Dyslexia does not disappear

[dw]

Dyslexia does not go away.  
My dtr is a middle 20's adult, and for this creative person who loves to use words, the moderately impairing dyslexia will be with her long after I am gone.  The spelling issues still bring on stinging criticism from others, and she is happy her present job requires very little writing.
I asked a couple of people at my job who are responsible for hiring, if they would hire someone like my dtr with dyslexia, needing to use accommodation soft ware like dragon and Kruzweil, and the answer was "no," not unless the job candidate was particularly fantastic in all other ways.  
I also read that 80% of the public in the US think that people with dyslexia are slow learners with limited intellect.
Anybody have thoughts or experiences or words of encouragement?

[shawbridge]

dw, I live in a family of dyslexics -- my wife and son, her father and two of her three siblings. Her father was told he was stupid when he was in high school (and if not before) and became a successful serial entrepreneur. My wife and her sister became artists. My wife is quite successful, though her weakness in writing probably causes her to apply for fewer awards and residencies than she might have if she were dyslexic. Her brother is a tenured professor of molecular biology and a very good university. He used to come home during school breaks, get sick, and sleep on the couch for a few days. My son found reading and writing physically painful but that has gone away and he can spell if he needs to but it is very tiring. He prefers to dictate to a person to typing to dictation software. But, by using the help available to him and an excess amount of drive, he graduated summa cum laude from one of the best schools in the US, started a software company (that is still running) and now is in grad school at one of the best schools in the world.

What they do is play to their strengths. Choose schools with no distribution requirements, majors without tons of reading, choose jobs that minimize reading and writing and play to their strengths. My wife's is making things. My son has a number of strengths including math which is really useful for computational and mathematical engineering, thinking strategically, and motivating people. He's concluded that he could not work at a big company synthesizing written information and writing it up in memos or slides. He believe he could be a good CEO, but he could never rise through the ranks. So, instead, he'll focus on starting companies.

That would be my primary advice --she should try to craft a career that increasingly plays to your daughter's strengths. The second piece of advice follows from something I told my son in 2nd grade, when his dyslexia was first obvious. I told him that he was very smart but that he'd have to work harder than everyone else for the rest of his life to show his strengths.

[healthy11]

I'm sorry to admit that when I was younger, I was among the 80% who assumed that people with learning disabilities were slower learners with limited intellect. Then I became a parent to a child who clearly was bright, and a quick learner in some areas, but definitely slower in others. When he was finally identified as having dyslexia and ADHD, I became part of the other 20% to realize that people with LDs may learn differently, but still have many gifts and abilities. In Shawbridge's case, his personal experience with dyslexia came via his wife, before they had children.

I remember sitting at my son's public school IEP eligibility meeting, alongside one of his private gifted school English teachers who was there to show examples of my son's illegible work. I never cared for that teacher when my son had him, because he seemed insensitive and inflexible. That teacher admitted afterwards that he knew all the students at the private gifted school had to meet certain IQ criteria, but he never guessed my son was far above the minimum, and doing so well in math and science, because it seemed like he was barely getting by in language arts. I think that instructor also "became one of the 20%" after the meeting.

Along those same lines, my husband now is an adjunct professor at a local college, and he immediately knew what kind of response was appropriate when a student stated that he needed accommodations. (My dh didn't ask what the kid's diagnoses were at the time, though he later shared some of the kid's idiosyncrasies with me...for example, the guy refused to work on any paper that had a wrinkle or didn't lay completely flat. I have to guess he had some kind of anxiety disorder and/or OCD, but it didn't matter...my husband said the guy was otherwise a good student.)

Unfortunately, I believe most people need to have some direct contact with individuals who have LDs, before they realize that the stereotype of limited capabilities isn't accurate. It's not fair, but it's life. When individuals are able to demonstrate their strengths, as Shawbridge stated, then people around them are less apt to think about the weaknesses. I suspect it's along the same lines as when researchers state that emotionally, it takes 4 or 5 positive comments to offset a negative one. davidkanigan.com/2012/08/29/you-need-4-positives-to-offset-1-negative/

I realize that your daughter doesn't live close to you anymore, but I wonder if next time she's in town, could she meet you with some of your co-workers, so they might see first-hand how a person with LDs is able to effectively function and manage. Your daughter probably doesn't want to work at the same facility that you do, anyway, but it could enable your peers to reconsider any other applicants who admit to having learning differences.

[michellea]

My understanding of "smart" and "good student" changed as a mother of a son who is profoundly dyslexic. Although I knew intellectually that "reading ability" and "attention" were separate from intellectual horsepower and IQ, in my heart I equated reading and efficient academic output as "smart". I now know differently.

That said, I recognize that my son's profile lends itself to certain occupations better than others. He would not be successful in a typical entry level job that requires exacting, desktop work. Like Shawbridge notes, he would be better suited as a CEO. Since most established companies wouldn't hire him as a CEO - he will most likely start his own business in a field that will capitalize on his strengths and interests. Yesterday, he snagged an internship with a top company in his field. In his discussion he disclosed that he had dyslexia. One of the interviewers admitted that he did as well and was doubly impressed with my son's GPA (3.67) given his learning disabilities. I'm not sure I would have disclosed in an initial interview, but my son said that many people in his field have dyslexia and felt that it would be appropriate. Since he got the job offer, I guess he was right!

My daughter, although not dyslexic, is a slow processor and has some memory difficulties. When it comes to school work, she needs extra time and must use specific strategies to attend to details. She does fairly well in school - but has to work at it. She said just last week that her past employers think she is a lot smarter than her professors do. As an employee she is able to leverage her problem solving skills, initiative, interpersonal skills and leadership - for the most part, these skills are not as important in academia (although helpful when self advocating and working in groups).

[jisp]

I think so much depends on the specifics nature of the learning disability. Remember dyslexia is a broad category encompassing a wide range of deficits related to reading. Two dyslexics can be completely different.  There are fast processors, slow processors, those who struggle with memory, those who are visual and those who are more verbal.  Our middle son, had a diagnosis of dyslexia, but he also had other learning challenges and strengths that outweighed some of his weaknesses. Because he struggled so much and because he had some pretty dramatic failures he was fortunate to receive some very targeted and specific interventions to help him with his deficits.

Today as a graduate student he has to write. He has written published papers. Even though his field is mathematical biology there is a certain amount of writing in these papers to explain the concepts and how the mathematical techniques are being used.  Now when I read them I can only understand the first few sentences......the mathematics and science is beyond me. But we have a friend in another field that uses a lot of the same mathematics in his field, who read our son's papers and was thrilled by the ideas in them. One of the papers our son wrote has been cited multiple times already. So I assume they make some sense to those who know the math.

My other son who is a musician is also dyslexic and ADD. He also can write and has had an essay he wrote published in a journal.   He benefits from multiple edits and spending time with a piece of writing that he cares about. One thing that has helped him a lot is he loves to read. He is not a fast reader and attending conservatory means he can read what he wants at a comfortable speed. But he has read almost as much as an undergraduate  would who was attending a liberal arts college simply by forcing himself to tackle difficult fiction and non-fiction. He likes ideas.

I am the same way. I am dyslexic and never received any remediation as a child, but I also love to write. I need to rewrite and rewrite a lot. But when I take the time I can indeed end up with something I am quite proud of that others enjoy and like.

DW, If your daughter enjoys language and words than she needs to do two things to strengthen her writing. First she needs to force herself to READ and READ and READ. Then she needs to write. The more she writes the better she will get. If she has a defeatist attitude about her dyslexia it will only send her on a downward spiral.  There are plenty of examples of dyslexics who have gone to achieve incredible things including the prolific writer Winston Churchill.  I think sometimes what is harder than the dyslexia is the emotional challenges that evolve in conjunction with the dyslexia.  Sometimes just thinking that something is going to cause you to fail is enough to lead you to failure.

Another thing to remember is that EVERYONE has some handicap or challenge.  As far as challenges go dyslexia is not the most limiting or challenging.




 

[dw]

Thanks for the encouraging words. If only math and science could be an alternative pathway, but there is a math issue, too, dyscalcula. Too bad, because she finds science topics very interesting, but tried environmental science and could not get through the math. This was before she went to Landmark and got an understanding of her learning issues. But, she decided she cannot do science, and now is pretty firm in that belief.
Last week, I heard she was considering going to art school, a long dream deferred due to paralyzing fears of the criticism that is part of formal art education, she loves clay and pots (not pot, but pots.) The emotional fragility seems to be less, so that is why dd is considering it.
A few days later, she is thinking more about social work and being a psychotherapist due to having success in her job (a psychiatric hospital) and finding the field really interesting.
I like the art school idea, as I understand it, there are more than a few art students with dyslexia. Its really where she belongs, but she has wider interests, too. She loves working with children, but teaching positions are nearly impossible to get in the rural state where she lives, and very poorly paid.
I think she'd be a good art teacher, and/or art therapist. I might express my opinion if I am asked. But I am keeping the duct tape on my mouth for a later time.
She does read a lot, always has. And she writes very well, in my opinion, with really well developed paragraphs and sentences, organization, but the spelling sometimes makes it hard to read. She avoids writing now due to her spelling problems, though she just got a new version of dragon to use.She is very phobic about spelling, and I think this is quite inhibiting.

She's a work in progress. I need to keep the duct tape on, as I have been trying to do, for a couple of years, and only say encouraging things. I need to find faith that she will figure it all out.

[healthy11]

((hugs)) dw. I remember when people expressed surprise that I chose a career in engineering, since "it's such a tough field for women." In my opinion, being a mother is far more difficult! Hang in there!!

[jisp]

DW, Tufts/SMFA has a wonderful art-teacher training program that is very hands on. The students take studio art classes, they go out and work in the community. It is a one year program and I suspect your daughter would love it.

I am glad you are keeping the duct tape on. She will find her way. She has a lot of talents and the dyslexia/dyscalcia are probably not the obstacles she makes them out to be. If she was motivated I suspect she could figure out how to learn or work around any of her challenges. The trick is she has to be motivated and she has to decide she really wants something badly enough to fight for it. More often than not other issues such as anxiety and depression get in the way of this happening. Keep encouraging her and reminding her that you are there to support her and you believe that once she decides WHAT she wants to do she can do it.

And if art school is a long deferred dream than my advice is for you to encourage her to GO FOR IT!!!! If she is deep down an artist than that will never go away. Critique in art school is not what most people think. Nobody will ever tell her "That is good" or "That is bad". A typical critique involves people commenting on what they see that is working in a piece and what they see might not be working (or ways the piece could be made stronger). Often in a critique the teacher (if they are at all good) will tell the student to go look at artists whose work might relate to what they are doing. Somebody might suggest the student try a new medium or work at a different scale (larger or smaller). Suggestions are often positive rather than negative. More importantly ALL students in a class are critiqued so a student can see that everyone is being given ideas about how to improve their work. And everyone is being told that there work has some positive quality in it.

[dw]

Thanks again.
Healthy, its so true about how difficult it is to be a parent, always shifting gears.
I am reading a good book about a psychotherapy method called EMDR that treats PTSD. It says that approx. 35% of parents are inadequate in meeting the emotional health needs of their offspring! I did not realize that this number was so high. BTW, for those suffering from the after effects of emotionally traumatic experiences, or physically traumatic experiences with emotional consequences, including all gradations of PTSD, this method, EMDR has lots of data behind it showing its effectiveness. EMDR stands for Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing.

Jisp, yes, yes, anxiety is a big, big ongoing problem. This young person started out life as a very anxious baby and needed lots of calming down, decreases in stimulation; school experiences contributed. Finally, fortunately, she is getting professional help for it.
I had looked at the SMFA, too. I don't know if she would extract herself from her rural state. She mentioned going to community college for art classes, needs a portfolio. But, as you said, again, so perceptive and wisely, she needs the motivation to push her through.
Many thanks and happy new year for a healthy 2016 to you all.