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Post by mamak on Jun 25, 2009 22:00:26 GMT -5
One of the things I discussed with IEE Dr. yesterday was B's flat demeanor. I think it is his medicine and went on to tell her the pros and cons about him on meds. I told her about what a great sence of humor he has without meds and he seems a bit more creative too. I said but he gets up every morning for school and takes his medicine because he knows it works for him. We never got back to exactly what flat is and my assumption was he is quiet and with less emotion when on his medication. I think it got worse when he went up to 25 MG from 20 MG of Adderall XR but I am not certain. When we did this we also had the choice of having a 5mg to get him through homework but declined that because I was afraid we would take it too late and have him panicking when he could not sleep. He is perfectly happy with what he is on right now.
So I am just wondering if this is really a side effect of this medication or something else? If anyone has had this happen and if a medicine change solved it. Is this as good as it gets? Dr. loved how stable his executive functions looked on medication in addition to the academic progress he has made but I wonder if I should take the summer to look into other possibilities that might be out there. Concerta is absolutely out of the question not good for him at all. I mentioned how nice it was to have my little clown back and she said oh no we don't want that. I sort of do...he was never a behavior problem at school his attention was just the problem which he actually found ways to look busy and hide.
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Post by jw on Jun 25, 2009 22:40:04 GMT -5
Hi! We have always felt that ds is a little "flat" emotionally when he is on his ADHD meds, and with the exception of Strattera, it hasn't mattered which med he was on. When he was on Strattera, he started out being very open and cheerful, but later progressed to being very emotional and crying all the time, so that didn't work!
Since ds really needs his meds to get his homework done, but would probably be OK in class without it, I can imagine a time (maybe high school or college), when he takes a booster after school or when he needs it, and doesn't take his meds every day.
Of course, I should point out that the other day dh and i shook our heads when ds went skipping through the house making whale sounds....we don't get a lot of that when he is on meds....you will have to ask me in a few weeks if I like him better without meds (since we are taking a summer break) or if the whale sounds are driving me crazzzzyyyyy.
jw
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Post by mamak on Jun 25, 2009 23:04:40 GMT -5
Hi jw Oh I know the noises well. B has been taking weekends off and now the summer. He makes lots of weird noises too. Some character from Star wars is his favorite. The other night he was on the couch laying on his back with his feet up in the air wiggling around like a worm. I don't really care. He has been building things in the garage and today he got away from the Xbox and taught the dog how to clime half way up a ladder....don't ask, something he saw in Key West a few years ago. Anyway he really needs to put on some weight so it is a must as far as I am concerned. Yes I also know that look I give my DH as B does what he does however I really like him and his humor much better. Not sure if it is the medication or the stress of school. What are your thoughts on that?
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Post by majorv on Jun 25, 2009 23:30:40 GMT -5
For us, a number of the stimulants our son was on seemed to level out his emotions, not just Adderall XR. We found that he didn't fly off the handle as much and his frustration level got better. I guess you could say it flattened his personality somewhat. However, when he was young, it was difficult living with him off meds because of his hyperactivity and his emotions so this outweighed giving him a break from meds. Then, too, I worked and I knew the daycare couldn't handle him every day off meds.
Now that he's older the hyperactivity has really diminished but he still goes through the house making these weird noises when he's off meds. He is still on somewhat of an emotional roller coaster, too. I also found out this past semester that he has to be on meds if he's going to make it through HS!
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Post by Mayleng on Jun 26, 2009 9:05:32 GMT -5
Mamak bear in mind that what you see as his creativity and "fun" side which you got used to may not necessary be the "norm" for other kids because our ADHD kids lack "control" of their impulsivity and emotions. So it isn't necessarily him being "flat" but more in control. We just got used to our kids being the way they are, but isn't that the reason why they need the meds in the first place. When things are going well on meds, we tend to forget what it was like before and our memories are somewhat different until you take them off meds and then reality comes back into focus.
My son was never hyperactivity, he was inattentive and he also does make funny noises off meds. He still does especially when he is playing video games. He has since stopped hanging upside down on the couch with his feet in the air wiggling since he is 13 yrs old now.
There are some meds that seem to make my son more "intense", adderall xr was one of them. Ritalin and Ritalin LA less so. Metadate CD has been great for him, he is still a little more quiet and in control and aware when he is on it than when he is off it. He is very chatty off meds, which sometimes may not be appropriate or in the wrong place or time to do so. This is because his impulse control is not undercontrol without meds. Forget about focussing on school work or anything he is not interested in. He is offf meds for the summer, this is the only med he has been able to take "vacations" from without having the initial side effects ie. headaches, lack of effectiveness when he goes back on them again when school starts.
You could try other meds while your ds is on vacation to see if it might work better, there is nothing wrong with doing that. I tried other meds so I know how effective or not effective they are for my ds. Give metadate cd a try if you haven't. I know my child does not do well on adderall xr, great on his attention but too many side effects for my taste. Concerta did nothing for him except give him side effects.
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Post by mamak on Jun 26, 2009 9:22:02 GMT -5
Thanks Mayleng,
My DS IS 13 an IS still doing the upside thing.
I guess the reality for a ADD type is they have to either accept the drawbacks of the flatness or as you stated intensity (very good way of describing) along with good part of the medication. When they don't have the need to be less hyper and in control then I imagine it has to do something which is make them more reserved and quiet.
If he is seeing it as a beneficial trade off or perhaps not noticing like we do then perhaps I should not rock the boat. At least I will be looking at kicking down 5 MG and using a booster as needed. I might make an appointment to see what dr has to say. Is metadate cd a stim?
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Post by Mayleng on Jun 26, 2009 10:20:50 GMT -5
Yes metadate cd is in the same family as ritalin, ritalin la, concerta, focalin, focalin xr, daytrana - methylphenidate (with some variations - some more refined like focalin etc), it is the way the medication is delivered that is different too. Does not mean that your son did not do well on concerta he would not do well on the other meds in the same family (some doctors will tell you that). NOT true. My son did not do well on Concerta, did ok on ritalin and ritalin la, does great of Metadate CD. We have not tried focalin or daytrana.
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Post by jw on Jun 26, 2009 13:32:27 GMT -5
Hi! The upside down thing made me laugh! DS used to do that too, but I haven't seen it yet this summer. Dh thinks it is really odd, but I remember doing the same thing as a kid, so it seemed perfectly fine to me!!
Mamak, I think some of the personality changes are from the meds and some are from the relief from being out of school. On DS's last day of school, I saw a HUGE difference in his personality and outlook within a few hours of school getting out. You could tell by looking at his face that a giant load had been lifted, and he was much more relaxed and open when talking to family....
jw
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Post by michellea on Jun 26, 2009 13:47:19 GMT -5
Hi Mamak, What you have heard from Mayleng and Jw is exactly what we experience with DS age 12. (he still likes to be upside down!). You may remember my thread a month or so ago - "to med or not to med". millermom.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Parenting&action=display&thread=8067 The question was an outcome of his behavior on and off meds. I will say that once we were doing a med dosage adjustment. When the meds were too high, we cut back the dosage a bit and the flatness was a bit less pronounced. |
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Post by deeyana on Jun 26, 2009 18:09:51 GMT -5
Ds was taking adderall XR for two months and had to stop because of all the side effects. He was Very flat and VERY serious all day long.The kid would not laugh even if you tickled him. But adderall XR worked really good on the focusing. We've since tried 5mg of focalin XR which did nothing for him. Then we bumped it to 10mg. He seems a little more focused but not as much as he was with 10 adderall XR? Focalin XR does not make him as serious/flat as the adderall XR. And I noticed it seems to ware off faster than the Adderall XR.
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Post by Mayleng on Jun 26, 2009 21:59:36 GMT -5
deeyana, focalin xr is only supposed to last 8 hours (I think) but Adderall Xr and Concerta are supposed to last 10 to 12 hours.
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Post by deeyana on Jun 27, 2009 11:18:34 GMT -5
That explains a lot!
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Post by mamak on Jun 27, 2009 22:31:12 GMT -5
so Adderal er will allow him to do homework and be a zombie and folcain will allow the school to reap the benefits and cause havoc for homework so the school looks at me like I am a total idiot because they have no problem with focusing at school? (2 hours less of focus)
Some material in my sons record check showed teacher stating they have no problem with him as mom is describing at home like I am some kind of liar or idiot. 22goingmad*
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Post by healthy11 on Jun 27, 2009 22:53:18 GMT -5
I'm a little late in commenting, but the description of "being flat" on Adderall seems relative. My son definitely doesn't seem as spontaneous and giddy when he's on medication, but that can also be seen as less impulsive and more detailed and focused, and "taking his work more seriously," which are helpful when he's got to deal with classes. He doesn't like taking meds on weekends because he doesn't think he's "as much fun to be with," but he also seems oblivious to the fact that other people may tire of him trying to be "the life of the party" and talking constantly. If he's not talking, he's got to have music playing. I have to constantly repeat myself/nag to get him to do anything useful when he's NOT on medication, and if he does start a task, he often only does them "halfway" before being distracted by something else.... While he seldom takes his Adderall over the summer, (he'll use them when he has tests or papers to write in summer school) I definitely appreciate the few hours of "peace and quiet" when he does. I don't see them as flat, but rather as calm....
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Post by mamak on Jun 27, 2009 23:15:27 GMT -5
Healthy - I can definitely understand the benefits of Adderall ER treating hyper/impulsive type vs inattentive. B is inattentive most of the time off meds. He does sometimes get hyper but I notice it is usually when he is tired and doesn't know what to do with himself. Thats when you send him to bed and it sorts itself out.
OH I had to deal with your description of half done projects the last 2 days as I asked his help in cleaning up a rental unit I need to get on the market. Everything I asked him to do he did half way and completely forgot to finish. I just got sick of nagging and sent him home with his dad so I could finish what he did not. When this happens we parents understand but it would also be easy to see a teacher or boss lacking in actual knowledge or will not buy into the ADHD thing and call him lazy. I find that unless I hyper focus on something I am just as bad.
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Post by Mayleng on Jun 28, 2009 10:30:22 GMT -5
mamak, it is Adderall XR not ER.
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Post by majorv on Jun 28, 2009 12:46:32 GMT -5
so Adderal er will allow him to do homework and be a zombie and folcain will allow the school to reap the benefits and cause havoc for homework so the school looks at me like I am a total idiot because they have no problem with focusing at school? (2 hours less of focus)
Some material in my sons record check showed teacher stating they have no problem with him as mom is describing at home like I am some kind of liar or idiot.  mamak, he shouldn't be a zombie on Adderall. If you, and he, don't like how it affects him even after adjusting the dosage, then you might consider Focalin XR. When we tried it our doc also gave us an RX for regular Focalin so he could take it if he needed to focus after school. |
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