Instructional vs Resource

[2pearl]

I know this post probably belongs at Schwab, at I'll probably post it there as well, but I know so many of you here may know how to respond to this so here goes.
We had our IEP meeting today for my LD son. We just switched to a new district. Anyway, they are placing him in an Instructional setting rather than just resource. I don't why I'm so upset about this but I am. My entire jaw is still aching from trying not to cry during the meeting. I know this is probably best but I sooo did not see this coming. Is there any reason at all that I would want to have them consider a different type placement? Pros and cons to an instructional setting?

[d]

What is "instructional" setting? Self-contained or colloborative/inclusion?

And how old is he?

What do you know about the new district's instructional setting? Have you heard negative/positive comments and results or nothing?

So sorry - those IEP meetings are so draining aren't they?

[2pearl]

I don't know. What's colloborative/inclusion? I don't even know what I should be asking so thank you for giving me a starting point!
Resource is when the amount of minutes is 50% or less of the school day. Instructional is when it's over. He will be in a completely different class for reading, math and language arts, not with a resource instructor, an actual class of 11 kids ranging from 3rd-5th grade. My son is 10 and in 4th grade.

[Mayleng]

It sounds like inclusion class. Before you get upset. Ask to check it out - go and see what the class is like, ask for the "profile" of the students in that class. If you feel that is not where he belongs, you can always disagree, since they have to keep him in the last restrictive environment.

I know Lurknomore here had her son in a similar class , and he has done well there.

But checkout more of the class.

[d]

Around here - colloborative/inclusion is class of 22-24 students, with about 4-5 on IEP. The class is taught by a general ed teacher, sp ed teacher and an aide.

Here's some more questions. How is the instructional setting of 3rd-5th graders grouped? Is it a bunch of different dx's like 2 severe LD, 2 ED, 1 AS, etc.? (I think you can get a report from the school on the class make-up without identifying who the kids are.) What are the instructional setting methods and how do they differ from RR programs? What is the proof of performance on the instructional setting methods? How can a class like that not be taught by a sp ed teacher (it probably is)? How are they going to deliver "individualized" instruction in that class?

[Mayleng]

Yeah, what d says too.

[2pearl]

These are great questions! I'm going tomorrow to check out the class. It is taught by a special ed teacher and there are 3 aides. They say that most of the kids are LD.

[VaMom]

Let us know how your investigation of the class goes today. Here's hoping it's a relatively quiet place where the kids have the opportunity for multi-sensory learning (with manipulatives, on the computer, etc., as well as traditional methods.)

[Mayleng]

Make sure it is not a place for Emotional Disabilities.

[2pearl]

I already know there are ED kids there. One severe.
Ever since I woke up this morning I just can't stop thinking about how that meeting went. Wasn't I supposed to be a part of this decision?

[Mayleng]

Yes you are if he has an IEP. If there is a severe ED kid there, who is disruptive, then it is not the right environment for learning. YOu can always disagree and document your disagreement.

[d]

2pearl said:

Wasn't I supposed to be a part of this decision?

Yes, take a deep breath and give yourself a day or two to do your homework on that class. dihicks on schwab is expert at this, but there are ways to "fight" it. I think there is something called a 'stayput' where if you disagree with sp ed committee reco's, you can stay with the current IEP/placement and there is a year to resolve it. Also, I found that my district absolutely hates when I document in a concise strongly worded sentence or two something to the effect of 'disagree with the team decision, of which I am a full member'. I'd also shift the situation to put them on the defense asking them what proven instructional methods will be used specific to your son's needs - with new IDEA and NCLB they may but shouldn't be able to dance around that like they used to.

[2pearl]

I just go back from visiting the class. The room wreaked of vomit, I would say that every kid in the room "appeared" to have some sort of either a dx disability such as autism and tourettes and the rest were either emotionally or behaviourally disturbed.
I am so upset right now I can barely breathe. I spoke with the principal and asked that this placement be delayed and that I would like to recovene the IEP meeting. She agreed and it has been scheduled for this Thursday.
I can't do this one by myself. I guess I need an advocate and fast.

[joemegmom]

At your meeting, you need to ask how this setting ( the instructional setting) is the least restrictive envionment for you child ? and how this setting will be able to benefit your child? I think it is important to go with your gut and you did not like the "instructional" room ( also know as self-contained) so I think you are wise to get the advocate...sounds like they are tying to pull a fast one on you.
Good luck

[d]

2pearl said:

I can't do this one by myself. I guess I need an advocate and fast.

Call Gina NOW please!!!! She can either do it for you, point you to another advocate who can or give you tips to do it yourself. But, I'd say do yourself a favor and get outside help to handle it for you - sheesh you have enough on your plate already.

[Mayleng]

Yup, i agree with d, get Gina or an advocate now. It does not sound like an appropriate setting for your son, why would they put him in there? You need to get them to justify why they think it is appropriate and need to document everything.

[2pearl]

When I was at the school this afternoon picking up the kids the reg ed teacher came out and asked if she could speak with me. She said that she heard that I was upset after visiting the classroom today. She said a lot of things but here is what stood out. She told me that my son came into the school with too many minutes for the resource teacher to handle, that the resource teacher has 25 kids already. She said the she thinks I should not only view the instructional class during an instructional time but also ask more questions about how this is going to benefit my son and why it's the least restrictive environment. She encouraged me to be an "advocate" for my son and mentioned that the children in the instructional class don't have parents who advocate for them?
I'm going to call Gina. Something isn't right here.

[d]

That teacher should be hugged for doing what she did. Read between the lines with what she said - she was basically giving you the heads up in the limited way she legally could plus had some very good suggestions. She spoke up for your ds's best interest, which happens to confirm your instincts - can't ignore that.

I'm glad you advocate for your kids and I'm REALLY GLAD you're calling Gina.

[Mayleng]

That is a good teacher, and she is trying to tell you without coming right out and putting her job at risk. So get Gina and refuse this placement. If the teacher is telling you indirectly, then listen to her, it is not the right placement. Fight it. If they don't have enough Resource Room teachers, that is not your problem, then they should hire another one instead of overworking this one.

[2pearl]

Huge sigh of relief (at least for the moment). I got Gina and feel so much better. I decided today that I will never go into another IEP meeting without an advocate. I'll keep you all posted. Cross your fingers that it's resolved swiftly and to my satisfaction!

[d]

2pearl said:

Huge sigh of relief (at least for the moment). I got Gina and feel so much better. I decided today that I will never go into another IEP meeting without an advocate. I'll keep you all posted. Cross your fingers that it's resolved swiftly and to my satisfaction!

Yeah!!!! Good for you. And, !

[Mayleng]

keeping fingers crossed for ya , now relax and enjoy the long weekend.

[Mayleng]

Pearl2, here's a letter from OSEP which has a part about least restrictive environment which applies to you.

www.schwablearning.org/message_boards/view_messages.asp?thread=17918

[VaMom]

2 pearl,

Fingers tightly crossed! What a flippin nightmare! And what an awesome gen. ed. teacher! I am really wondering about the resource teacher's caseload. If it is as the gen.ed. teacher says, I think your school is in violation. Cannot WAIT to hear your advocate's take on this.

Also, may I ask you all, who is Gina? I missed something... I know she is the advocate... but is she on this board? I am feeling very, very dense. (But hey, that's nothing new.

[d]

vamom said:

Also, may I ask you all, who is Gina? I missed something... I know she is the advocate... but is she on this board? I am feeling very, very dense. (But hey, that's nothing new.

Gina is a former school psychologist who went on her own. She is *excellent* and knows how to navigate the school system. I don't know what you "call" her now, an educational psychologist/advocate?

[2pearl]

Mayleng- Thanks for the link to that letter. Very relevant. The plot thickens... my next neighbor is the school psycologist for the high school (my neighbor on the side is a child psych, what are the odds?) anyway I was talking to her about this situation and she told me that they just cut the resource staff at my son's school from 2 down to 1. They are clearly understaffed and I think they are making this placement based on this and NOT the LRE.

Va mom, don't feel dense. I first learned of Gina a year or two ago on the Schwablearning board. She is very knowledgable and has helped a lot people over there.

[Mayleng]

VAmom, Gina was a school pysch and has now gone out on her own to advocate for other kids. She also has an ADHD child. She is also a friend and has helped quite a few parents are Schwablearning.org.

I have put her contact info under the advocate thread on this board.

millermom.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=Education&action=display&thread=1125678273

[Mayleng]

You are welcomed Pearl2.

[2pearl]

Wish us luck- tomorrow is the big meeting. I feel like I'm going to puke I'm so nervous.

[d]