlay on everything they read is not exactly subtle. People who have extreme sensory strengths (such as your dd's visual memory) tend to also have sensory sensitivities. Not always a detriment. But it doesn't surprise me that your dd can smell the difference in people's shampoo. Or that she has to TOUCH everything way past toddlerhood. Or even put stuff in her mouth. It just seems to be the flip-side of that incredible visual strength. Simply put, she is multi-sensory. Words just don't have enough meaning for her. She literally has to touch it, smell it, experience it, even put it in her mouth to truly understand it and remember it. Yes, she may be breaching social norms by putting some things in her mouth. And she may need guidance on what is acceptable behavior. But I'm thinking she is simply a very curious kid who wants to engage as many senses as possible when experiencing something.
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Post by healthy11 on Nov 2, 2011 7:35:39 GMT -5
Sharon, in the Eides' Dyslexic Advantage book, they describe how "3D" thinkers are some of the people who tend to have more letter reversals, because in their minds, they can so easily rotate a "b to the d position, or p, or q..." As you point out, the "2 dimensional" image isn't meaningful enough! (The Eides gave an example of one client who did use capital letters for just that reason; my son would generally do it just with B's and D's, but seeing a capital letter in the miDDle of a word used to irritate his teachers....) P.S. I believe 2remem's daughter is age 7.
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