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Post by majorv on Mar 20, 2009 12:41:58 GMT -5
called Trig. She did really well her first semester, but Physics is giving her some problems and Trig. is giving her a lot of problems this semester. In fact, she texted me this morning warning me she was probably going to fail trig., saying "I'm clueless in that class!" I don't really understand because she got A's and B's in HS (Algebra I, II, Geometry). Her roommate is very smart - was NHS in HS - and she's having a hard time with it. I, on the other hand, made C's and D's in HS math but made a B when I took Trig. It was so long ago I don't remember enough to help her. She's taking it at a 4-yr university and I took it in junior college - that may be part of the explanation but certainly not all of it. Did anyone else's kid have this problem?  |
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Post by healthy11 on Mar 20, 2009 12:56:33 GMT -5
How about my son, who scored 35 on his ACT in math (36 is perfect) and wants to be an engineer, but is between a "C" and "D" in his calc class? If he doesn't get at least a "C" he can't take the next course, and engineering requires about 6 advanced math classes all together... He's now doubting his major, and everything. (The college he's at is just a technology university, so we're trying to figure out if he needs to change schools, or what.)
I am convinced that individual teachers can make a difference, but I also think some of our kids need to seek help at the FIRST sign of trouble, not wait in the hopes that "they'll pick it up in the next chapter." Math, in particular, is a subject where topics build upon one another, and if you don't get a basic concept, you're destined to have trouble later. My son didn't seek assistance until after they'd had a couple of tests, and his grade is already impacted.
Has your daughter tried to speak to the teacher/T.A.'s, and seen the campus tutoring center for additional help? My son is on spring break this week, and the deadline to drop classes is the end of the month...If your daughter is really unlikely to pass, perhaps she should withdraw from the math class now, and retake it over the summer (if her university offers it, or allows her to take it at a community college.) If not, she can sign up for it again in fall. She can review the book at her own pace over the summer, or maybe find a local tutor, or even take it at the community college and NOT attempt to transfer the credit to the university...She'll just be better-prepared in fall.
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Post by bros on Mar 20, 2009 13:16:18 GMT -5
Try to talk to disability services at the college, see if they offer tutoring services.
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Post by majorv on Mar 20, 2009 13:29:13 GMT -5
healthy, why wouldn't she want to take it at a CC and transfer it? She was going to take a History class at the CC this summer.
She has talked to her instructor and been to the counseling center twice that I know of. She said the first time she went the person wasn't very helpful. I got her a 'trig for dummies' type of book and she said that helped some.
Our state passed a law a couple of years ago that limits the number of times you can drop a course (after the official drop date) at 6 for your whole undergraduate career without it counting towards your GPA. After 6, if you withdraw with an F, the F counts.
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Post by majorv on Mar 20, 2009 13:31:13 GMT -5
Try to talk to disability services at the college, see if they offer tutoring services. bros, this is my neurotypical child so disability services isn't part of the picture, unfortunately. |
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Post by healthy11 on Mar 20, 2009 15:27:42 GMT -5
majorv, the rules at every college are different. At my son's school, you need to get "advance permission" to take classes at a community college (or at any other college) and have it transfer back to the university for credit. I've been told that they usually approve CC classes that are not in the student's major to be taken, but classes that were started and dropped, or taken and the student got a poor grade and now wants to retake, must be done at the university.
As an example, all students have to take a certain number of humanities/sociology classes, but they don't tell engineering majors it has to be "Political Science 101" versus "Psychology 102," so the university would probably approve either summer class at the CC. HOWEVER, if my son was a Psych major, they would not want him taking psychology classes at other schools. If your daughter's major requires a specific trig course, they may not want her taking it elsewhere for transfer purposes, but if they just say she needs "X math classes" then they probably won't care. If they did object to her transferring it, she could still take it at the CC and be better prepared for retaking at her university in fall. Does that make sense?
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Post by cobyseven on Mar 20, 2009 15:44:37 GMT -5
majorv,
even the best of students find mismatches with college professors. Freshman year is challenging for all; even neurotypicals. Kids aren't used to being less rigid in their schedules combined with being totally self-directed. In high school, much of your time is directed for you.
I don't know your kids, so please don't let me offend you, but are you sure they aren't just having too much 'freshman fun?' Happened to over 1/2 of my dd's college friends. Most are back on track by sophomore year when the novelty wears off. I don't know your kids, so PUHLEASE don't let my question offend you!
(I might add that the only reason this didn't impact my daughter was that she did this early in h.s., learned her lesson, and is focused on college sports, so her time is STILL very directed.)
Dds roommate was on academic probation for over 3/4 of her freshman year. She's carrying great grades now, but just went totally AWOL with all the freedom first year. ALL of the kids at this university are academically capable or they wouldn't have gotten in at all. It's a tough school for admissions.
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Post by jisp on Mar 20, 2009 18:18:10 GMT -5
One problem with college is that there is often an expectation that the student will do a certain amount of independent learning and practice on their own. With something like math, especially for kids who have a history of having math come easily, it can be a rude awakening that they actually have to voluntarily do practice problems and rote work to become skilled at using the material. Combine this with the fact that in some college level math courses there is an unspoken expectation that the tests will not simply be a recap of the problems assigned during the semester but will actually require a student to use the material learned in a new way or slightly different way.
My other thought is why is she taking Trig? Is she planning on going into the sciences or architecture? Trigonometry is very important for some fields but is not really a math that is necessary. Perhaps she would do better with Statistics or Accounting which would be math that she would use in her future career.
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Post by majorv on Mar 20, 2009 21:53:41 GMT -5
healthy, I think we may be okay. DD looked on her college website and found the equivalent courses offered at the CC so she shouldn't have a problem getting the credit transferred.
I queried her about how much time she spent studying trig this week. She sheepishly looked at me and said none. So, I think that the problem is that she found HS math to be easy, and assumed that trig would be the same way. She hasn't made enough effort to get help - I told her she should be going to the counseling center every week.
coby, I am not offended at all. She's never been much of a party animal, but she is bad about procrastinating. She's also involved in a couple of campus organizations, one of which really took too much of her time. Even if she passes it with a D she will probably have to take it again for a better grade.
Jisp, she has to take Trig because it is a prerequisite for several of the science classes she must take. She's studying pre-veterinary medicine.
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Post by healthy11 on Mar 20, 2009 22:58:34 GMT -5
I guess I'm not clear if your daughter is beyond the class withdraw date for this semester, or if she'd be better off dropping the class now and concentrating on raising her GPA in other classes like Physics. Getting entry to vet programs is really competitive from what I hear, so she may want to just focus on doing well in her other classes for the rest of this term. In any case, I'm glad to hear your daughter's school is flexible about the CC courses. As I said, even if my son found equivalent courses, his university demands pre-approval for students to transfer credits, and they don't like to grant permission in a student's major. My son's school also only allows 3 classes total to be retaken for better grades, if students fail to withdraw in time.  |
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Post by sisdparent on Mar 24, 2009 10:01:42 GMT -5
Oldest had the same problem with Anatomy (she completely understood the concepts, but the look alike words and extremely similar definitions drove her nuts). She got a D last semester and has to retake the class, but the prof went to bat for her and put her in 2nd section this Spring on the condition that she comes in for extra tutoring. It's made a huge difference and she's doing much better.
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Post by majorv on Mar 24, 2009 12:39:56 GMT -5
DD talked to the TA (prof is out of the country) and found out her average is a 20. The TA said that her class is far ahead of the other Trig classes in the curriculum...wouldn't you know she got Speedy Gonzalez for an instructor! There will be a few more quizzes and a test or two, but I'm thinking she needs to drop it. It's after the official drop date so it will count against her 6 allowed. She wants to take it at the CC this summer. Her other option is to stay with it and probably get an F, then she could re-take it for a better grade and the F won't count against her GPA. I suspect that in order to do that she would have to take the Trig class at her college, though. Decisions, decisions...
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Post by jill921 on Apr 14, 2009 12:38:43 GMT -5
Oh boy! My HS Senior was having trouble with math and we have had to FORCE HIM to make use of the 'after school tutoring'. Now that he is getting the extra tutoring he's doing great but he still thinks he could of figured it out himself. I just know he will have problems with Math in College but will he seek out extra help - I'm betting NOOOOO!
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Post by majorv on Apr 14, 2009 17:21:18 GMT -5
A word of advice - we have found that my daughter does much better when she can select the instructor that works for her. She checks out ratemyprofessor.com before she signs up for any class, and it's worked pretty good for her. I don't think she had much choice with her Trig prof. because her advisor forgot to clear her to register early for the spring semester. By the time he fixed it she didn't have near the selection of classes to choose from. She dropped Trig and will retake it in the fall. For the second time around, she has picked an instructor that goes slower, easier to understand and is willing to sit down and help the students understand it.
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Post by SharonF on Apr 15, 2009 8:48:05 GMT -5
majorv--
My son is having similar difficulties. He did okay in math in high school and had a respectable Math SAT score, but is drowning in his 1200-level math class as a college freshman. He has a language processing disorder and struggles to apply learned concepts in different ways, even math concepts. He's very hands-on. Math at this level is not hands-on.
While home for Easter, he mentioned that too many college professors LOVE math but can't explain it. He said he's been going to small group tutoring, but the TAs (or the students paid to provide math tutoring) have the same problem: they can do math but can't explain it. They just keep showing the same problem over and over and ask, "Do you get it now?"
Yes, he gets how to solve THAT problem. But he has trouble applying the sequences and concepts to the next problem, and the next problem...
Sometimes, I wonder if the these are "weed out" courses. My son intended to be a high school Earth/Environmental science teacher, but based on the hefty math, physics and chemistry requirements, he's seriously thinking of changing his major.
He did the "ratemyprofessor" for the fall semester and he's hoping that will help. He couldn't believe the number of professors in all subject areas with low ratings from their students!!
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Post by healthy11 on Apr 15, 2009 10:09:10 GMT -5
Just to "commiserate," my son's strengths have always been in math, and he managed a 35 out of 36 on his ACT...he thinks he wants to be an engineer, but he encounters college calculus and was failing first semester....part of the problem was he inadvertently was using a "recommended" textbook instead of the required one, but this semester he's retaking it, and only getting a "C." You're absolutely correct that some of the teachers love their subject, but simply can't explain it to others.
In terms of ratemyprofessor.com, my son found it to be very reliable when he took some community college courses, but at his 4-year-college it's less helpful. Some of the professors are new, or are teaching the classes for the first time, so there aren't many ratings. (If my son was attending a larger, public university instead of a smaller private one, there would probably be more helpful data.)
The other thing to keep in mind for all the rating sites is that usually kids only post comments if they really LOVE or really HATE their instructors. Most of the kids don't seem to take the time to comment about "so-so" experiences.
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