LD, OHI, ED classifications

[2pearl]

Wow- I am really missing Schwab these days and I know a lot of former members are here so here goes...
Can anyone tell me why a school would be pushing to change my son's classification from OHI, LD to LD, ED? My son's dx is ADHD, LD. He is in eighth grade and struggling in school academically and behaviorally. We just had an IEP meeting this morning in which we began discussing a possible change of placement to another school. How does it change things from their perspective to change the classification? BTW I was quite clear in my oppositon to this today and I just want to be sure it's justified.
Thanks!
2pearl

[jdeekdee]

First, write a letter to the head of that meeting recapping everything that was said in the meeting. State again that you disagree with the classification. ( This disagreement HAS to be in writing, or they might say you did not disagree)
And request 'prior written notice' for this change. This is VERY important. This will show you their true reason and if it's a LEGAL reason.

If you don't agree, they can't do it because ALL members of the IEP team, including YOU, has to agree on everything.

From what I hear from other parents, the only reason they want the classification of ED is so they can throw the child in with other behavior students and this makes the child worse. And, the school just don't help these kids.

Why do they want a change to another school? What school? Do you agree with this? In your letter, also request PWN on their reason for this.

[cnoe]

My guess is that they are focusing on his behavioral issues. Middle schools are often very inflexible in regards to behavioral problems (often more so than even high schools). Most schools do not have behavioral (ED) classrooms on every campus, so they probably want to place him where this class is. In some cases, state or local policies say that a student must have an ED label to be in an ED class.

You should request a functional behavioral assessment (FBA) to analyize causes & factors involved in his behavior. Then a behavior intervention plan (BIP) should be developed to be implemented at his campus. If it does not work, then the BIP should be revised.

Unless your state is different than most, they can change his placement without your agreement. You can fight them & possibly stop the change temporarily or permanently, but no where in IDEA does it say that there has to be agreement. Congress anticipated disagreements, & that is why the procedural safeguards were put into the law & regulations.

You will soon get a lot more good information & suggestions.

[rw]

"We just had an IEP meeting this morning in which we began discussing a possible change of placement to another school. "

Do you agree with the school change? If they are moving him to a new school, they probably have to have ED in his record to make this move.

[Mayleng]

The ED label will take them off the hook. They want to ship him off to another school to deal with behavior problems. Most of these schools do not really help the behavior problem. They just warehouse problem kids there.

DO NOT let them change the category. Did they do an FBA and a BIP? Do they have anything in his IEP to help with the behaviors.

[2pearl]

yep, have a FBA and a BIP that we have met twice to make changes to already this year. The problem is that he has 9 different teachers during the course of the day... the teachers who are consistent have little difficulty with him but the ones the who aren't are having significant problems with him. These issues have been on-going since the fourth grade.
I am well aware of the limited options we have in terms of change of placement. Today the team agreed that the instructional behavioral classroom is not appropriate and I think we'll reach the same consensus on the therapeutic schools in the area. There is one private LD school (Acacia Academy)about 10 miles away that I know the district has placed students in before. It is for gifted, regular ed and LD, ADHD students. DS's behavioral problems as characterized today are talking out in class and/or making rude comments, not following directions, arguing (with certain teachers when they try to enforce a consequence) He has normal peer relations, does not act out at home or in the community, no drugs, alcohol or criminal behavior. He is extrordinarily impulsive and has a low tolerance for frustration. He's basically a good kid when he's not in school.
I have a meeting at Acacia on Monday and I'm hoping that it seems like the right place. If it is then I am all for the change in placement and I'm fairly certain they will pay the tuition. We made no decisions today and are meeting again in 1 week to make the final decision.
Thanks for all the replies, I'm sure I'll be back soon.

[Mayleng]

They don't need to change to ED for a change of placement.

[sleepy]

"The problem is that he has 9 different teachers during the course of the day... the teachers who are consistent have little difficulty with him but the ones the who aren't are having significant problems with him."

Are they considering the private school because all teachers are more structured and consistent?

[sld123]

a reeval must occur for a change of placement.

i would not go with a change to ed as it does not sound like he is and some ld schools will not accept if they see that ed in the records

[zippity]

You can't change placement without a team meeting and if all the team but yourself agree then it's time to contact an attorney and invoke a stay put.

Have you asked them why they want the classification change? I didn't read anything specific. Remember and remind them, it is the needs not the label that gets the services, then the placement is decided in a Least Restrictive Environment. He doesn't sound seriously disturbed or going to hurt himself or others. I would want to know why he is like this at school, in certain classes but not all. Sounds like he might not be appropriately challenged. IF they have new information then they can share it in an IEP and I would have no other discussions unless it is on the record. You can always state you will consider the information they have but then return with some more of your own. Like specifically a note from your childs pediatrician.

I would contact my child's pediatrician and psychologist because they have the weight to dissallow such classifications. What do they say? Who is changing the classifications and get a real good look at their credentials, are they qualified in making that classification?

Have you looked up what ED is? Would your child's doctor agree that it is an ongoing unchanged behavior for more than 6 months. OR and this is a big OR, really just a manifestation of the difficulties your child is facing in light of an unresponsive school.

They tried to pull this on my kid who came to public school with private evaluations and services. It was a district who had their own contracts with state and were their own AB3632 providers. These are things you need to ask. In our case the more students they could identify under the ED label they could get extra funding and still not provide services, well the real services needed.

If he is still exhibiting behaviors in some classes but not others I woud ask the behaviorist why. Request they go find out how well the BIP is being followed or does the BIP really not meet the needs of your child? Heck maybe your child needs related services like OT, does he have any sensory issues? OT can address attentional issues as well as other behaviors. Granted some school districts want to act like all they have to address are the academics but not true.

ReRead what LRE is. Is your child more restricted because of what he is going through at this school? Or would it be more restrictive to put him in a school when the other one just needed to address ALL of his unique needs? Things to consider.

YOu are within your rights to go observe any proposed programs or placement changes.

" talking out in class and/or making rude comments, not following directions, arguing (with certain teachers when they try to enforce a consequence) " I am no expert but this sounds like the ADHD he is diagnosed with. What are they providing in Language Pragmatics? What is he communicating with those behaviors. I think I would be asking the FBA person to revisit and structure a more appropriate BIP, ask that they offer some communications help with a SLP and try other things before the placement change.

If you went to court, a judge would want to know all that was tried before a placement change.

[empeg1]

It does sound like an ADHD problem and an even bigger problem of trying to get all 9 MS teachers on the same page. Has the school considered changing teachers-from with those who are not following the behavior plan to teachers who will? Then too, 9 different teachers. Jeez, that is a lot for an MS student!

The school you mentioned, Acacia; is it a private, special education school? Does it specialize only in working with ED kids...perhaps the reason for the change in eligibility to ED?

I would check out the school you mentioned. Look to see if you can see your son at this school? Observe the other kids carefully, the way that behavior is managed in the class, how much acting out there is, the way that class are taught and how the teachers interact with the kids.

Also, what state are you in? In CA, a classification of ED brings in county mental health (AB3832). Would it work to have a counselor come into the school to work with your son and his teachers?

I do have one other question to ask and I hope what I ask is okay. What treatment is your son receiving for his ADHD? Does he take medication? If not, might he be helped at school and would you consider medication at this point? (I know his behavior is different at home. However, school, especially MS and HS, put many more demands on him than at home, for focused work, completing work (on time) that is not high interest, adjusting to different expectations across teachers and different authority figures, etc.). If he is takings medication do you think a change in dosage or medication should be looked at now? Does your son see a child psychiatrist? I do hope a GP or pediatrician is not prescribing medication if your son takes the above. If this is the case, ask for a referral to a psychiatrist. Finally, treatment for ADHD does not just include medication. Is your son working with a therapist who might be able to help him?

I do agree that the school is not working hard enough to provide consistent assistance to your son. At the same time, your son is struggling. I would also focus on what you can do to help him.

[bros]

In Middle school, I had... like 7 teachers a semester.

And since in MS, we aren't allowed to choose electives, our morning and afternoon electives switched every quarter. So I had... like 12 teachers total.

And only the ones who I had the first quarter knew about my IEP. None of the others were ever informed. That was fun.

One time my parents yelled at the school so much that I was exempted from Art for a year in MS. Instead, I got to practice on my typing skills and help a disabled student with Cerebral Palsy.

[sharie001]

My advice would be to : Just say "NO" to ED classification!

[cnoe]

"a reeval must occur for a change of placement"

IDEA regulations 300.305(e) say that an evaluation is required before saying that a student is no longer a child with a disability. It is not required for a change of placement.

However, it is totally appropriate to ask for additional evaluations & review of all types of data & that a variety of interventions be tried before a more restrictive LRE is implemented. The fact that a number of the teachers have little or no problems with him, strengthens your case that the problem is with the teachers & techniques used, not with your child.

[2pearl]

He is under the care of a psychiatrist and we also have a therapist. Both agree wholeheartedly that he is not ED. He does take medication (focalin XR) but as my previous 730 posts on this board will attest, we have literally tried them all! ! Focalin is the only one that he tolerates well however it is far from perfect.
As I mentioned before, he has been struggling for years in school and we have tried pretty much everything with no success and I do believe it is time to intervene and find a smaller school that can address his needs.
Acacia is a private school that does not accept ED students to the best of my knowledge.
We live in well funded district and I think what I want is a small, private school for LD, ADHD kids at district expense. This is the second time they have tried to get me to agree to re-classify him and I really don't get why.
Do I need to request PWN now even though they didn't push it at the meeting after I disagreed? I want to be ready in case it comes up again. I think I am going to write the letter re-capping the meeting and stating in it that I disagreed on the classification change. Also, I thought a school can't unilaterally change a child's placement unless they have violent or brought a weapon to school? Is this true?

[sld123]

§300.552 Placements. In determining the educational placement of a child with a disability, including a preschool child with a disability, each public agency shall ensure that—
(a) The placement decision—
(1) Is made by a group of persons, including the parents, and other persons knowledgeable about the child, the meaning of the evaluation data, and the placement options; and
(2) Is made in conformity with the LRE provisions of this subpart, including §§300.550–300.554;

[rw]

"Acacia is a private school that does not accept ED students to the best of my knowledge.
We live in well funded district and I think what I want is a small, private school for LD, ADHD kids at district expense. This is the second time they have tried to get me to agree to re-classify him and I really don't get why."

Do they know that you want to transfer him to Acacia at the district's expense? Maybe they are trying to get him reclassified to ED knowing Acacia doesn't accept ED students, therefore letting them off the hook of having to pay for him to go there?

If they are pushing this, there is a reason and I'm sure it's to benefit them in some way!

[majorv]

I was looking at our Procedural Safeguards and it says that it has to be determined whether the student's behavior is a manifestion of their disability or not. If it isn't then they must be disciplined as any other student would, except that they must continue to receive FAPE. From what I read, you and the school must agree to a change of placement as part of the modifications of the BIP, if it is determined to be a manifestation of the student's disability. Any disagreement on change of placement would trigger an expedited due process hearing. There is a separate section for changing placement because they brought a weapon or drugs to school, or caused serious injury to another.

I'm wondering if your son might have ODD also. Being argumentative is one characteristic of that disorder and frequently co-occurs with ADHD. The ADHD meds would normally help control it. It could be stress, too..

[sld123]

put all disagreements in writing for your child's perm. ed. file

ask them to explain better.

[healthy11]

2pearl, I'm also in the Chicago area, and I've heard good things about Acacia...They usually have a representative and displays of their students artwork at the local annual IDA (International Dyslexia Association) meeting in Oakbrook every year.....I'm not sure how they deal with highly impulsive ADHD kids, though...and sadly, even if your son does get placed there this year, what would he do for High School? Unless your area is unusual, you'll probably be dealing with a different school district next year, right?

[jdeekdee]

''This is the second time they have tried to get me to agree to re-classify him and I really don't get why.''

Request PWN, this will let you know why.

[2pearl]

healthy 11- Acacia goes through high school but I also am wondering if it will be good place for a highly impulsive ADHD kid. On a good note the Special Ed resource teacher (who is also his case manager) has him for 4 periods a day. She said in the meeting that while he challenged her in the beginning of the year he now behaves fine for her and does his work in her class.
She is actually the one who brought Acacia up in the first place and has worked with them before for other students.
Thanks for that sld123, it made me realize that they wanted me to agree to a change of placement without providing specific placement options ( as in specific schools or programs). I They told me that after we sign the paperwork for the change of placement that I would meet with the special ed director and she would go through the different programs with me. Now that I think about it, that's pretty weird.

[healthy11]

2pearl, it sounds to me like your elementary/middle school district is less likely to object to an out of district placement because your son only has a few months of schooling left for them to pay for. Even if your son was able to get in to Acacia this year, my fear is that the different high school district would challenge his out of district placement, and make you try whatever they offer. Maybe it would be okay, maybe not. You might want to check out what's available in your local public H.S. beforehand.
(I'm NW of Chicago, so I'm sure it's a different district than you're in, but our public H.S. rep told me they offered separate classes for kids who had ADHD/LD issues, versus ED/BD issues.)

[socalgal]

A lot of people posted on Schwab that the ED classification could be very problematic.

[empeg1]

I think a parent must be careful with any special education classification. The ED classification is unfortunate in its wording. However, there are times when it is a classification that can help, not hurt. So, I would not go for a blanket "do not accept that classification on an IEP". My oldest dd was eligible for an IEP under SLD, beginning in the 1st grade. In HS, through a tragedy and a number of deaths in the family, my dd began to slide rapidly. She had PTSD. It became necessary to change the eligibility on her IEP to ED, with a secondary classification of SLD, in order to get the help she needed. In CA, the ED classification brought a referral to county mental health, who really stepped in. My dd was found eligible for residential treatment, which was necessary at that point to save her life. Without the ED classification and the AB36 referral to country mental health, I would have had no way to pay for such a program. It turned out that my dd's case manager from county mental health was wonderful. She was a support to me, really good in working with my dd, a true advocate for my dd with the SD, and someone who helped to bring about a good outcome for my child. It also turns out that the records from country mental health are sealed. The IEP with its ED classification has had no negative effect for my dd as a young adult.

So, I think it is important to look at the needs of your child. It also turns out that an ED class is not necessarily a dumping ground. My youngest dd's HS has an ED SDC. The teacher is marvelous; he is both a therapist and trained as a special education teacher. The kids are mainstreamed in academic classes. The the above teacher carefully monitoring their progress and works closely with the GE teachers. I have spoken with the parents in the above program, as I was interested in the teacher being an advocate for my youngest dd. The parents are all very pleased with the program. So. look to a specific school, specific program and your child in deciding what is best, not a label.

[cnoe]

sld123, your citation can assist a parent, but does not require a reevaluation when a change of placement is proposed or done.

[sld123]

if the team does not know what the child's plaafps are, how could they justify a change of placement?

[cnoe]

While that may be true, a reevaluation is not required by IDEA.

[sld123]

an appropriate eval report is needed to develop an appropriate iep