IEP Interview questions - Grad school assignment

[specialeducator]

I am in Graduate School in a state university getting my endorsement to teacher special education in Michigan.

As part of the requirement for my current summer class I need a parent, general ed teacher, special ed teacher, and an administator to answer these 7 questions about their experience with the IEP process. I need to write up a paper on the results by this Sunday June 28, 2009.

I'm getting my endorsement to teach special ed in Michigan. Can anyone help? If you would rather e-mail me your answers rather than post here please let me know.

INTERVIEW QUESTIONS FOR IEP TEAM MEMBERS


1. How many IEP’s have you attended? Describe the type of IEP’s and the experience. (Initial, 3 year evaluation, annual, manifestation determination…etc)

2. Explain your role as an IEP team member?

3. Who was involved in the IEP meeting(s) you have attended?

4. Was the meeting conducted in a professional manner and were the ideas of all individuals respected?

5. Explain how your input was or was not considered during the IEP meeting(s)?

6. Do you understand the IEP process? If not, would you appreciate learning more about the process?

7. What could be done to improve your experience, or the experience of others, to help with the IEP process?

[SharonF]

Hi specialeducator!

Congratulations on taking the road less traveled. Teaching kids with learning differences--and battling the bureaucracy that surrounds education--is certainly a challenging career choice. I wish you the best.

I'm not sure that you really want to read this, but here goes.

1) I estimate I have attended 40 to 50 IEP meetings. I have two children, and both received IEPs. The evaluation process for each child began in 6th grade. Both kids were exited at the end of 12th grade. For my younger child, that Exit Meeting was just a few weeks ago.

Gosh, how do I describe the experience? The first few years of fighting for IEPs was pure hell. My blood pressure is going up just recalling those horrible meetings.

My son had been an excellent student throughout elementary school, but started failing classes in 6th grade. The school claimed he was "just lazy" and refused to test him for services. Then they claimed he was overly anxious because I was an overinvolved mother with unrealistic expectations.

I had him tested privately. His WISC-III was 81 (identical VIQ and PIQ scores, and Freedom From Distractibility of 74.) His WJs were in the 110 to 120 range. The school told me that he did not qualify for an IEP because he did not have Significant Discrepancy, that the school was educating him far beyond his intellectual ability, and that I should be happy he was doing so well if his IQ was so low.

The private professional who evaluated him understood my son and his learning style SO WELL. While his writing score was very weak on mechanics, she said his TOWL was one of the most amazing pieces of writing she had ever read by a 12-year old in her 25-years of working with LD kids. She described it as having a "sweet sadness" and described him as a profoundly deep thinker.

She estimated his actual intelligence in the 125 to 130 range, but said the WISC didn't capture his thinking style well.

She said his Speech in Noise subtest indicated severe Auditory Processing Disorder. I took him to an Audiologist who specializes in CAPD and his scores were in the "severely disordered" range.

The private testing specialist said that she did not believe that auditory processing was at the heart of his difficulties, but rather a reflection of a comprehensive, global language processing difficulty.

My husband was told as a child that he is "dyslexic." I made the mistake of asking the middle school staff if my son might be dyslexic. They essentially told me there is no such thing as dyslexia.

The school said Auditory Processing was not an IEP category and they did not have to acknowledge his CAPD diagnosis. The school said Language Processing Disorder was not even a diagnosis and they ignored it. Same with dyslexia.

Meanwhile, my 12-year old started seriously talking about not wanting to live anymore. After one very scary night of suicidal talk, I started taking him to private counseling.

We finally got a lousy excuse for an IEP as Speech-Language Impaired, but it didn't really get at the heart of my son's difficulties.

My son is a multi-sensory learner who struggles to glean deeper meaning from language, and struggles to put his complex thoughts into words. He usually knows the material but bombs tests. Even in college, he is fabulous in the lab but can't recall, analyze and synthesize language quickly enough when taking notes or taking a test.

As all of this was going on with my son, I realized my daughter was having some of the same Speech in Noise and Auditory processing difficulties. She is a year younger than our son.

LONG story short, my daughter was diagnosed privately in 6th grade with severe Auditory Processing Disorder, ADHD-inattentive, and Nonverbal Learning Disaiblity affecting her abstract reasoning, reading comprehension, fine motor, visual-spatial and math reasoning.

Her first IEP was also for SLI. What a joke. The SLP was not the answer to her difficulties. Meds helped her ADHD-in, but the middle school refused OHI.

2) At IEP meetings over the years, I tried to learn the law and the rules. I tried to understand the eligibility criteria. I learned so much from parents and professionals on the Schwablearning.org website. I tried to educate the educators about CAPD, NLD, and language processing impairment. Because none of those labels are IEP categories, they didn't care when CAPD is, what NLD is, or what language processing impairment is. They didn't understand how a kid could have such language strengths AND language weaknesses. I hired an advocate who finally convinced the school to give my kids SLI IEPs, but that wasn't enough.

I must add that my kids were in a high-performing charter school during 6th through 8th grades. For 9th grade, they had to return to the huge public school district. That was the best thing that ever happened. The HUGE, bureaucratic school district was much more caring and concerned than the snooty charter. The big LEA wasn't perfect, as I'll describe below. The big LEA didn't always have the capability or flexibility to really meet my kids' needs, but at leat they CARED about my kids. That was an important difference.

The big LEA quickly changed my son's IEP to SLD in reading comp and written expression, using privately-obtained UNIT and WJ results. They didn't demand that he have significant discrepancy to get an IEP. They didn't ask for his UNIT protocols or claim that the UNIT was an invalid IQ test. So different than the charter middle school!

The big LEA instantly acted on my request to change my dd's IEP to OHI for ADHD. More importantly, they really did try to meet both my kids' needs in high school.

3) In charter/middle school, the SpEd Director was a ferocious gatekeeper. The School Psych was only interested in significant discrepancy and didn't care about any other scatter or inconsistencies in my kids' scores. Only one teacher at the middle school advocated for my kids: the remedial reading teacher. The school starting putting that teacher's name on the Invitations to Conference, but didn't ever tell her when my kids' IEP meetings were. So I began inviting her. Then the school started blocking her requests for a sub to take her class during my kids' IEP meetings. The reg-ed and sped teachers at the middle school were puppets of the administration--trying to reduce the number of SpEd kids.

In high school (different LEA), we had a constantly changing cast of characters at each meeting. Lots of turnover, other than my son's Case Manager. But at the high school level, the IEP meetings were conducted professionally and respectfully.

One concern at the high school level was no from from the SpEd Dept. knew anything about college-prep math expectations. The SpEd teachers and SpEd director at the high school level all said they were good in English and History, but lousy in math, chemistry and physics. No one from the Sped dept. could write appropriate math goals for my dd's IEP. Other than extended time, the SpEd dept. didn't know how to determine appropriate accoms. If SpEd teachers don't understand the subject, they cannot write goals for it! That is a serious shortfall.

4) I think I answered that above in #3.

5) I am going to rephrase this a bit. Rather than explain my input, I'll explain the challenges I faced as a parent of two college-bound kids with learning differences.

My first battle (yes, battle) was eligibility. My kids didn't fit the cookie-cutter world of SpEd eligibility. I was perceived as a pushy, wacko who wouldn't accept that her kids were "slow and lazy" (the middle school's words--repeatedly.) My kids are NOT slow. My son's UNIT IQ score was a 125. My dd's VCI is a 124 but her PRI is a 90.

My second battle was to avoid my kids being shoved into dumbed down classes. This was a huge problem in high school, where "placement" is the driving force of SpEd.

My son was in a SpEd "Standard Course of Study" English class in 9th grade. Five students, all male. He was reading "The Illiad" and needed help with higher-order literary analysis. Another kid in that class was having trouble reading "Clifford the Big Red Dog." The teacher could not meet that wide range of needs. They did bring in the SpEd director to help my son with some inferencing, but often his needs were ignored because he was getting As. That's because the expectations had been dumbed down.

Inclusion classes were no better. They were the dumping grounds for the worst-behaved kids that no one wanted to teach. That was true in every subject, for both kids. And my kids attended three different public high schools (all in the same LEA.) One of the classes my dd was most successful in was Honors English, a far cry from any inclusion class.

My third battle was similar to the second: getting the high school to understand IDEA-04's requirement of Specially Designed Instruction. My dd was failing Algebra II in 11th grade. She was working her tail off and the teacher was doing what she could. I asked the IEP team for SDI. The SpEd director told me she had never heard of Specially Designed Instruction and made me talk to the principal. The principal told me that kids either learn the way it's taught or they shouldn't take the class. She threatened to remove my dd from the class. I told her it was April, it was too late to change to an easier course, my dd needed that class to go to college, and she needed SDI. The principal refused.

dd ended up passing Algebra II with a D, thanks to her incredibly hard work every night and her teacher giving her credit for mastery as shown on the Plato math education software program. Placement is not the same as Individualized!

6) I do understand the IEP process. What I don't understand is why some schools make IEPs so much harder than they should be. Yes, it's a huge investment of time and resources to individualize a child's instruction. But is the alternative really better? Kids who fall behind, disrupt class or despise themselves---is that really better? For whom?

7) Schools who treat informed parents as adversaries have already lost credibility and valuable insight. Parents are not adversaries. We love our kids. Face it: we're scared to death. To educators, it's just another struggling kid who will move on in 180-days. To us, it's the child we will love for life. We have loved and nurtured and cherished for years. We have so many hopes for our kids. We don't want our kids reduced to a jumble of meaningless labels or a spreadsheet of eval scores. We see the hurt and frustration in our kids' eyes. We feel the darts from judgmental parents who don't understand what it's like to work so very hard in school and still fall short.

I knew nothing about learning differences when I started. But I lived on message boards like this one. I read everything I could by Mel Levine, Sally Shaywitz, Ned Hollowell, Peter Wright and others. I have no training in education or SpEd. I just asked a lot of questions and learned the hard way. And if you do anything long enough, it finally starts to sink in.

Five years ago, I began serving on the Board of Directors of our State's PTI/PIRC agency to help give back to parents. And I keep coming back to message boards to help other parents.

Our advocate called me last week, saying a group is trying to start a private school in our city for kids on the Autism Spectrum. She asked if I would be a resource for that new school, especially for NLD kids. I am honored, if it will help even ONE kid.

BTW--That reading teacher who was essentially banned from my kids' IEP meetings? Both of my kids invited her to their high school graduation parties. My son invited his high school case manager, too. And both came to their parties. I think that speaks volumes. My kids knew who cared about them and who didn't. And my kids are still grateful to those teachers all these years later.

That beloved reading teacher just got her pink slip. At dd's graduation party last Sunday, the teacher jokingly (maybe seriously) said she would like to go into a SpEd advocacy business with me.

So how does the story end? ds is struggling a bit in college, but I'm praying he'll find his way. dd starts college in the fall and I think she will do very well.

This is far more than you wanted or expected. As you can tell, it's a hot button issue for me, even after all of these years. Thanks for asking. Thanks for caring. Best wishes to you on this paper and in your career!

[cobyseven]

I too will answer your questions in an attempt to help you with your grad studies. Once you get in the classroom, please remember to respect the parents opinion and express your views openly.


1. How many IEP’s have you attended? Describe the type of IEP’s and the experience. (Initial, 3 year evaluation, annual, manifestation determination…etc)

I would say I have attended around 18 IEP meetings for my daughter who was identified as LD in kindergarten. That includes regularly scheduled yearly meetings, initial and triennial evaluations, state-mediated IEPs, and special meetings because of my disagreement with the team decisions. I had three years off of the process as my daughter attended private school for children with LDs from 2nd to 5th grade.

2. Explain your role as an IEP team member?
This is a slanted question. Do you mean the role I am suppose to play or the role that the IEP team relegates? I am to play an important role as I understand my daughter and her style better than any teacher. However, the school is unwilling to offer much in the way of services, so it has been two years now that I have not agreed with the IEP team decisions. However, I am empowered to understand the intent of IDEA and I understand the laws, so I feel as though I am the most important member of the team.

3. Who was involved in the IEP meeting(s) you have attended? This varies year to year and varies with the age that my daughter was at the time of the meeting. Generally, a regular education teacher is there; in some cases all of them were there. This includes the speech pathologist, the Intervention Services coordinator, the Director of Intervention Services, the principal (in some cases), and in one instance, a state-sponsored facilitator.

4. Was the meeting conducted in a professional manner and were the ideas of all individuals respected?

The meetings have always been collegial, but my opinions and requests are seldom honored as it costs money to provide those services and most district subscribe to one-size-fits-all cash flow.

5. Explain how your input was or was not considered during the IEP meeting(s)? I have requested research-based methodology and have been denied on five occasions.

6. Do you understand the IEP process? If not, would you appreciate learning more about the process?

I understand how the process is to work, both in theory and in practice. The theory is much better than the practice. I use outside resources such as this board for self-education and communication, as well as local support groups.

7. What could be done to improve your experience, or the experience of others, to help with the IEP process?

I see some of the meeting as a waste of time. Team members should be permitted to submit their input in writing prior to the meeting and decisions should then be left to the parent and the decision-makers. School teams need to be more open, more forthcoming, and be prepared to substantiate their claims with nationally-normed testing that is consistent from year-to-year. However, this rarely happens.


Be kinder than necessary to your future parent team members!

[momfromma]

1/ I attended to too many IEP meetings, around 15 to 20. My son got his eligibility meeting in 3rd grade. He is now in 9th grade after having repeated his 3rd grade, so it has been 7 years, and we have had at least 2 meetings a year except this year, and sometimes 3 or 4 when the school district and us were in conflict.

The experience was more or less good, depending of where in the school cycle my son was and of the various individuals in charge of the process. Contrarily to many people here, my son was immediately qualified and ordered a number of services (SLP/OT/PT/reading/writing/maths/social skills). However, we had to fight a number of fights concerning placement and how the services were delivered.

When my son got his first evaluation, he was in a private bilingual school with very high expectations for their students and very little leeway for alternative teaching styles. It was a terrible environment for our son and nobody disagreed with this. However, the school districts have been totally unable to find an appropriate environment for him. The evaluation was giving a very low IQ scores with WJ-III scores that were in the average range except for reading comprehension and writing paragraphs. However, the school district could not figure out these scores, calling them splintered skills, and insisted to place our son in a self-contained classroom, on the principle that they could not deliver that many services in the mainstream. Not knowing enough at this point and finding an total unwillingness from the school district, we accepted.

Even if we visited several classrooms to find the one which looked somewhat academic, it was the biggest error we made, as most of these students were at a lower level than my son not only in his strengths, but in his weaknesses. With help from the teacher, we got him back in the mainstream at the beginning of middle school.

After that, our experience had highs and lows, depending on whether the team chairperson was willing to listen to us and try to understand or whether she had decided that the numbers she got from the evaluation was the only thing that mattered.

2/ At the IEP meetings, I tried to understand the concerns of the educational team, but also to educate them concerning my son's medical conditions and disability, so that they can understand better what would work or not. Because my two sons have a very rare medical condition and that we have had to deal with many similar problems (though not as acute) with his older brother, we have a pretty good grasp of what works or not. For example, our son has a language disability, in particular when it comes to inferences and figurative language. However, he is also somebody who thinks verbally and needs to hear the information. Taking him out of the main class during lectures is an error (which we knew because our older son was thriving in lectures). However, the school psychologist insisted that he would be better off if he did not attend to lectures. We had to fight this for 3 years.

3/ In our school, the team chairperson is the spedteacher in charge. Typically, there is one mainstream teacher, the specialists he is involved with (speech therapist only at this point), and us. Sometimes, there is a representative of the LEA as well. I have to say that the less people there, the better we feel, as sometimes we have been subject to intimidation.

4/ The way the meetings were held were generally dependent of the chair person. Some meetings were very cordial, with the chair trying to find the best solution for our kid, and to understand our point of view. Some, however, were very sour, and I started crying more than once with a couple of these people. Typically, the problem arises when the professionals refuse to recognize that we know our kids better than they do, and sometimes our meetings became very negative. In 6th grade, we were told we were cruel to our son not to consider the placement they were offering (which was very inappropriate and that ds did not want to hear about). In 7th grade, the psychologist told us that our son's sensory problems (documented in the IEP) were not the reason he was leaving a very noisy cafeteria as soon as possible to go to the nurse.

5/ We generally prevailed when it came to placement, largely because we were not asking any option that was costly. We came however very close not to succeed in 6th grade, and probably would not have prevailed if they had had space in the section that the school had originally decided. Until the last day of school, the team refused to accept our decision and tried to change our mind during the meeting, invited people who were not in the invitation list. That was the worst IEP meeting we had, and it is probably because a person crossed the line that we prevailed. My guess is that the LEA person thought it was better to let it go (with a note in the IEP that the team was disagreeing with placement) rather than going to DP.

A place where we had real problems being listened to is when decided what an intervention will consist of. It is extremely difficult to get the school to tell us what method will be used, and we have found them very reluctant when it comes to even consider accomodations that we know work.

6) I understand the IEP process. It is however very difficult to understand how some decisions are made.

7) Being listened to as an equal to the teachers and the speech therapist and psychologist. Also, a better knowledge of special education laws and methods, both for school personal and for parents, would be helpful. It is clear that, in our case, we lost 4 years in inappropriate remediations because we did not know our rights and thought that the school was working in our kid's interest. At this point, our philosopy is that even when the school has our kid's best interest at heart, they are dealing with 1000 kids and us with one, so we have to be sure we understand fully what they are proposing before agreeing or disagreeing, and they are not always willing to make clear what they want to do.

[aterry]

1. How many IEP’s have you attended? Describe the type of IEP’s and the experience. (Initial, 3 year evaluation, annual, manifestation determination…etc)

I attended about 20 for my son. And so far about 6 for my daughter. I've attended initial placement meetings; annual reviews; triennials; contested placements. So far no Due Processes, but that could happen soon. With one exception the meetings at public schools have always been horrible. (Once my son began to attend a private special ed school the meetings were wonderful with experienced teachers who really knew what they were doing and cared about my son.) The so-called professionals almost always treat the parents with disrespect. Meanwhile there are often huge gaps in the knowledge of the professionals. In one meeting the school's special ed director had never heard of a Connors scale. At my last meeting none of the team had ever heard of PWN. They didn't know the latest IDEA stance on discrepancies. They know very little about best practices. Their goal is to deny as much as possible to keep costs down.

2. Explain your role as an IEP team member?

The parent role should be EQUAL. And if consensus cannot be reached, with the parent in agreement, then meetings should continue with the school exploring options, and working with the parent until services that are helpful can be reached. In David Souter's dissent in Forest Grove he said that he worried that parents' wouldn't try to work with schools to find workable services. He's evidently never been to a CSE meeting. It's just the opposite. Parents work and work and work and the schools and districts sit like giant stone impediments to the child's progress.

3. Who was involved in the IEP meeting(s) you have attended?
Usually there is a special ed teacher; a general ed teacher; a CSE member. At DD's school a special ed coordinator attends and totally dominates the meeting even though she has no special credentials or experience. In 4 meetings the school has brought their attorney. In 3 meetings a district supervisory psych attended and tried to get the school to agree to parent concerns but they refused. (The school is a charter.)

4. Was the meeting conducted in a professional manner and were the ideas of all individuals respected?
The meetings are not conducted in a respectful or lawful manner. The district/school has always engaged in predetermination. The school supresses teacher reports; mis-reports grades; misleads about who will be in attendance. When I ask the teachers questions the spec ed director and/or attorney tell the teachers not to answer. Everyone is treated with respect except the parents.

5. Explain how your input was or was not considered during the IEP meeting(s)? Everything that the parent says is treated as irrelevant. They act as if you've never met the child. Even when you have testing and scores and sometimes their own data to back up what you're saying. They truly feel that parents should not even be there--unless the parent completely agrees with them.

6. Do you understand the IEP process? If not, would you appreciate learning more about the process?
I understand the process very well--from coming to this board, and other sites and from reading books and articles. I understand the process a lot better than the school personnel and that angers them. The first time I used the term "predetermination" they got truly upset.

7. What could be done to improve your experience, or the experience of others, to help with the IEP process?

The school/district should be required to provide all materials that will be referenced to the parent at least 5 days in advance. If they do not and they reference the materials they should be sanctioned. And required to provide compensatory services to the family. The same is true of participants. If parents aren't notified in advance the persons should not attend and if they do the school/district should be sanctioned. The parent should have complete veto power of the IEP. It should be incumbent on the school to find a way to meet the parent half-way. If the school is bringing an attorney the parent should be provided legal representation at the district's expense. We as tax payers are paying for the school's attorney so tax money should provide legal representation for parents. There should be mandatory training to teach school/district personnel how to deal with parents in a respectful, cooperative manner. I also think that university training of teachers in the area of special ed is woefully lacking. Most parents who have spent 2 months doing research know more than most teachers. And the school should put the child's needs above the school's need--this almost never happens. Also public ed teachers should be REQUIRED to do a year-long training at a private special ed school. As I said above almost all the meetings at public schools were horrible. The meetings at my son's private special ed school were wonderful. Plus his education was 100 times better than what was available at the public schools--kinder, too.

[SharonF]

specialeducator--

I've gone way over my limit, but I want to add another point to #7.

I'm very concerned that the IEP process shortchanges parents who also have learning difficulties.

Genetics appear to be a factor in many types of LDs and ADHD. When a child starts doing badly in school, at least one parent often relives bad memories of struggles in school--shame, confusion, frustration, etc.

The IEP process is very language-intensive. It requires an ability to read information from many sources, synthesize complex information, organize an incredible amount of paperwork and facts, speak articulately at IEP meetings, and know how to advocate using facts rather than emotion.

Many parents with reading disabilities or ADHD/executive function difficulties are intimidated by that.

In short, I believe the deck is stacked against parents who have many of the same learning problems as their kids. Those parents are less likely to read Peter Wright's legal briefs or Sally Shaywitz's medical research papers. They are more likely to just accept whatever the school psych or SpEd director recommends. Even if it's not appropriate for their child.

I was a straight A student and valedictorian of my high school class, and I found the IEP eligibility process overwhelming. Advocating for specific services as allowed or required by law was also like arguing with a brick wall. My husband, a bright guy with reading comprehension issues came to the IEP meetings but detached himself from the process. It brought back too many painful memories of teachers saying to his mother, "He just needs to try harder."

[aworriedmom]

My experiences have ben so similar to that of many other respondents, especially that of Sharon F. So similar, I got teary eyed. I could write a book on your questions, but given your purpose and timeline, will focus on what has been different about my experiences that might be of value to you for your project, and in the big picture, might help provide a perspective to you and your professors/classmates/future students/future supervisors--i.e. the principals you will work for. Thanks very much in advance for your work and passion to help LD kids.


1. How many IEP’s have you attended? Describe the type of IEP’s and the experience. (Initial, 3 year evaluation, annual, manifestation determination…etc)

I have attended approx. 15 IEP meetings for my now 17 year old son and now almost 15 year old daughter. I am a single parent, work full time, and both kids are minority--adopted from Central America. I brought them here after a very difficult internaitonal adoption process in hopes to give them a better life. Never, ever did I envision the sped battles we have endured for both kids. DS was the star student in elementary school--the kid assigned to help other struggling kids. In middle school, he started to struggle with disorganization and output that was never fast enough to meet deadlines for homework. Now the kid that was always placed in the top sections with the brightest kids was accused of being lazy and not caring. We often were up completing projects or assignments until 4 or 5 am, with schol the next day. He oftne went to school in grade 7 on no sleep simply because he had so much work to do and was so meticulous in completion. He is an incredible artists and when he had the chance to do projects with creativity and artistry, had phenomenal grades. Writen papers and reports were torture. I started asking for a sped eval in grade 6 (in writing to principasl, guidance, sped heads and superintendants). It was never done--finally brief parts were done in grade 9 after three years of Ds and summer tutoring to pass. In grade 8, the phys ed teacher left a soccer game, and DS was the goalie. A kid thought it would be cute to slam the ball--not kick it---at close range at DS. His middle finger of his dependent hand--the one he uses for writing---was crushed. He spent the next 6 months in casts and in OT paid for by me. The finger is permanently deformed, tendons are caught in bone chips, and the rest of the hand has muscle weakness that will never go away. To this day, he can write legibly, but slowly. However, the District has never recognized this disability (now dysgraphia), never allowed him to use a laptop or tape recorder that I ofered to provide, never accommodated him in any way---no class notes, rare study guides. Just relegated the kid to sit and listen in an increasing placement in lower level classes with peers that were on drugs, mentally challenged, didn't care. DS has a VCI of around 115, PIQ in the high 120s, but Processing speed of around 80, and WISC subtest scores indicative possible of inattentive ADHD but complicated by inability to do pen and pencil tasks. Kind of like a sports car stuck in heavy traffic. Possible sluggish cognitive tempo, but minimal response to all ADHD meds. FInally, after years of struggle and no sped services at all, he got so depressed and anxious that his doctors put him on Home Instruction. District balked at hiring teachers for months, until i sent in formal complaints to state. This year, he is unilateraly placed in a rigorous Distance learning school.

For DD, she had trouble learning to read. I asked for sped eval in writing since kindergarten. no action at all. Then I had it done privately in grade 3. Miraculously, District accepted private evals which showed pretty severe auditory processing defecits, then later CAPD. CAPD and aud processing are better discussed above than I could do. SHe did well until grade 8, especially grade 9 has been a nightmare. Minimal IEP implementation, same game as with DS--lazy, dumb kid--what do I expect of a minority kid from third world country? They never said this but sure intimated it. Currently, we have a state complaint filed and an OCR complaint being investigated. Details of why I filed these below.

2. Explain your role as an IEP team member?

I am there because District knows law requires it. They give me no credibility at all, nor do they give an credibility to our loads of thorough private evals, done by very well known experts and highly regarded orthopedic surgeons, OTs, PTs, psychiatrists and psychologists with DS. Our CAPD expert has written the books and papers in audiology.

I have taken the Wrightlaw course, read many books by Levine, Shaywitz, you name it. I have supplied many references on the kids' disabilities to the IEP teams and teachers. I tried for years to be friendly and see things their way. I must be viewed as the most hated parent in the area now because of the OCR complaint, state complaints and FERPA pending complaint. I have written to BOE several times through the years--they never reply.

Our IEP team members are just not educated on IDEA. Add that to their arrogance and I essentially have no role. They brag about their meetings before the IEP meetings, just to let me know everything is predetermined.

Oh---I forgot to note that DS's just about entire sped file was lost twice during 10th grade! I had an advocate then, who kept giving them new copies of all of the evals, but they just would lose the evals again. SInce the District did only a TOWLE (at my request) and social eval---no speech, no OT for 3 years, no educational or psych evals--this meant the IEP team depended on the privAte evals which were lost twice. If they had no eva
was involved in the IEP meeting(s) you have attended?

4. Was the meeting conducted in a professional manner and were the ideas of all individuals respected?

5. Explain how your input was or was not considered during the IEP meeting(s)?

6. Do you understand the IEP process? If not, would you appreciate learning more about the process?

7. What could be done to improve your experience, or the experience of others, to help with the IEP process?

[dhfl143]

Would you be willing to post the responses from the General Ed Teacher, Special Ed Teacher, and the Administrator here? I'd love to hear their responses and understand their perspective.

[aworriedmom]

Sorry, I hit send by mistake. Continued:

3. Who was involved in the IEP meeting(s) you have attended?
District does know who IEP attendes should be: Case manager, general ed teachers for just a couple of minutes, one sped teacher even if they never met my kids, often other people who never met my kid, probably to fill room and intimidate me since I go alone or with an advocate, when I had one. The Vice Principal (associate Section 504 officer) has come, sped head has come, sped supervisor has come. None of sped administration have ever met my kids, and often the other experts they fill room with have never met my kids or done any evals. That’s why I am amazed that they speak with such authority about what my kids need. With DS, when they kept losing the evals and the room was filled with people who never met him, never did a classroom eval, never read the evals before they were lost I finally asked how they could speak with such authority and what expertise were they offering to the IEP team when they only knew what the Case manager said about my DS? The school social worker was at that meeting, and he got red in the face and looked at the floor and said nothing. I have already had teacher come to IEP meetings and say something in support of my kid, and they get shot down by the sped head. Then the teacher said “but that isn’t what we decided I would say when we all met yesterday?” (of course I wasn’t invited to that meeting). Another time, I received an email from DS’s Guidance Counselor who said she was sorry she couldn’t make yesterday’s IEP meeting and how did it go? I replied that I wasn’t invited to any IEP meeting the previous day. Next time I emailed her about a curse selection she replied that she couldn’t do anything for DS anymore without approval of sped head, even work on his schedule for fall. She closed email with “I know you understand.”

4. Was the meeting conducted in a professional manner and were the ideas of all individuals respected?
See above comments. When the sped head showed up, he would listen to my advocate and I discuss the private evals and what we seeking in the IEP, and then in a grandious way wave the draft IEP at all attendees and say “this is the document we are going with.” Now with DD, when the IEP team decides something that I obviously disagree with, I speak up sweetly and say like COlumbo, “gee, I’m confused. I thought I was a member of the IEP team, too.”
I posted a couple of months ago about a very sad and unprofessional IEP meeting for DD. The Italian I teacher (general ed) showed up and just took over the meeting to demand that DD be removed from her class just like all sped kids in the past. She was so proud of herself that she has always been successful in getting other sped kids removed from her class and put in Resource study hall. She was out of her chair in the face of the school psych and I, waving her arms about how sped kids have no capacity to learn a language, and she has no time to implement IEPs, she has to many classes to teach, this is a disgrace to her as a teacher to teach these kids. Mind you, my kids are anything but cognitively impaired, but this teacher thinks IEPS are for somebody else to implement an nobody is going to tell her any differently. Nobody stopped her—she just took over the agenda and IEP meeting. I first tried to reason with her and implore her to just try and give DD the class notes and study guides as per her IEP, but she said there are no class notes. She is so brilliant she just teaches from memory. I finally looked at the sped supervisor and told the room “you know this is al illegal, don’t you?” she looked at the floor and said “yes” but did nothing. The teacher stood up and said if the IEp Team wouldn’t move DD out of her class, she take things into her own hands and do whatever it takes to get her out. 2 days later, she screamed so loud at DD that she thought she’d be hit and threatened her not to come home and tell me. That led to the OCR complaint and now investigation.

5. Explain how your input was or was not considered during the IEP meeting(s)?
See above---private evals rejected then lost, refused IEEs, then filed DP to defend their measily evals or even defend no evals, refuse to give me PWN on things they refuse, goals were formulated without ever discussing them with me at IEP meetings, then District types up final IEP with goals I never heard of or commented on. Also, I have had District take my signature for attendance and then attach it to an IEP they type up after the IEP meeting and add things they didn’t ever discuss with me or show to me.

6. Do you understand the IEP process? If not, would you appreciate learning more about the process?
I am no attorney, but I have been on this board and others, I have read books on sped and I tookd the Wrights Law course and have all of their books. I also belong to COPAA and learn a lot from the advocate and attorneys there. I have been through 3 mediations and a withdrawn DP, had the District file DP against me, had one advocate and a legal firm specializing in sped work for us. I have also filed with state dept of ed plus FCO (FERPA) and now OCR. I have talked about sped laws and IEPs with state dept of ed numerous times and OCR attorney. What I obviously haven’t learned well is how to outsmart the District and get what I want.

7. What could be done to improve your experience, or the experience of others, to help with the IEP process?
WOW! First, and I know this sound like I am as arrogant as the District, but I just live in a bad sped state (NJ) and in a blue ribbon district that doesn’t want sped kids. There is plain and simple a culture here in the schools that sped is a blight on the high state reputation of this district and high SAT scores. We have a fledgling SEPTA and one of the members told me he was told by the previous sped head that the District refuses to invest in sped at the middle school and high school. There are times that I wonder if finally exposing these evil doers would be the only way to make things better because they operate so under the radar. Certainly, they would help the teachers and kids if they spent a fair amount of the 1 million $$ of fed stimulus IDEA funds they are getting on education of the sped and general ed staffs on issues such as IDEA, Section 504, Disability Harassment, ADA 2009, Transition Planning, Assistive Technology on and on. How do you improve the culture of a District? That’s how to improve our experience and that of others. Honestly, this is a “top down” issue, and until the BOE, Super, sped head, etc stop the really ancient philosophy that “if you only tried harder, you wouldn’t be a sped kid” there isn’t much hope. All new admin. Is needed. I was like another poster said above, just a nut, crazy mom of kids from a 3rd world country who is too involved with her kids, looney tune and received no respect at all. I have a smidgeon of respect now that OCR believed me enough to investigate and send District super the famous “we are investigating you and do not retaliate” letter. Now I’m a still a nut but one they see as a bit smarter than they thought, a nut who happens to know the laws, keep good records and persuasive letters to the feds. By the way, my DD that was “incapable to learn a language” just finished her Italian I final with her private tutor today (paid for by me but we’ll see about comp ed…). She got a 92 on the final exam that was comprehensive for the entire year, and an 80 something for the last marking period. She isn’t incapable to learn, she doesn’t learn slower than anybody else, she just learns differently.

[jdeekdee]

aworriedmom, can you update about your dd and the italian teacher? Did dd get removed from her class? Did teacher ever get 'reprimanded' for her show out in the meeting? I highly doubt it, LOL.

[specialeducator]

Thank you all so much for your overwhelming responses.



I will be presenting to my class the link to this website as a resource site along with a paper on the results of your interview responses.

I am impressed, educated, and better informed towards being a quality educator of students with special needs.

[aterry]

Specialeducator, I'd be curious to learn whether the responses from parents fell along lines you expected, or are they surprising? In your class is there any discussion of the different perspectives between parents and school/district?

[jdeekdee]

Yea, I would like to know that too. Lots of times teachers are kept in the dark and don't know when the administrators are violating laws and telling them to do illegal things.

Do they talk about the problems that parents have? I would assume not.

Good luck with getting a job, but need to warn you that some teachers get fired for actually caring about the children, following the IDEA laws and doing the right things.

[aworriedmom]

Regarding the question about my DD's Italian I teacher......I can say somethings that were announced and some that I can't yet...but you all can probably figure out a lot of the rest.
....activites such as described above worsened greatly in especially May (3 months after the Gebser letter, which may come back to haunt DIstrict), focused at especialy my DD and others, as well. Multiple episodes, so clearly showed intent and not just a bad day. This was I would guess a contributing factor into why and how the District "investigated"....as of middle of May, teacher was no longer in classroom until end of year. A series of subs who did not teach the language at all filled in. For a week or so, the former teacher sent in assignments that were basically teach yourself, since the subs didn't have any credentials in that language. Other days, they had study halls. The kids were allowed to go to the media center, and after the first day of this, my DD told the subs she would be in the media center every day doing other work and she would not be returning to the study hall that this class had become. I think some other kids did this, too. There was one final occasion after which I finally DD be interviewed by VP with her Guidance counselor present under conditions I negotiated with District. Note that Case manager was not allowed to be present because I did not alow that, and have subsequently asked that she be replaced due to many factors. District has not done this. May be coincidental, but teacher was gone later that day.


...after about 10 days of this bogus assigments given by subs, I and probably other parents complained to the principals that this was a sham---no teacher, nobody to instruct, kids that were already failing could not teach themselves. For the first time all year, I received class notes from the administration which, as I wrote to the District, were just an outline of the Table of COntents of the book (which is college level).

..everntually, everybody gave up--no more assignments, just study halls.
....we still had tutor, which we had intensified over past few months. I kept writing letters, and got agreement that former teacher would grade none of DS work from April on (tutor would), and tutor would administer final exam and prepare DD for final. Many thanks for Dihicks for helping me with this and other correspondence. Her letter was a hundred times better than those of our former law firm.

...to best of my knowledge, the final for others was curved extensively. We heard that some kids just wrote jokes on the final since they were so lost. I was proud of DD that she put in the time with tutor to earn her grade for MP4 and final. Tutor was amazing, started to directly deal with Vice Principal that covers languages and she truly showed the good, professional side of teaching.

...it is my understanding that the former teacher had her daughter pick up homework while there were still these bogus assignments. It is my understanding that one kid in class asked Vice Principal one day when he came to discuss that there would, after all, be final exam "is she (teacher) barred from entering building?"

...BOE web site listed a private meeting before a regularly scheduled one "in which matters of possible discipline of an employee may be discussed."

The rest that I would be best not to detail just yet was very colorful and ugly and is ongoing, shall we say. I am certainly not finished with this. As said above, it is no secret now that OCR accepted the complaint, and is investigating.

For any of you that ever wondered what an OCR letter to a public school district looks like, I did see the one that OCR wrote our District when they finally agreed to give me access to review DD's records. Very formal, very detailed, very legally-based. Quoted of course IDEA, Section 504 laws, ADA 2009 amendments, civil rights act. Quite diferent that the state DOE sends when they agree to accept a complaint for investigation. I thought the implied threats for loss of federal funding were a nice touch (but I am a realist....)!
I would suspect a few people wet their pants, but they are so arrogant, that maybe not.

No matter how this all ends, the change in DD and her growing self advocacy is amazing. When she would try and self advocate earlier this year, she got disciplined for insubordination no matter if she was just reminding teachers of her accoms in a respectful manner. She stayed quiet for so long while I was sending letter after letter to the District. The day she finally went in and let it rip made for a lot of changes. Now, when she speaks up or just yesterday emailed a Vice Principal about an assignment her photo teacher forgot to give her credit for even with several reminders, she gets an answer and action. Its just a start, but I think this kid in her own way may have started to get administration to rethink the culture of this blue ribbon school regarding sped and rights of disabled. DOesn't mean they will do anything, but these are small steps that at least one kid took the chance to try and change.

I could write a novel about this but my preference would be to someday testify before one of the state education committees or something like that so that it might help prevent this from happening again. This should never happen to another kid in a public school.

Of course, there are many, many other ongoing IEP problems that are still far from resolved but we plug onward when we have the energy to do so.

[dihicks6]

Glad to have been able to help and I hope OCR brings their entire sped disability harassment,
clear violation of civil rights, sorry-ass actions, to a screeching halt. Sped students that come after your dd will greatly benefit.

Have you thought about negotiations regarding compensatory services, or at the very least, getting the tutor paid for? Would seem to be a logical step.

[Mayleng]

aworriedmom, I hope you will update and enlighten us more when you are able to. Helps to know what happened and what steps were taken etc. Thanks.

[michellea]

determinationin your studies and career. Here are my experiences:

1. How many IEP’s have you attended? Describe the type of IEP’s and the experience. (Initial, 3 year evaluation, annual, manifestation determination…etc)
I couldn't begin to count how many meetings - I've attended as a parent of my son since he left early intervention at age 3 - he is going into 7th grade. I also am a parent advocate and attend meetings with other families. I've attended all of the meeting types you have listed.

What hassurprisedd me is how different school districts interpret evaluations and regulations and how differently they follow the law. Even schools within the same district vary in the types of services they are willing to provide. I have seen some students gain placements in private schools with relatively mild disabilities, and other students with very severe disabilities fight for even basic services.

None of these situations are in financially strapped urban districts.....
2. Explain your role as an IEP team member?Parent or parent advocate

3. Who was involved in the IEP meeting(s) you have attended?Sped director, out of district coordinator, teachers (sped and gen ed), OT, SLP, PT, school adjustment counselor, principal, outside evaluator - depends on the situation.

4. Was the meeting conducted in a professional manner and were the ideas of all individuals respected?
Generallylspeakingg, schools try to be professional. There are often one or two participants that are know it alls, contrary and disrespectful.

5. Explain how your input was or was not considered during the IEP meeting(s)?
Usually my input is considered. Often times the team takes my ideas and concerns and brainstorms for a reasonable solution. This is the way it is supposed to work.

I have one client who is now working with a lawyer. One team memberinsistedd on blaming the student for his poor performance, rather than considering more intensive services. It got worse when she tried to convince us that being 4 years behind in reading was the best we could hope for.......... like I said, a lawyer is now on the case.

6. Do you understand the IEP process? If not, would you appreciate learning more about the process?
Yes. My state's PTIofferss a number of very effective parent training seminars that I attended early on. In addition, sights like this give me an understanding of how the process can go off track and some of the tactics that schools can employ. I now teach for my state's PTI.

7. What could be done to improve your experience, or the experience of others, to help with the IEP process?
If there were more resources available to help children, schools would not be under such pressure to balance the bottom line and student performance. Parents and teachers need to be more knowledgeable about the process, learningdisabilitiess, accommodations, remedial programs. Student needs should be at the center of every discussion.