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Post by healthy11 on Sept 5, 2013 9:57:40 GMT -5
"In the smaller school, there will only be 5 students in 10th grade with only one girl..."
Are you saying your daughter would be the only girl, or that there is another girl? In either case, if she attends that school, you might want to try to get her involved in other social activities where she can be around more females (perhaps a youth group at your church or synagogue, etc.)
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Post by fc11 on Sept 5, 2013 13:49:31 GMT -5
there is currently one female student, but I ruled out that school because it is too small, I think 33 students..I assume they will take almost anyone. She does have extracurricular activities, but mostly with kids 2 years younger than her, she always feels that a reason she can't make friend with her own age is that she is not as smart as other kids. It is really sad as she learns fast in a 1:1 basis and has a very good memory.
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Post by kewpie on Sept 5, 2013 14:04:30 GMT -5
>I assume they will take almost anyone< That is unlikely. It would not be in their best interest to take kids they cannot help.
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Post by hsmom on Sept 9, 2013 13:53:15 GMT -5
I am assuming that both Craig School and Community School are still accepting students for the the Sophomore class for this academic year. Have you asked them? Several schools that I know are full for this year and are not accepting any more students.
And, Kewpie is right. A good LD school only accepts students who fit the profile of students that they can work with and who can work within the group of existing students.
I have a son (15 years old, freshman) who just started at a ld school with 150+ students. He is finding it hard and tiring as he negotiates his day at a school with greater number of students and teachers, different academic buildings, a more rigid schedule, and a lot of structure. He was at a small ld school (less than 50 students) with one dorm, one academic building, where he knew everyone (both students and teachers) and everyone knew him. I know that once he realizes that he can succeed at this new school and that he makes new friends, he will be ok. However, it's taking him time to feel comfortable being there.
My son is at the bigger school because he had outgrown the smaller one. I would not have chosen this school as the first school for him to attend. He had a more individualized curriculum at his old school as the teachers, the schedule, and student groupings were more flexible. Classes cut across grade levels to match student needs.
What I am saying is that if the school/teachers are good, a smaller school can be just as good as a bigger one.
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Post by fc11 on Sept 9, 2013 17:13:06 GMT -5
both school will accept sophomore (I think the reason for one of the school was because she is a female)...I have talked to DD and will let her decide..while the other school is bigger with 180 students, the class size is 5 to 6, and they will add an additional teacher if the class size goes above 6... She "does not" have behavior problem nor autistic, hence I think most of the schools will accept her... However, my concern is more on the "lower" standard due to the LD school setting...I went back and forth on this...
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Post by empeg1 on Sept 9, 2013 20:10:47 GMT -5
I suggest that you let your dd spend a day at each school as this is the best way for her to see which school fits her best
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Post by fc11 on Sept 9, 2013 22:46:21 GMT -5
yes, she will spend a day at the larger school (around 180 students) this week. I ruled out the smaller school as there is only one level for each grade, I raised my concerns and the director of admissions told me that in an ideal world, he wished there were more students and then he could arrange more than one level of courses in each grade. in the larger school, they have approximately 45 students per grade, which means they have about 7 to 9 classes, I suspect it will be easier for them to move her around...However, they suspect that they may put her in the highest level of each class.....
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Post by michellea on Sept 10, 2013 8:46:22 GMT -5
fc11, If you decide to enroll your daughter in one of the schools, it will be essential that you are on board with her being there. The pace may seem slower than what she would get in a large, college prep class, but often this is because they are teaching to mastery - and they are using the content to teach the underlying skills such as reading comprehension, writing, critical thinking and organization. As you know, without these underlying skills, she will always have difficulty in an academic environment. In a comprehensive high school, the teachers assume that students have these skills and do not take the time to teach them.
While I am not familiar with the schools you are looking at, I can assure you that students that attend LD schools can go on to great academic institutions. I have a friend who's son was accepted at Dartmouth, NYU and other elite colleges from Landmark HS a private LD school in my area. He was in some top tier groupings at Landmark, but not all. Landmark tailored his placement to his profile and this is the beauty of a LD school and what you should expect from a school your daughter might attend. You have to have trust in the school in order to make it work. If you do not, your daughter will pick up on your misgivings and feelings to her detriment. I'm not saying that you should never question school decisions and that you should be totally hands off - but you should realize that they are in fact experts at what they do, and the amount of push back and contention should be much much less than what you experience now at a public school or non LD private school.
Remember - this is why you are considering these schools.
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Post by empeg1 on Sept 10, 2013 21:10:53 GMT -5
I strongly suggest that you have your dd attend both schools before you rule out either one. Remember, it is your teen who will attend the school. It is important that she see which school seems like a better fit for her, not you. I would not rule out a small school.
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Post by beth on Sept 10, 2013 21:34:40 GMT -5
I would not eliminate either school before your dd attends both but maybe for somewhat different reasons. I think it is important that your daughter feels like she has some choices. Also, I think the process of deciding is a useful one. My ds was younger--only 10--when we looked into a school change. We had him make a list of three pros and three cons. My husband and I did it as well. It was interesting and made it clear what the best choice was. I think it helped my son too when there were some rough spots at first.
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Post by hsmom on Sept 11, 2013 16:23:22 GMT -5
FC11,
To me you've already made up your mind that you would like your daughter to go to Craig, the bigger school. I agree with Beth, Michellea, and Empeg that you need to allow your daughter to visit both schools and make her own decision. Her ownership of this decision will be very important.
Last fall, the first school that my son applied to and was accepted at was Gow, the school he's currently at. Two weeks after the interview and acceptance, my son told me that he hadn't made up his mind yet and that he needed more time and some choice. I know that he was told by some boys that he shouldn't chose Gow just because his school/headmaster and I thought that it was a great next step for him. So I asked for more time for him to respond to Gow, had him apply to a new high school in Chicago, and put staying at the school he was attending (which now had a high school) on the table. And, during Thanksgiving Break, after we had time to talk as a family, my son made his decision. He decided to go to Gow.
He's going through a tough transition at Gow now; he's in his second week there. However, although I hear a lot of complaints (of how Gow is not like his old school), he is persevering and figuring things out for himself because he wants to do well at Gow and make new friends as he chose to be there.
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Post by michellea on Sept 22, 2013 10:19:27 GMT -5
FC11 - Just checking in to see where you are with the school choices for your daughter. Has she been able to visit either school and does she have a preference either way? How does it match up with what you are thinking?
I was also wondering if you have put things in place to ask for funding? I hope that everything is moving forward in a positive way, that you are feeling optimistic and that your daughter will be able to make what appears to be a needed (and exciting) change.
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Post by kewpie on Sept 23, 2013 12:19:57 GMT -5
This fall, a friend of mine placed her son in a small sped high school as a junior and he is loving it. He is so much more relaxed and involved.
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Post by hsmom on Sept 23, 2013 20:32:34 GMT -5
FC11,
We haven't heard from you for a while. I hope you didn't take my last posting as a harsh comment or criticism, but more as a helpful idea of letting your daughter have a part in the decision making process.
Has your daughter has had a chance to visit Craig and/or Community School? What does she think of the school? Do let us know.
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Post by fc11 on Sept 24, 2013 15:53:51 GMT -5
Sorry, I haven't been updating, because I haven't made up my mind.... She visited the larger sped school, I have decided not to visit the smaller sped school because I really don't think it is suitable for her, then we have the problems with pick up and drop off. So we are going back to the two schools, one is the private all girls school and the other is the special ed school. For the private all girls school, she attended for about 40 minutes for two class period at the end of the last school year, it was the day before the exam, hence there is really not much for her to see, but we stayed there for 1/2 day and chatted with the administrators. For the sped school, she spent a day. If she were to choose, she would pick the regular ed school, but didn't really "care" (her word) whether she goes to the sped school...however, based on what she told me, I felt that the curriculum will be too easy for her...but it was the third day of school, hence there is a chance that they were just reviewing...I like the administrators, but then I am not sure whether I want to put her in a more restrictive environment.
Keep in mind, DD has a lot of remediation from home...she has private tutors, FFW, LMB. Say one example, she talked to me was that the social studies teacher taught the students to use outline to write a summary, but it took the class nearly the whole period to learn, and she said she could have finished in 2 minutes....I talked to a neuropsych, who spent about 15 minutes to look at her standardized test result and told me that she suspected DD may be too high functioning for the sped school. But I have a reservation with the neuropsych...
I have found a speech specialist and she will begin in October to work with DD, I will see whether it helps her.. the district is providing her the 1:1 daily meeting with a special ed teacher, however, from what I observed, he is trying to help her with her tests and quizzes
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Post by bros on Sept 24, 2013 16:27:32 GMT -5
What if you do the sped school and slowly ramp down the at-home services you provide for her and see how she does?
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Post by michellea on Sept 24, 2013 16:30:46 GMT -5
Fc11 - The beauty of a specialized LD school is that you can drop the private remediation and allocate that time to developing interests, and going back to being mom, not tutor. Plus, when the skills are delivered in an integrated, realtime manner in school and not as an adjunct after school and in isolation, the student has a better chance of practicing and generalizing the skills so she can become independent more quickly. She will learn the skills better when presented daily, across the curriculum and she has a chance to practice them in different subjects with experts supporting her all day long.
I have noticed that you have been very reluctant to consider a specialized school since you began posting on millermom. One of your first evaluations recommended an OOD placement and you did not agree. In a DP case, the district offered to place her in an LD school, and you said no. Yet, when you post scores and give descriptions about your daughter's functioning, it is clear that you are worried and that she struggles greatly to keep up and make grade level progress. I am not sure what you mean by she would be too high functioning. Do you mean IQ or academic skills? Most LD schools accept only average to above students with LD's. My son's IQ is in the high average to superior range. From that respect I can tell you that he is very high functioning. However, the presence of his LD's means that learning is much harder and slower. Raw intelligence, or functioning ability is not a good test of a student's need for remedial help. You have posted about your daughter's difficulty mastering complex material, with certain comprehension skills, with writing skills. It seems that she could use some help - and that a supportive environment would give her the confidence she needs and alleviate some of your stress and worry.
I would be very careful about making her transition yet again to an environment that may not be able to support her. As you consider the all girls school, please remember that if she falters or fails, this will be another indication to her that she is not capable. I would consider her emotional health and yours when sorting through the options. I cannot believe that a traditional school would be as well equipped to deliver remediation to a student that is so clearly struggling as a specialized school. I know I am biased because of my son's experience and my experience as an advocate. But, I have never seen a general ed private school deliver better LD services than an LD school.
If you cannot reconcile her need for specialized help, I would suggest that she stay where she is, and you can figure out how to give her space and make the best of it. I do think that you may be overlooking a great opportunity for you daughter by letting your bias against special ed schools get in the way.
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Post by fc11 on Sept 24, 2013 20:22:51 GMT -5
Michellea,
I will think over your suggestion, but a quick note.. When I picked her up, she told me that if she were to stay in the sped school, she wouldn't have to study...I suspect it may be true...One reason of sending her to the sped school is that I can be mom again...my neuropsy told me when I began to teach her, our relationship changed, it is so true...I realized I have fought the wrong battle, I asked them to provide me to material so that I can teach or find someone to teach, but then they should be teaching them. It is what I am thinking now that I keep her in her current school and see whether providing her extra speech will help.
bros, If I were to put her in the sped school, I won't be teaching her.she needs to learn on her own
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Post by jisp on Sept 25, 2013 6:25:11 GMT -5
fc11, I wanted to tag on to what Michellea said. I am too lazy right now to go back and review your daughter's scores etc.... But I can speak to the concern about the Sped school being too easy. I have a son who is very bright. And it was always clear to everyone who met him from the time he was a small boy that he was very intelligent. And yet he had significant LDs. I myself, have LDs and attended an Ivy League college, so I knew all too well the cost of ignoring remediation and the price our son would eventually pay if I allowed that to happen.
Our son spent time in two LD placements. One 5-7th grade and the other in High School. At both placements academics were too easy for our son. The advantage of this was that our son was not wasting time spinning the "gerbil wheel" to keep up with his peers and instead he had extra energy to focus on the challenging and difficult task of learning to overcome his weak areas. So on the surface it looked like he was falling behind his peers in regular mainstream education. And he was. But the catch is that he was gaining "super powers" that would allow him to surpass them and excel. Keep in mind that most kids are not self aware enough to know how much their weak areas are impacting them. More importantly the mind has a tendency to avoid those things that are hard if other parts of the mind can compensate. So although your daughter thinks the work is too easy it might be because she is using non-sustainable strategies to overcome those weak areas and has managed to avoid confronting those areas that really do trip her up.
I remember talking to one of the heads of the lower and middle school about our son in 6th grade. I was concerned that our son was not getting the academic enrichment that our son craved and this woman (who is an amazing educator) told me to be patient. She reminded me that learning is not linear. She pointed out that our house was full of books and ways for our son to expand and grow intellectually....at the time our son was building robots with legos using a textbook they use in an intro robotics course at MIT. She pointed out that if our son were in a mainstream class he would not have the intellectual energy to explore his interests after school. She also reminded us that meanwhile our son had weak areas that had to be worked on if in the long run he was going to succeed.
Another way to think about....if you have an assembly line and one of the stations on that assembly line is particularly slow or prone to mistakes then even if the rest of the assembly line is efficient and doing excellent work, the product at the end might still be flawed. So it is important that you address that station on the assembly line and work to make it more efficient and less prone to mistakes. When you are doing that the other stations might feel like they are not having to work as hard and be frustrated by the slow pace, but once that glitch in the assembly line is fixed, the assembly line will no longer have to be paused or stopped and the product it produces will be consistent and well made.
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Post by kewpie on Sept 26, 2013 9:32:38 GMT -5
>Keep in mind that most kids are not self aware enough to know how much their weak areas are impacting them. More importantly the mind has a tendency to avoid those things that are hard if other parts of the mind can compensate. So although your daughter thinks the work is too easy it might be because she is using non-sustainable strategies to overcome those weak areas and has managed to avoid confronting those areas that really do trip her up.< So True!! I have 3 kids with different LD's and this is something they all have in common. My sons are adults and due to their exectuive funtioning disbilities they still don't have a good handle what they can handle and what they can't. Advocating for themselve is a nightmare. My dd had poor executive funtioning issues but they were remediated with the Arrowsmith program last year and NOW she is self aware and can advocate for herself very effectively. She is back in the mainstream and is poised on a straight A average for the past quarter. Another important point, many LD kids have higher strengths that cannot be accessed due to lower lovel disabilities. This is where the LD style of teaching comes into play. My oldest ds has very high level logic scores BUT due to his poor short term memory and poor auditory processing skills, he needs a teaching style that uses repetition and a small classroom.
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Post by kewpie on Sept 26, 2013 10:16:54 GMT -5
I also wanted to point out that before my sons attended LD schools, I too had given them lots of after school interventions like Lindamood bell programs and intereactive metronome etc but it just wasn't enough to keep them up to grade level with peers. Homework was nightmare, especially with the oldest and it hurt out relationship. It was so stressful to work all day, go to tutoring, come home and try to do homework, cook dinner, do chores and take care of a baby that I had no patience left. Going to an LD school changed all that. Even tho the transportation was difficult, it was still better than the "former life" in public school. Is there by any chance an Arrowsmith program in your neck of the woods? I know they have some schools in the north east. The only downside is that your dd would miss classroom instruction. In High school that woud mean that she woud have to come back and take required courses to get the diploma. Arrowsmith strictly works on cognitive exercises and strenthening the brain so it can function in a regular classroom or work environment. At first, it scared me that my dd would miss a year of instruction(it was 8th grade) but it turns out, it didn't matter as she is doing extremely well in 9th grade. In fact, I am so impressed that I am sending my 22 year old son.
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Post by jisp on Sept 26, 2013 18:29:05 GMT -5
Kewpie, We gave our youngest son a year off of school in 8th grade. I knew that if I kept in school he would be too tired and too busy to work on the skills I knew he needed to work on. So we "homeschooled" him for a year. Except that the only curriculum he did was math. He met with a tutor twice a week and worked on writing and executive function skills. It was the smartest decision I ever made. That kid entered HS and instead of drowning he was able to excel. Another advantage of that year off was 1: Our son got bored and learned a lot about himself and his likes and dislikes 2: He was able to make huge amounts of progress on his instrument and that in turn put him a position to get into the top music groups at school.
To be honest not much is actually learned in 8th grade that can not be learned in a shorter amount of time when the child is older and their brain is a bit more developed. In fact the same can be said about HS. My middle son failed HS. He repeatedly failed and struggled with the way HS math was taught. By his senior year he had yet to pass an Algebra 2 class. Today he is a math major and a senior in college and he has more than caught up with his peers. Yes he had to work extra hard at one point....but a more mature brain can learn almost all of HS calculus in a few months rather than an entire year.
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Post by kewpie on Sept 30, 2013 12:43:15 GMT -5
Jisp, That was a brave decision. It just goes to show that conventional wisdom is always that wise!
I felt a LOT of trepidation about missing that grade as did my dd about returning to "regular" school while missing that year. When report cards come, dd wants to send a copy to her old RSP from middle school as well as the private school that did not accept her. I can't blame her for wanting to show off her new and awesome brain!
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