Re: Vitamins and Minerals

[catatonic]

This is really an enormous subject, and a successful supplement protocol will often end up being highly individualized, as it depends on each person's nutritional needs and sensitivities. A supplement that is dramatically beneficial to one person may make another worse, and you can't really tell without taking it for a test drive

However, there are some supplements that enjoy widespread success, are backed by good clinical evidence, and are probably the best starting point if you're new to natural tretments.

As a first step, I'd recommend reading Laura Stevens' book, "12 Effective Ways To Help Your ADD/ADHD Child". It's an excellent beginning resource, with clear and specific recommendations for vitamins, amino acids, and other nutrients. She also looks at other forms of alternative treatment (such as neurofeedback or fungicides for yeast overgrowth) that some folks may want to consider later on down the line. Our public library carries this book, and it's also available through Laura's website at:
users.nlci.com/nutrition/

As a starting point, I'll post a list of the top 5 supplements that have proven most effective for my son. We follow the Feingold diet, which made miraculous changes in his acting-out behavior, but didn't do nearly enough for attention and focus. That's where supplements have been of greatest use to us. In addition to a good quality multi-vitamin, our most consistently successful supplements have been:

1.) Omega-3 (in the form of fish oil). Aim to provide each day 480mg DHA and at least that much EPA, split into morning and evening doses. You need to include at least 100IU Vitamin E with each dose. (There is a separate thread devoted to Omega-3, because it is so incredibly important. I won't duplicate information by posting details here.)

2.) Magnesium. Take a look at the excellent website devoted to the benefits of magnesium and scientific research on the subject:
www.mgwater.com

There are several survey studies that have concluded that upwards of 90% of children with ADHD are magnesium deficient. You can have your child tested for magnesium deficiency at a lab (red blood levels are most reliable) as well as conducting a simple test at home. It's called the Cvostek test and is surprisingly reliable. Have your child sit comfortably upright in a chair. With your finger, tap his cheek halfway between the earlobe and the corner of the mouth. If the upper lip beneath the nose shows a twitch or jump, then magnesium deficiency is indicated. Do this on your whole family...friends, too. Once you've seen a "twitcher" vs. a non-twitcher, you won't have any doubt when you're getting a reaction.

It can take months to correct a magnesium deficiency. Particularly if you make the mistake of purchasing magnesium oxide. Don't buy this. It's not bio-available and you can take tons of it without seeing results. Any other form is better. Chelated minerals are the most bio-available, but tend to be a fair bit more expensive.

You can calculate a therapeutic dose by multiplying body weight in pounds times 6. So a 50 pound child would need 300mg elemental magnesium per day. A maintenance dose is half that amount, or body weight in pounds multiplied by 3.

3.) Zinc. I give my son 50mg per day. Don't do this unless you're using a multi-vitamin or multi-mineral that also contains a small amount of copper. (The ideal ratio is 1mg copper for each 15mg magnesium.) Zinc tends to strip copper from your body, and without any copper supplementation, you can become copper deficient within only a couple of weeks. A new study was published recently that indicates zinc contributes significantly to the effectiveness of Ritalin, so you may want to consider adding this if you are currently using stimulant medications. Results on zinc alone are not as clear, but it works well for us.

4.) The amino acid tyrosine. Tyrosine is used to build the neurotransmitter dopamine. This is the same mechanism that stimulants like ritalin operate on. While some children may need serotonin increased instead of or in addition to the dopamine, for us tyrosine alone is very successful. (You can always try a serotonin promoting supplement as well, something like 5-HTP.) Again, a multi-vitamin is helpful here, as tyrosine requires B-vitamins for its synthesis into dopamine.

5.) Lecithin -- which is a cholinergic, that is it increases the amount of the neurotransmitter choline. We use lecithin granules. Others prefer capsules (but you need to take a lot of them) Research on a variety of cognitive deficits indicates that increased choline correlates with overall improved mental functioning. Some use the supplement DMEA, once sold as the prescription drug Deanol widely prescribed for ADHD in the pre-Ritalin days. A multi-vitamin is helpful here as well, since Vitamin B5 in particular is required to build choline.

There are many other vitamins, herbs, and supplements that can be helpful to ADHD symptoms, and despite the overwhelming length of this post, it's barely scratched the surface, but it does provide a starting point.

[Sharon]

Do you know much about L-Lysine?

[Mayleng]

Sharon said:

Do you know much about L-Lysine?

Sharon, I have moved your question over to "Amino Acid" thread where Ohmama tells me it belongs.

Pls check for any response over there.

Cat/Ohmama/or anybody else, pls post your responses over at Amino Acids.

Thanks

[Sharon]

once again, Mayleng. Of course it would be better under Amino Acids! Silly me. Thanks!

[DenverMom]

I put this under minerals because it's about the use of lithium. We are now working with a natropath who happens to be a recent aquaintence and it's our last resort before possibly looking at meds again (it's been back and forth back and forth). Anyway he has prescribed an additional fatty acid to the Omegas that I already give my son. Conjugated linoleic acid. Also he added a miniscule (5 micrograms) of lithium from a vegetable source (the brand name is LyZyme). I'm not holding my breath, but from the reading I've done on these items I am hopeful. I just wanted to post this as an FYI update for those who are interested. I'm giving it 'till 2005 to see if it gets my son where he needs to be.

He is already acting much more happy about school now that he has started to get special ed for his dyslexia! Maybe we can stay off the meds after all!

[ohmama]

Denver,
Lithium is a trace mineral that has positive effects on mood swings from highs to lows. Is it probably lithium orotate you are using as this does not require a prescription? Much different from the medication Lithium Carbonate (also a salt) that requires blood levels be drawn to find the correct and effective dose.

Your dose is so very small though! You can get pharmaceutical grade Lithium orotate from the Pain & Stress Center (1-800-669-2256) It is available in a dose of 120mg for $13.95. You can open the capsule and use a smaller amount if you want. I tried this first thing in the morning dissolved in a glass of distilled water on an empty stomach. It had no effect on my boy even at full dose. Lithium orotate is said to be about 20 times more bioavailable than other lithium salts thus, a smaller quantity is needed. Each 120mg capsule provides 4.8mg of elemental lithium.

My heart is with you. I hope you will see good results.

[DenverMom]

Thanks OhMama!
Like I said I'm not holding my breath but I do think there's a possibility it could help. Especially because of the fact that it is used as a natural sub for the harsh lithium used for bi-polar. I wouldn't at all be surprised if he was in fact more on the bi-polar side than the ADHD simply because 3 of four grandparents on my side were alchies. Both my parents are alchies, I'm an alchy ((recovering) and his dad and dad's mom are too (probably his dads dad too but he disappeared). That's a scary possibility too....I would rather have him be ADHD only! Sigh. We shall see

[lovemykids]

I found this info, just thought I'd share since it was an easy read...

www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-016a.shtml#poor

Lovemykids

[lovemykids]

Catatonic,

I was wondering how much Tyrosine you give?

My DD needs to increase Dopamine and I was wondering about dosage.

I also wonder if I will have to print all this out to give to the Dr!

[catatonic]

Tyrosine has been very successful for us. I do a rotating schedule with it, giving it for 4 weeks, then taking 2 weeks off. I also use a protein powder at the same time, to avoid throwing my son's amino acids out of balance. He takes 500mg twice a day. I have a list of clinical studies on tyrosine in my files somewhere, which I will try to locate and post some references for you (and your doctor).

[lovemykids]

Catatnic,

Thank you for your input. I appreciate all the help you have given with your knowledge! I look forward to the reading material whenever you get a chance.

And thank you everyone else for the posts that let us all know we are not alone in dealing with these things!

Lovemykids

[kerosene]

I have a question for the experts. My son has Bipolar and after researching, I started to give him low doses of zinc and B6 (along with a multivitamin). He had such a good response that I thought I would give my VERY ADHD daughter the zinc and a smaller dose of B6 to see if she has a positive reaction. She is also on Ritalin (absolutely necessary at this time) and I didn't read about any negative interactions between zinc/b6 and ritalin. She also takes a multivitamin.

Yesterday she skipped lunch because she didn't like what they had. She normally also takes her ritalin at lunch time. About an hour and a half later she told me that she was having heart palpations, racing thoughts, couldn't stop her foot from tapping, hands shaking. She has skipped lunch before and never had a problem. I'm wondering if you think the zinc may be the culprit. I think I've read that it enhances the stimulant effect.

I did not give her the vitamin supplements today, and lectured her not to skip lunch again. I was wondering what your thoughts were about the zinc/B6 relative to ADHD...?

[catatonic]

Kerosene,
My understanding of the study done on zinc and ritalin was that children given zinc in addition to ritalin experienced greater behavioral improvement than those given ritalin alone. As far as I know, even long-term overuse of zinc won't cause the symptoms you describe. Make sure that if you are using zinc supplements, that you include a multi-vitamin that contains 2mg copper and additional iron. Zinc supplementation can cause both low copper and low iron.

vitamin B6 shouldn't cause that type of problem either. Its usefuleness in ADHD is mixed...there is a subgroup of children who respond dramatically to B6 supplementation. These children tend to show worsening behavior when given Vitamin B1. For an equally large subgroup, however, Vitamin B6 results in worse behavioral symptoms. These children tend to improve on Vitamin B1.

I'd guess the Ritalin on an empty stomach was the culprit. Must have been scary for her!

[ohmama]

Kerosene,
What you describe sounds like my reaction to coffee. I just can't drink it at all especially on an empty stomach. Blood sugar goes wild with me if I don't eat, but not all the time.

I wonder if your thinking of magnesium and not zinc as affecting this type of medication? I don't think it's the zinc that made her feel that way. I think it was a combo of not eating and her blood sugar being low. Reaction to Ritalin on an empty stomach sounds like the problem. Check out this site and notice the part about magnesium....

kroger.com/HN_Drug/Mixed_Amphetamines.htm

[kerosene]

Thank you so much. I agree, I don't think it was the zinc per se, but I was thinking the zinc may have enhanced the effects of the ritalin... making the ritalin the ultimate culprit. She has skipped lunch many times before with ritalin on an empty stomach and not had this reaction. I always make sure she gets a good breakfast. But maybe this was just a quirk. She hasn't had a repeat since we stopped the supplements. I always lecture her about not eating. I think now she understands why it's so important. Thanks again. You guys are so knowlegeable about this stuff. I'm jealous. I'm reading everything I can find on alternative meds. This site is very helpful.

[ally]

Hello, I'm new here.
I'm so glad that I found this web site!! You have so much knowledge and I appriciate you share with us.

I have 6 year old son and he is ADHD.

We just started on the feingold program. I noticed several people are using this diet, so I would like to have some information about multivitamins.

What kind of multivitamins are you using?
They are fravored with orange, cherry and berries.
The flavor doesn't effect stage one?

I feel a little stupid to ask things like this, but since I cannot find the list of multivitamins on my food list , I need a help here.

Thank you.

[catatonic]

Hello and wlecome, Ally.

We also follow the Feingold diet. It is very successful for us, really miraculous.

Your Feingold material should have come with a "Supplement Guide". It's a separate list, the size of regular paper, about 8 pages long.

There are approved multi-vitamins in it from
Freeda ( www.freedavitamins.com )
Kirkman ( www.kirkmanlabs.com )
and a couple others. You might try posting your question on the Feingold board for more specific help.

For us, it's been very difficult to find a multi-vitamin that my son doesn't react to. Part of the problem is his extreme sensitivity to corn syrup/refined corn and part is that some vitamins themselves can cause reactions. (B6 is one to be particularly careful to test.)

The only thing I've found that he can tolerate is a generic multi-vitamin from the health food store, a Sun Harvest Basic Multi. It's not a chewable. The flavorings, even if natural, are generally high salicylate, and since we're permanent stage 1, we don't use them since they cause my boy to become more hyper. Can your son swallow pills? That's probably safest. If not, Freeda makes chewables and Kirkman makes a powder you stir into a drink.

[ally]

Cat----- Thank you for your reply.

I finally found my supplement guide.
I just remembered that my daughter took it to read in her room.
Eventhough, there are so many supplement to choose from that guide, I really appreciate you recomended 2 multi-vitamins.

I read almost all this board, and am just amazed at all the knowledge you have.
And thank you again for sharing with us.

[Mayleng]

ally said:

Cat----- Thank you for your reply.

I read almost all this board, and am just amazed at all the knowledge you have.
And thank you again for sharing with us.

Cat is amazing isn't she? We are very lucky to have her here.

[Heartlandmom]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this forum, but am very impressed with the knowledgable answers to the vitamin questions.
I would like to know what brands people are using to supplement the Vitamin E as well as Multi Vitamins.

Thanks for your help,
Hearland Mom

[catatonic]

For Vitamin E, any reputable name brand is probably fine to use. (I like brands that carry the GMP certification, like Now or Natural Factors, or certified pharmaceutical grade like Doctor's Best.)

I buy the "Now" brand Vitamin E for my family. Read the label on whatever you choose, though, to make sure you are getting a natural Vitamin E as opposed to one that is synthetic. If the label lists "d-alpha-tocopherol" then it is natural. If it says "dl-alpha-tocopherol" then it is synthetic. "Natural mixed tocopherols" are also acceptable.

Multi-vitamins are tricky for us. My son reacts badly to so many of them, so I've finally found one that he seems to do well on and that's all I buy for him. It's the Sun Harvest brand Basic Multi. It's an adult formulation, but since my son is 10 and weighs 95 pounds, he's big enough to take an adult vitamin. For younger/smaller children, you can also use adult vitamins if you select a two-a-day type and just give them one. For myself, I take the Now brand "Special Two" -- the one with "green super foods" that looks and smells like the alfalfa treats we give the horses! It's nutritionally comprehensive and has the added benefit of turning your pee neon yellow! Kirkman Labs also has a good line of multi-vitamins, for children and adults.

[Heartlandmom]

We have been using natural supplements for the last 2 years in order to help maintain my sons ADHD symptoms. Diet was first and that helped quite a bit. We use a simplied version of the Feingold diet. No wheat, no sugar, no preservatives and dyes at home. When we go out to eat or if he is at a friends, we do not monitor it as much, but do warn our friends no soft drinks. We have been using the ATTEND products for the last year, and have seen some benefits, but they do not have ratios of the ingrediants. We are going to take him off the these products because first of all they cost too much money and second, I need to be able to determine if he is getting the appropriate amount of nutrients. We have been consulting with a nutritionist, but intiuitively, I feel like there is still something missing. We tried one Omega product but it did not have the proper ratio of DHA and EPA. This sight has been the most informative that I have found and I wish I had found it before I purchased the last Omega product. I will be going to the Health Food Store to buy the Rx Omega 3, but I wanted to know if you could tell me what brand of Vitamin E you use as well. As you all probably already know, it takes forever to read through all of the bottles of vitamins on the shelves and I was hoping to reduce that time a little bit. Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[Mayleng]

I use the NOW brand of Vitamin E 100iu. I think Cat uses the same. Get mine from www.houseofnutrition.com

Cat gives 100iu everytime she gives the Omega3s - she splits it twice a day.

[Heartlandmom]

Thank you so much! I look forward to participating more on this site in the future. You are providing a wonderful service to so many of us that are desperate to help our little ones!

[ohmama]

I use the NOW E-200 (100% natural mixed tocopherols). With vitamin E, it could get confusing as it comes in eight different chemical forms, 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols (designated as alpha, beta, gamma, and delta). The experts say you need a full range of vitamin E, including both alpha and gamma types as well as tocotrienols to fully protect the brain. This is why I make the choice to get the "mixed tocopherols".

There is good information on this vitamin along with using its partner antioxidant Vitamin C together, in the book "Your Miracle Brain" by Jean Carper.

If you're a bargain shopper you can check out www.iherb.com for this and you will also find the RxOmega-3 Factors by Natural Factors at a good price with this company (anywhere from $13.50 to $15 for 120 softgels, depending on how many you order, free shipping too).

[Heartlandmom]

Thanks for the info. What brand and quantities of Vitamin C do you use?

[ohmama]

Heartland,
My boys are 11yrs old. I give them 500mg twice a day (not all at once because it's water soluble) of ascorbic acid from "Naturally Preferred" vitamin company 1-800-697-2448. I don't know if this brand is better than any other, it's just that it's available from a grocery store I shop at. I haven't had time to shop around and this one has no artificial coloring, flavoring, starch, yeast or preservatives. It does have 15mg of rose hips also. Some kids can have loose bowels at first from this but they adjust as their system gets used to it. If they are constipated this could be a plus.

Some outstanding books on the value and necessity of using vitamin C are "Nutrition and mental Illness an orthomolecular approach to balancing body chemistry" by Dr. Carl Pfeiffer. Also, "Excitotoxins the taste that kills" by Dr. Russell Blaylock. These books go into everything you could imagine about the brain.

[kc4braves]

Ok. I read throught the post on this thread but didn't find what I was looking for so decided to ask. What exactly should a multi-vitamin for an 8 yr old include? My son is not currently taking one and I would like to add it next. I had ordered Liquid Health but, apparently, not from a reputable website because I never received it. Anyway, is that a good vitamin or should I consider some others? I liked it because it is liquid and sounded good but you know anyone can promote anything well.

I like to order online because of better pricing and convenience but I know we have GNC and probably at least one health food store here if that would be better. I just need a guideline of what to look for.

Thanks, KAthy

[Heartlandmom]

I started my son on the RX Omega 3's and Vitamin E. So far so good, but he has been having a hard time getting to sleep. I already give him a magnesium supplement. I was wondering if anyone had the same reaction when starting Omega supplements. Thanks for all the great advice!

[Mayleng]

Heartlandmom said:

I was wondering if anyone had the same reaction when starting Omega supplements. Thanks for all the great advice!

I am not sure, but kcbraves said her son is sleeping better with the Omega3s.
By the way, you might get more response if you posted this question in the omega3s thread.