NVLD of 16 year old and mentally capable of consent

[ashlyn]

I hope that I am writing this in order to get some help from other parents who have a teenager with a Non verbal Learning Disorder because I have no one locally to help me. Here is my story....
My daughter (was 15 at the time) was chatting with a man (who was 19 at the time) on Facebook without me knowing through her phone. We live in Kentucky, he lived in Florida. My daughter drops this bomb that this  "man" was moving here to be with her...so he actually does...even after me telling him verbally on the phone DO NOT COME... and has no money...no job...got here on a bus.  I took away my daughters phone, all internet access and watched her as best as I could but she found a way to see him. He was staying illegally at the local park hiding in a boat house so every morning  on her way to school  (we live a block away from school!) she would "meet up" with him... if you know what I mean. This was quickly caught by me and the police and this "man" was arrested by the police for criminal trespassing and rape second degree.
The problem is my daughter has never received any attention from boys because of her NVLD and is considered "odd"...which of course she is not... she is a highly intelligent young lady but socially has issues and this "man" has promised her the moon and she is head over heals for him and said she "wanted" to have a physical relationship with him.
I believe because of her NVLD, AHDH and OCD (she becomes fixated on people and objects...almost totally engrossed) that she does not understand the implications of her actions  and beliefs and no matter what I have said to her... or the police has said to her... that she will change her mind on him and him on her.
Now the police has told me is that if her Psychiatrist does not write a letter stating that she is not mentally capable to give consent to sex that the man will be let go and the rape charge dropped... and out of jail he comes...right back here.. The legal age of consent here...believe it or not...is 16!!!!
I talked to her Psychiatrist and he said he will not do it. We live in a VERY small country town with no resources and I do not know what to do. She does not seem to learn by any of her mistakes and I am so afraid once this guy gets out she will go right to him... and he is NOT a good person for her to be with.
NVLD is not well known here... she was diagnosed with it at a Mental Health Facility when she was placed there for a week when she wrote a suicide letter but this doctor here says "well she is highly intelligent so she is capable of consent... she just makes bad decisions"!
I know she is highly intelligent but does he know anything about NVLD?
Am I looking at this all the wrong way as a overprotective mother?
My major question is: Is a person with Nonverbal Learning Disorder mentally capable of consensual sex with a man who is now 20 who she really does not know? Who can I talk to this locally about or even in the state of Kentucky?
There are no lawyers here...the police really have been no help...
I want my daughter to have a successful and fulfilling life!
Thank you for letting me rant and rave...

[jisp]

Ashlyn,
I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. I do not think you are being overprotective and I do think you have good reasons to be concerned about this man's release and also about your daughter's ability to make decisions. What sort of therapy has she been getting? How are her grades? What are her future plans?

Can you consult with a different psychiatrist? Have you contacted your state's department of mental health to see if they have a social worker that could possibly work with your daughter? Do you know if Marijuana or any other drugs are involved? How is your daughter with money? Are you parenting alone or with a partner? How is your daughter's relationship with other relatives?

What originally triggered the suicide note?

I am already going outside the scope of these boards, but I just thought I would throw out some questions to help you fill out the story. You might want to visit thebalancedmind.com (you can also check them out on FB). You do need to pay a small membership fee to post on the forums, but the parents are a lot more experienced with these types of issues and would be more likely to help.

[healthy11]

Ashlyn, I'd like to welcome you to Millermoms forum, and say how sorry I am that this has happened to your daughter. You are not being overprotective. Unfortunately, your story is NOT the first one I've heard about young girls with LDs being involved in "encounters" where they don't fully understand the situation, either because they don't have the mental capability, or they don't have enough life experience to realize the consequences of their actions. Many teens have a strong desire to act "grown up," but especially when kids have LDs, it seems like they "live in the moment" and don't think about longer-term problems. I would hope you've taken your daughter to an ob/gyn, to be sure she hasn't got any STDs or is pregnant.

I'm not a lawyer, but you might want to post your question on the site www.lawguru.com, where some attorneys do respond for free, to questions from the public. Given the age of consent in KY, and the unwillingness of your daughter's psychiatrist to write a letter saying she's incapable of giving consent, I'm not sure whether you, as the parent of a minor, could still seek legal action against the guy, like some kind of order of protection? www.topix.com/forum/city/owensboro-ky/TDB67RO2BSNRK2N30

[ashlyn]

Jisp... I will answer  the best I can with all your questions....
At first we thought she had just ADHD/OCD but then turned to Asperger when she got older, then when she was admitted they diagnosed her with NVLD (who was NOT her regular psychiatrist)... she get no therapy as there is NOTHING here to help her... small town...small minds when it comes to mental health which is sad. I am limited to money... and insurance coverage....
Grades... when she loves the subject... A's but if she does not like the teacher or students in her class down to even an F. Her ACT was high in reading and comprehension and science but math was low... she does not like math.
Plans for her future... Wildlife Biologist.
There are no other close Doctors... would have to drive long distances in country roads... about 2 hours away....
I have not contacted the State Department of Local Health... and I will to see if they can help... thank you for that tip....
Marijuana was not in the picture with him but actually with my neighbor across the street...the lady is 34 and gave my daughter marijuana and Valium which was found inher system when she was admitted to the facility.  This lady smoked with her at her house across the street while I was asleep in the middle of the night! That is ANOTHER situation I am having to deal with!
She is HORRIBLE with money... I have to keep it from her because she will spend it as soon as she gets it.  Tried a checking account for responsibility and she cleaned it out in a month... taking money about behind my back all the time.
I am a single parent... divorced from her father when she was 1 years old... we were married for 7 years.
Her father lives over 5 hours away near Chicago... he is no good... I call him the "Disneyland Parent" because he gives her everything and never helps me deal with any issues....  
I have a 81 year old father... she loves him but lies to his face and has stolen money and a few other things which breaks my heart. I cannot bother him with many issues because of his pacemaker and his health.  My other family (brother) lives also near Chicago...my mother passed of cancer when my daughter was 2.
The suicide note was in her words "a joke". She left it in the neighbor's mailbox (the lady who gave her the marijuana) to see what she would "do" since at the time was angry at the woman for telling me about other things my daughter has done (too much to type about). She still does not understand why it was wrong what she wrote. I believe it is because I am keeping her from her "love of her life".
My daughter lies constantly... even to her few friends... it depends on what the situation is.  I cannot believe one word that comes out of her mouth.
Thank you all so much for listening... I feel like such a bad mother because I wanted her to learn in life...not to be soooo overbearing and be on her day and night... and by this all of this has erupted. The most ironic thing is I got a degree in Social Work 5 years ago but could not pursue it due to the hours it takes and the locality of the jobs that were available entwined with finding someone willing to watch my daughter because she was a ball of energy when she was young.
Again thank you again and I will keep you updated on my progress. Crying has become a normal for me because it is the hardest thing when you want to help someone but feel every step forward is two steps back.
Thank You.....

[jisp]

Ashlyn,
Based on what you write it sounds as though there is more going on with your daughter than just NVLD, ADHD and OCD.... The chronic lying is a serious issue and you are right to be concerned. I am wondering if your daughter might not benefit from a residential placement where there are clinicians available throughout the day to observe her when she lies and to gain a better understanding of what sort of interventions she would benefit from. Getting such a placement from your school district can be exhausting and take time and energy but it can be done. The key is to show that the school is not able to meet your daughter's needs socially or academically (or both) and that in order to effectively access the curriculum (which includes social aspects of school) your daughter needs to be in a therapeutic environment.

Has your school created a transition plan for your daughter yet? If not I would convene the IEP team and insist that everyone work on a transition plan that includes the ways that your daughter is dysfunctional and a plan for addressing the dysfunction to the best of their ability before your daughter graduates.

I suspect that given how you describe her right now, her issues are probably too big for you alone to work with. Plus it is nearly impossible for a parent to be a child's therapist when the child is a teenager because the child's brain is programming them to ignore and rebel against everything the parent is saying.

Finally I help a lot of parents whose children have mental health issues. It is not unusual for parents to drive 2 hours to see a clinician. Sometimes they just need to go once or twice initially and then they can skype or do the rest over the phone. There are some clinicians that now will skype with patients who live in rural areas where they do not have access to specific types of doctors. You might want to call your state's top University and see if they have any recommendations for you.

[ashlyn]

jisp I will see if I can talk to her counselor at school who will be working closely with her this year. I will also talk to the facility that she was placed in for a week and see what intervention or steps can be done to get the ball rolling in order to make both of our lives much more manageable....Thank you so much for you information.... I only cringe of the thought of how all of this will affect her peers and the local community as here mole hills turn into mountains..... There is this one Dr that my daughter saw in Louisville a long time ago for her initial diagnosis of ADHD... he is hard to get into but possibly I can see if she can go there again for another more updated and thorough insight. Thank you again....

[beth]

I just wanted to say I am sorry you are going through this. The fact that your daughter is making poor choices does not in any way mean you haven't been a good parent. Don't blame yourself.

[empeg1]

ashlyn: I have a 26 year old daughter whose overall disability is different than for your dd. My daughter has Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder. However, she also struggled as a teen with many of the same issues as your girl. My dd also was involved in relationships with men that were destructive. One thing with teen girls who struggle in school or with peers, attention from boys (or men) is one way not only to get positive attention, it is also a way to fit in and to get self esteem. My dd also was hurt, at 14 years of age, when she left a sleepover with a 21 year old man and went to a party. He raped her in an attack with much violence. She didn't tell anyone for 1 1/2 years, not a living soul, until she finally told me. During that time, I never knew whether or not my dd was telling the truth at any one moment. She too struggled with anxiety and difficulties with social skills. No way that she was able to understand the danger that she was in.

Having gone through all of the above, I can tell you that it is not possible to monitor your dd all of the time. I am also a single parent. There is just so much of us.

I have a few questions to ask you. Do you have extended family who would take your dd? Preferably the above would include a home with a strong male figure, an uncle or cousin, away from where you live? If the above is the case, i would move your dd and then look to find a highly skilled therapist, one who is also skilled in working with teens who have difficulty with social thinking. I would also get an immediate order of protection. You might have to consult an attorney if the local police give you trouble.

Does your dd have an IEP at school? Is the school aware of the situation? I am asking because if residential treatment is a choice, the placement is very very expensive. One way to obtain funding through your school district as a special education placement. This is the route I took. My dd's eligibility for special education was changed from SLD to Emotional Disturbance. It was the issue of her safety that made the decision for the school district. My dd was hanging with major gang members, missing from school for hours, running away from home, hanging with drug dealers, drinking heavily and using drugs.... She also attempted suicide. My dd had no insight as to being in any danger. I was terrified. I had already decided that my dd's life was on the line and that I would sell my house if I had to to pay for her treatment. There was no way she would have gone to treatment voluntarily. I had her picked up at home and escorted.

The other way to get funding for residential treatment is through insurance. But, the above is NOT easy to get. I placed my dd in an emergency and then filed for due process. I won in mediation 60 days after placement, with retroactive funding. The above will take an attorney.

In the mean time, I strongly suggest that your dd be put on birth control to protect her from a pregnancy at 15 years of age. I know you may not want to hear the above message, but if this young man is released from jail you cannot watch your dd 24/7. A grandchild is not what you want right now.

Is your dd's diagnosis Aspergers or NVLD? Do you live anywhere near a big city? You may have to travel to find a skilled psychiatrist who will evaluate and see your dd. I am in the same position. In August I will travel 400 miles for my dd to get a neuropsychological evaluation by an expert in FASD. Otherwise, the local psychologists will just misdiagnose her again. Finally, if there is a psychiatrist in Louisville, I would contact his office and let the staff know that your daughter's safety is at stake and that an appointment is urgently needed.

Fnally, my heart goes out to you.

[SharonF]

ashlyn--

I just wanted to say I'm sorry for all the hurt you and your dd are going through. You've gotten good advice from others who have personal experience that is similar to yours.

The issue of Aspergers/NVLD is difficult. I know a little about that because I have a 21-year old daughter with NVLD, ADHD-inattentive type, OCD and other alphabet soup. I'm wondering if you might get more support from the medical and mental health communities if your dd had an Asperger's diagnosis.

NVLD has never been included in the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual, meaning different experts use different criteria to diagnose it and many don't recognize the existance of NVLD at all.

Now, Aspergers has been removed from the DSM, meaning there is no longer a clinical diagnosis of Aspergers. However, most experts do believe Asperger's exists, even if the new term is "High-Functioning Autism."

I've been doing some research in recent months. And I've concluded that too many females with Asperger's are overlooked because their traits are not like males with Asperger's.

Kind of like how most females with ADHD don't act like 5-year old boys with ADHD. In short, I think many girls who've been told they have NVLD actually have female Asperger's. They just don't meet the male-dominated criteria for Asperger's.

aspergersgirls.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/thirty-seven-10-myths-about-females-with-aspergers-syndrome/

The label shouldn't matter. The person's needs should matter. But in this tail-wags-the-dog world, your dd may not get the help she needs from police, the courts, health insurers or mental health care providers...unless she has a label that helps "explain" that she is not just a rebellious teenager but a confused human being who needs help.

Finally, PLEASE don't blame yourself. You are a loving mom who gets very little support or understanding from the world at large. You have our support and encouragement!

[ashlyn]

empeg1 and SharonF thank you for your support. I have called her counseling center and am waiting for a call back from my State Mental Health Center on other routs to go with this situation. She is visiting her father in another state for a few weeks which has been a great relief for my mental and physical health... but I still dread when she returns and the struggle begins.  Empeg1 there is no extended family.... he father's home is far from stable. He is good for short term but where he lives and who he lives by would make her life a mess even more than it is now.  I call him the "Disneyland Parent"..... he says he will be strict on her when she visits but he has turned the total opposite of what I have been trying to accomplish here...He has let her turn on her phone so now she can call the guy in jail. I told him he needs to get some "balls" (excuse the language) and quit having me be the bad parent all the time....that went in one ear and out the other. Our school here is EXTREMELY limited in dealing with special needs kids... they are basically ignorant but there is one lady I know who will be working with my daughter this year closely and I feel she is the most capable... I will be in touch with her at least twice a week during school.
My daughter has insurance through the state which is wonderful as it pays for nearly everything...
I want to put her on Birth Control but she is HIGHLY afraid of needles so to take blood requires 4 or more people to hold her down... that trauma alone feels to me like a form of punishment. I emphasize all the time to her about protection and the cost of a child....
The police said they will have to amend the charges from second degree rape (no force) to something else now...but I believe they are trying all they can to keep him in jail as long as they can and I have asked for a order of no contact to be given to him before he gets out as he has no home to send it to.
Thank you all again for you kind words, responses and advice. I hope to get phone calls soon as I believe they are getting tired of me calling them nearly every day!

[ashlyn]

Oh also she was first diagnosed with Asperger's less than a year ago and when she was in the treatment center for the one week  about a month ago they said it was NVLD and not Aspergers. The definition and characteristic's of NVLD seem so much more like my daughter then Asperger's..

[empeg1]

I would talk to your dd's physician and tell him that your dd is sexually active. There are injections for birth control, but if she cannot tolerate injections I would go the route of birth control pills (and it is not my experience that one needs repeat blood tests for that). If your pediatrician is not understanding, take your daughter to Planned Parenthood. They are very understanding and work well with teens. You will have to monitor your daughter talking birth control pills. But, you cannot supervise her 24/7 and a pregnant 15-year-old is not something you want.

[dwolen]

I, too, really feel for you and your situation. Little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems.
Depo-provera injections every three months for contraception is highly effective, about 98%. You would not have to have a struggle every morning when it comes to taking the birth control pill. Another option is Nor-plant, which is for 5 years, planted under the skin. My friend who is a nurse midwife in a family planning clinic, says that the IUD is the recommended method for most women, even very young women. Modern IUD's have a very low side effect and very low complication rate, and can stay in place up to 10 years.
I used to worry about IUD's and infections, but my cautious friend says that the infection rates are very low.

[SharonF]

I agree with those who recommend longer-term birth control. Even if it does mean the extreme difficulty of using a needle.

I definitely understand why your dd's diagnosis is NVLD, not Asperger's. But NVLD is not in the DSM. Therefore, NVLD doesn't really exist--at least in the minds of many in law enforcement and even health care. So a diagnosis of NVLD provides little help for your daughter.

I don't usually recommend shopping around for a doc who will give you the diagnosis you want. But your dd is in a precarious situation. I'm assuming the well-meaning employees of the treatment center are experts at what they do, but they may not be experts in the unique nuances of females on the Spectrum. You may need a psych who is highly knowledgeable about females on the Spectrum. Again--not that the diagnosis solves the problems. But it might provide a new perspective for those in law enforcement, the courts, social workers, education or anyone else who reviews your dd's case and writes her off as rebellious.

[bros]

Jul 2, 2013 7:48:32 GMT -5 SharonF said:

I agree with those who recommend longer-term birth control. Even if it does mean the extreme difficulty of using a needle.

I definitely understand why your dd's diagnosis is NVLD, not Asperger's. But NVLD is not in the DSM. Therefore, NVLD doesn't really exist--at least in the minds of many in law enforcement and even health care. So a diagnosis of NVLD provides little help for your daughter.

I don't usually recommend shopping around for a doc who will give you the diagnosis you want. But your dd is in a precarious situation. I'm assuming the well-meaning employees of the treatment center are experts at what they do, but they may not be experts in the unique nuances of females on the Spectrum. You may need a psych who is highly knowledgeable about females on the Spectrum. Again--not that the diagnosis solves the problems. But it might provide a new perspective for those in law enforcement, the courts, social workers, education or anyone else who reviews your dd's case and writes her off as rebellious.

There's nothing wrong with recommending that someone look for/go to a doctor who is a specialty in a rare area.

[pandora]

Ashlyn, what a sad and scary mess you're dealing with.

I've been taking a look on the internet at Kentucky's age of consent laws, which leave me sputtering. They seem to be written by men to protect males from young teenage girls like your dd. If you are not successful at getting the "no contact" order when LoverBoy gets out, maybe you could have your dd stay in Illinois, where the age of consent is 17 and there are no "Romeo & Juliet" exceptions (http://www.age-of-consent.info/states/Illinois). I realize a change of school and the IEP would make that very complicated, but it might protect your dd until LoverBoy gets the cash for a bus ticket to Chicago (where he can be arrested for messing with your dd).

I'm surprised to hear that your dd is able to phone LoverBoy in jail. I've never heard of inmates being able to receive calls. I've only heard of them having to call collect or get some kind of special prepaid calling card. I suggest you ask at the jail whether phone calls to or from your minor child are considered a right, or a privilege. If such calls are not a right, then could you get the jail to block him from calls to or from your minor daughter?

How do you know LoverBoy is actually from Florida? (Have the cops verified that?) After the arrest, did the cops check in Florida (or nationwide) to see if this man is on any sexual offender lists? Do you have/can you get any proof of the exchanges between your dd and LoverBoy? Was there anything that could contribute to a FEDERAL charge against him for crossing state lines to have sex with a minor?

Your ex turned your dd's phone service back on after you had turned it off to protect her. Can you get the phone service able to block calls to or from certain numbers? Or why not just cancel the service entirely? Of course, that wouldn't stop No-Balls dad from buying her a new phone and service, but I see no reason for you to pay for a phone that aids and abets your dd's self-destructive behavior. What does your ex think about dd's sexual relationship with a predator?

I think it will be tough to get any psychiatrist to look beyond your dd's high IQ and lack of psychotic behavior when it comes to a declaration of incompetence. You need a psychiatrist who is familiar with Autism & NLVD — and in the end, the diagnosis is less important than the conclusions about competency.

[ashlyn]

Pandora,
So much has gone on with her case but I will try to answer your questions.  I checked with the jail and yes they can have privileges on phone calls once a week to a certain number if it is pre arranged so my daughter can call him at a 1-800 number at a certain time and they can talk.  I actually talked to the commonwealth attorney about this so they can keep a monitor on his calls.
 I went on line and looked him up... he has been arrested once for petty theft (it was a more serious charged amended to that charge) and twice for trespassing.  Also I have his father's telephone number (which I will NEVER call but it is good to have) and all of his family members on facebook are from that general area.
 He admitted to having sex with my daughter NUMEROUS times directly to the police.... like he was bragging.
I will have to check with the commonwealth on if a federal charge can be made but I really doubt it since 16 is considered an adult in this state....
 On her phone it can be used for music without a phone card in it (it has a micro card she has her music on)... she paid for the month with her own money and I have chewed out her disneyland dad for being too easy... I have turned it off... she WAS NOT happy but I do not care... and she will not refill it when she comes back.
On her moving to Illinois I have no one for her to stay there and I refuse for her to stay with her dad which is a complete mess in itself and I feel would be a extremely unstable family unit for her to live at....just visiting stresses me but I have to abide by the court appointed visits.
 I have talked with her counselor but still not with her psychiatrist on any more programs in order to help her with her social skills.  I am going to focus not on changing her diagnosis as all I care about is helping her make better decisions in her life and understanding that there are dire consequences to bad decisions. I have also checked with the State Mental Health and it all comes to a full circle right back to the clinic she is at now. Now it is a matter of her state insurance covering it when I decide to get her into this one Mental Health Center in Louisville that specializes in pediatric diagnosis.
  The "loverboy" is probably going to get out on the 13th... unless his court appointed attny does not realize this... and hopefully he will stay in jail until the 5th of August when it will go to a jury... it was supposed to go to the jury on the 8th but thanks to the police they only got all the information last week and had no time to get all the stuff we needed (subpoena on her counselor...etc) and they feel all they will get is a charge of Sexual misconduct which is a misdemeanor...
   I am worried about my daughter for her senior year... if this guy is around her obsessive thoughts will overrun her schooling and she will not graduate. I will be taking her to the health department to get birth control if she likes it or not until she is 18. I feel this next year is going to be a test f my will and faith but I will do everything I can to guide her in the right path... if only she will accept it.