WISC IV GAI

[d]

The WISC is an IQ test. The WISC IV was issued about a year or so ago. By now, most school districts must use the IV version.

The WISC IV is a change from the III b/c working memory as well as a new measure, processing speed is now included in full scale IQ scores. Also, WISC IV scores were re-normed from the WISC III that can lower them a bit.

Many kids with ADHD have weak working memory and processing speed indices. Since it is now a factor in WISC IV it can FURTHER lower FSIQ scores for some of our kids. For school districts that live and die by the "discrepency formula", fewer kids may qualify for special ed since gaps between achievement and ability decrease using the WISC IV FSIQ.

While the publisher of the test maintains that these two measures remain important to assessing overall intelligence, they've softened their stance a bit. They've now developed a WISC "GAI" from the WISC IV which may be used as a surrogate FSIQ for kids that may have lower working memory and processing speed scores.

Here's the link for Harcourt Assessment's Technical Report #4 issued January 2005 on the WISC GAI:

harcourtassessment.com/hai/Images/pdf/wisciv/WISCIVTechReport4.pdf

[dihicks6]

I was so excited to find this, because my gs is this exact description -- ADHD and low processing and working memory scores, but perceptual reasoning at around 115, and I thought the FSIQ was too low (105). I went to the website, and boy, do I NOT understand statistics! But, not to worry, I have a family member working on it. She graduated with a degree in statistics -- hooray for me! I think when the company that publishes the test puts out something like this, it must mean a whole lot of people found a problem with it. Thanks for the website!

[Mayleng]

You can thank d/cmdm for that.

[snorkeler]

d,

Can you explain more about the GAI as far as using it

to understand our slow processor kids and their actual

IQ. My son had the WISC IV done last Nov. as part of

his three year re-eval, and I didn't understand it then

because it was new. The assessor couldn't help me with

my questions as too how it did or did not show progress

from his last WISC~which was the III. All he could tell

us was his current level of performance.

IF I ask them to do the GAI, will it really change

anything?

I think I'm asking how would it change the curriculum/or

IEP we made based on those WISC IV scores?

Would I be able to use that info to request more and

better SLP interventions? Or even ask them to use a

program like FastForward(instead of me paying for it)

to work on listening skills and following directions?

Thnks d !!

Snorkeler

[d]

On his WISC IV, you should have 4 cluster/index scores that comprise the FSIQ so you should have five scores altogether:

Perceptual Reasoning (PRI cluster)
Verbal Comprehension (VCI cluster)
Working Memory (WMI cluster)
Processing Speed (PSI cluster)
FSIQ (total IQ)

There were some minor changes between the WISC III and WISC IV that caused them to rename two clusters (from verbal and performance?) to Perceptual and Verbal. Basically - and a proper psych would slaughter me for butchering this explanation - the GAI uses the Perceptual (old performance) and Verbal clusters only making it more similar/comparable to a WISC III FSIQ score.

In the past working memory was measured (I think a bit differently) but NOT factored into the FSIQ.

Also, the processing speed index is a new cluster factored in to the FSIQ.

My dd's working memory is weak compared to her Perceptual and Verbal. Her processing speed was not too bad but not as strong as perceptual and verbal. On the WISC III neither effected her FSIQ but it brought down her WISC IV FSIQ. A weaker working memory score indicated that other memory (long term, short term) should be probed. My dd has problems following directions partly bc of working memory - the ability to hold a piece of info in her mind, long enough to apply it to another - she can't remember the directions. So that may make her look like she isn't listening when she was, give her problems with math that has lots of steps, etc.

The WISC IV GAI is important to schools who live and die by the "discrepency" model. Theoretically, that is downplayed if not done away with in IDEA 04. I'm not sure you could or should design an intervention around a WISC only - it's supposed to be clues about how a person's brain works. I would think, however, that if the WISC showed serious weakness in subtest or cluster scores, that would give rationale for more intensive remediation.

Bottomline is I don't know! I don't know much about processing speed, SLP interventions, etc. SharonF would. I hope she stops by and sees this.

[snorkeler]

Thanks for the clarification. It helps in understanding
why the schools use these tests.
I'm not sure anyone will ever understand slow processing, not in my life time anyway. LOL

Snorkeler

[4myaustin]

I am not sure how often Sharon F checks in here, but I do know she is a regular at this website,
www.schwablearning.org/
This is also a parents of children with LD's that go there for advice, etc.
If you post there, be prepared to put in what tests your child had, the scores and what services your child is currently receiving.
You will be amazed at the abundance of knowledge that will come your way.
Renee

[Mayleng]

Sharon F posts here when we need her.

[momika]

SO is the WISC GAI an entirely different test or just a different method of scoring that same test?

[d]

Different way of scoring the same WISC IV sub-stests.

Of interest, I saw two neuropscyhs give a talk to parents. I asked about this. At least in my area, a suburb of a major city, they say they have never seen or heard of the schools looking at GAI's but that they did as well as other neuropsychs they knew.

[swmom]

I'll send sharonf an email re: this post.

[sonomaval]

I am looking for some help interpreting test results. Cant remember where I posted before and found someone who could help so if anyone has any ideas let me know. I can see from this thread, that the drop in my son's IQ from last testing (16 points) was probably at least partly due to the change from WISC III to WISC IV since processing speed and coding are ver low. He scored a 5 in both this time which was lower than on his last pych eval done 3 years ago but I am trying also to figure out if he has regressed. Also trying to figure out if these scores will cause school to dispute the LD he currently has in math. If anyone here can help I will post all of the scores

[Mayleng]

There are lots of people on www.schwablearning.org who is very good at reading test results.

[d]

Hi sonomaval.

ITA with Mayleng.

Given ADHDers' not uncommon weaker working memory and processing speed indices, that could explain your ds' 16 point FSIQ drop from WISC III to WISC IV.

There was also an adjustment in the WISC IV test, so it's not uncommon for a small percentage drop between III and IV WISC scores for "neurotypical" kids' scores with/without ADHD or LD.

And when you "hit it right", there are several posters on schwab who are brilliant with WISC interpretations, so definitely post scores there and see if you get any good "bites"!

[liisa]

Hi,
I am posting for the first time.  My daughter was tested privately when she was 7 years 8 months as we were a bit worried about some word finding issues but there was nothing notable.  She had difficulty learning to read but I trained in Orton-Gillingham and worked with her and she has done well in school - reads and writes above grade level.  Her scores at that age resulted in GAI of 90 - or 99th %ile.  Verbal Comprehension Index - SS 130 - 98th %ile; PRI - SS 132 - 98th %ile.  Her processing speed and working memory were lower (PS SS 100 - 50th %ile; WMI  SS 103, 58th %ile) with low scores in coding (SS 7 16th %ile) and digit span (SS 8 - 25th %ile)- At that time we did not move ahead with any gifted placement/designation as she was quite happy where she was.  Her older brother has been in a gifted program since grade 3 as he really needed it.  She is now in grade 7 and we are looking ahead to high school and there is a wonderful gifted program that I think she would do very well in.  We brought in the report and the school said it was too old (it was 4 years ago).  They said they would retest which they did and her scores no longer qualify her.  They said that testing at age 7 years 8 months is not stable.

They said she was 98th %ile in Verbal Comprehension but only 77th %ile in Perceptual Reasoning.  I asked for the sub-test scores - they only gave me the percentiles - and they were definitely significantly lower than when she was tested the first time around.  

Block Design Subtest score 11 (63rd %ile)  NOW 91st %ile
Matrix Reasoning Subtest Score 16 (98th %ile) NOW 37th %ile
Picture Concepts Subtest score 18 (99.6 %ile) NOW 75th %ile

Do you know any reason why these sub-test scores would drop so much?

Any help would be most appreciated.  We have a meeting on Monday to discuss.

Thank you,
Liisa