Should I retain my son this school year?

[mrsb00]

Ahhh! I am so confused on what to do with my son this upcoming school year. At the end of this past school year my son's first grade teacher, aka our next door neighbor, advised us that ds was not ready to go to 2nd grade. She compared his work with another student who was just a "b average" student and you could see a huge difference in the work. She had me convinced that this was the right thing to do.

Then I started researching about retention in students. Basically there is nothing out there research wise that says it is beneficial. All I could find was the negative.

I just gave a copy of DS's report card to his father. My DH took DS to his father's to meet yesterday for a long visit. EX told DH that he believes more than ever that DS should repeat first grade. DH agrees and told me that I have expected a miracle to occur over the summer with summer school and I also have him being tutored. His final quarter report card he earned a B, 3 D's and an F. Part of me feels that he should be held back, but then I start thinking about how he will be so much older (Jan. birthday), he's taller than the kids his own age, how is he going to look compared to kids a full year plus younger than him, etc. Then I feel like he should repeat because the poor child struggled SO MUCH this year...it was hell. But there is no guarantee that he will "get it" this year and thus be prepared for 2nd grade next year!

Then there is the thought of moving him forward, revamping his IEP and basically forcing the school to do what they should. All it takes is just one good teacher and this could be the one!

I'm just sick from worry over it. Honestly, it would not phase my ds. He is a pretty oblivious child, tends to keep to himself and has no real social attatchments. It probably would be worse on me than him.

Has anyone else had to experience this or what do you think you would do if faced with the same decision?

ANY words/suggestions would help!

~Dana

[Mayleng]

Dana, what you read about retention is correct - if they are going to teach the child the same way they did this year and he failed, he is not going to "get it". What are they doing in terms of remediating him? Does he go to resource room to help? What is in his IEP? My friend, Gina, who was a School psych and is now in private practice would tell you that retention does not work. If your son was going to be retained in Kindergarten, it would be different. You have to ask yourself, if they retain him, are they going to do anything different to help him?

Does your son have other Learning Disabilities, other than ADHD?

[notab]

Dana,

I'm sorry you are going through this, it sounds very difficult and frustrating.

I was reading over your other posts to refresh myself about your situation. I think in one you said that your son is very different at school than at home - more withdrawn, etc. Mine also acts differently at school. My pediatrician thinks that it is likely caused by Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD), and I think she may be right. You said that your son's hearing was normal - did they test him for CAPD? There is a thread under Comorbids on this site dealing with Tolerance Fading Memory CAPD subtype. It also lists the characteristics of the other CAPD subtypes. Inattention and withdrawal are definitely characteristics of this problem as the kids get overwhelmed in verbal or noisy situations. If it is CAPD there are some classroom accommodations that can be made to make it easier for your son.

It sounds like your teacher/neighbor is not helping the situation either!

Just a thought,
Cindy

[mrsb00]

Mayleng,
No, my son dos not have any LD with his ADHD. The school wouldn't refer for him to be tested so I had a private psych test him. She said he did score low in some areas, but there was not enough of a descrepancy between his IQ and the scores. She believes that his severe inattention problem is interfering with his ability to retain info.

Currently there is nothing in his IEP for accomodations. Through the summer I have sent a letter to the principal requesting a review of his current IEP. She had me fill out a parent referral for Sp Ed a few weeks ago and I have yet to hear back from them. The only thing in his IEP is for social work and speech therapy for the "th" sound and a few minor things for the classroom such as extra time needed, etc. The psych. was also against retention but then once she tested my son she was in the same boat as I am.

Cindy,
I had suspected CAPD in the fall and had his hearing checked by an audiologist. Everything was fine there and a CAPD diagnosis was not pursued.

I feel like research and doctors appointments and everything else has become my second full time job trying to get to the bottom of why he just doesn't "get it" and then trying to help him. Part of the reason I wanted to send him to 2nd grade was that I was not going to keep my mouth shut this year. This year the school is going to help my son. I can't believe a child can be doing so poorly and yet they wouldn't refer him to Sp Ed. I was just livid!!

If I do pursue him going to 2nd grade, I'm not sure what to even ask for or to expect!

Thanks for your responses. I appreciate it!

~Dana

[pattislp]

I wouldn't retain, I would remediate at home this summer through a private tutor or speech pathologist. I faced a similar problem with my daughter about 6 years ago. She was way behind her peers and I had tried to work with the school for YEARS but she didn't make progress. I worked with her and also got private tutors. Are their any learning video games that he would enjoy like Reading Rabbit, Carmen SanDiego or something of that nature? Is he not able to read? Where is he really hitting the skids?

with the proper remediation combined with treatment for ADD he should be able to catch up without being retained since he cognition is intact. I have worked with 16 year old kids in middle school who were retained not once but twice and the inattentive ADD interferred with their progress. They were not only 2 years older than their current classmates but they were still functioning way below their current classmates.

It wasn't that they needed more time and repetition to catch the concepts what these kids needed was remediation in addition to having their ADD treated to grasp the remediation into their foundational background knowledge.

[Mayleng]

Dana, can you tell where the weakness is? Is he having problems reading, comprehending, expressive language, written expression? Can you pinpoint where his major issue is?

You can request the school do an academic evaluation - make it a written request. Once you know where his weaknesses are, ask what the school is going to do in terms of remediation.

I agree with Patti, get him tutoring outside of school too. I am working with my son this summer on written expression. He has TFM (tolerance FAding memory as well as ADHD/In). He is lacking in organization skills which has affected his written skills (written expression).

[TexasMom]

mrsb00,

I would seriously look for an LD. ADD can definately affect learning, but often there is an underlying LD.

You might want to go to schwablearning.org to the message board there and get suggestions about a possible LD.

When your son was evaluated by an audiologist did they specifically look for an auditory processing disorder or was it just to tell if he could hear? My son hears sound levels just fine, however, he has severe CAPD. CAPD is not a "hearing" problem, it is a processing problem.

[brazos]

I suspect an undiagnosed LD as well. I think my judgement of retention has been clouded by watching relatives and friends of my kids. These kids never succeed, my brother who now is a very successful adult was held back one grade and then by his senior year the school wanted to deny his graduation.

School is not real life it is just school. Some kids are better at than others.

I think you are trusting your instinct to protect your baby. I am not versed at all in CAPD but I do know that my youngest was screened for dyslexia at school and they were wrong. Scottish Rite has a full battery of tests that are acurate and fair. If your son has dyslexia they will tell you if not they will tell you also.

Bottom line my advise is to seek help away from school and trust your gut.

[VaMom]

Do NOT retain! Here is what retention is: They are laying the problems of a young child squarely at his own feet. You couldn't do the work, so we'll flunk you.

It is their legal responsibility and your legal right to have your child's IEP reflect his needs. Clearly it is not currently doing that. I agree that you should have him privately tested -- I am sorry that you have to spend the money for this when the school should be doing it. When you get the results you are going to have to press the school until they accept them or agree to re-test him themselves. This doesn't sound easy and it won't be, but your child cannot afford to wait much longer and you are his very best advocate. Put everything in writing and exhaust every avenue. Make sure, above all, that they know you are NOT going away. Good luck and stay in touch.

[brazos]

And VAmom said what I wanted too loudly! LOL

[mrsb00]

Thanks everyone. In my gut I think that moving him forward and getting the remediation is what is right. Then when I talk to my husband, I start to back away. It is going to take A LOT of convincing with him, my son's father and his wife that that is the right thing to do. I told my husband that it's not that I don't value anyone else's opinion, but it is something about a mother's intuition.

Mayleng-his weakness seem to be all over the board. He has difficulty reading, even your common site words, very difficult for him, as well as fluency. He went through the Reading Recovery program and only got to level 4. Ugh. I was so frustrated with that teacher. She basically taught him to look at pictures to try to figure things out. Soon he was always looking at the picture and then would get lost when he would try to go back to find his place.

He has a long term memory problem, definitely. He can't retain anything. He could manage to get A's and B's on his spelling tests because we would work every night on them and then he would do well on the test. If you were to go back 3 weeks and have him spell a former word, he couldn't do it.
He does terrible in grammar, written expression. When he would do diction it was so awful. Poor kid would spell things they way he thought they sounded. For example on one paper he wrote "I see a blil bird in the sky." ( I see a blue bird in the sky.) or "The tet burd bee for the tree." (The twigs burn before the tree."

Math he didn't seem to have as much trouble in. The teacher thought when it came to time and money he would be lost, but no, he caught on to that very well. He has a difficult time with addition and subtraction. I'm sure because of the amount of attention it requires.

What has been frustrating is the inconsistency. He can have an A day and then an F day the next. Not a whole lot in between. Of course that made the teacher believe he was lazy. He would do something so good and then the next day act absolutely clueless.

It is almost better for my husband and I if we DON'T help him of the evening. My son gets so frustrated and so burnt out. It is like pulling teeth to get him to sit down and oh, the attitude! I've tried the fun computer games, I've bought the Leaplad Learning stuff, I've bought the workbooks, but once he realizes it's to help him learn, he doesn't want a thing to do with it!

I suspected he was dyslexic, but the psych. couldn't confirm with out doing a full reading eval. She couldn't pinpoint exactly what the problem was; only to say that there "is something there." That tells me she's a bit baffled too!

So where do I go from here? I'm not really sure anymore. I don't know what the principal is doing since I haven't heard back from her since I submitted the referral form. What type of evaluations do I ask? There is about 5 weeks to go before school starts. My hope is that with the revamp of his IEP, a new teacher and to continue with his current tutor that this year has go to be better!

To make matters worse, he is spending a total of 5 weeks this summer with his father. They are broken down into one week increments with one two week (which is now). He is not receiving the tutor since it's 3 hours away from here, so when he does see the tutor we are trying to cram it in. I'm sending workbooks etc, but I don't know that they are really enforcing him to practice. Ugh.

Dana

[Mayleng]

Dana, Have the school do Academic testing, since you already have the IQ done privately (right?). Do every request in writing for a paper trail. Is your tutor using a multisensory program to teach him to read? What program is the tutor using? It does sound like he has an LD and he definitely needs remediation not retention. Reading Recovery has not been effective for alot of kids. What has helped kids learn to read is the OG method or Lindamood Bell. I would follow up with the Principal and ask when the evaluation is going to be .

Here are some sites you can go to find out about the evaluations and your rights.

www.concordspedpac.org/
www.cesa7.k12.wi.us/sped/Parents/plainlanguageindex.htm
www.wrightslaw.com/
www.listen-up.org/rights/rights.htm#comp

[mrsb00]

Mayleng-since I have already filled out the SP ED referral form, do I also submit a request for an academic eval on top of that as well? I'm a little confused about some of the timelines. How long do I expect for them to do this? Will they have to wait until school starts to do any type of evals?

Thanks!

Dana

[Mayleng]

mrsb00 said:

Mayleng-since I have already filled out the SP ED referral form, do I also submit a request for an academic eval on top of that as well? I'm a little confused about some of the timelines. How long do I expect for them to do this? Will they have to wait until school starts to do any type of evals?

Thanks!

Dana

Dana, I don't know what form you signed. If it is for evaluations, then the clock starts when you sent in the form. How long they have to do the eval depends on which state you are in. In NY, I think it is like 45 days (to complete the evaluation). The range between 45 to 60 days. You should call the school now, and ask to clarify what that form you signed was for and when they will be doing the evaluations to see if he has any LDs.

[brazos]

Scottish Rite does free evaluations for dyslexia, it takes 6 months to get one though. A psych or special evaluation may not help you at this point. My son had a lot of the same symptons and did not qualify for SE.

Find a dyslexic evaluation and you might get help from them!

[SharonF]

mrsb--

Some thoughts...the new IDEA that took effect July 1st gives us more options than just IQ/achievement discrepancy for determining if a child qualifies for an IEP as Specific Learning Disabled. The law's big new push is "Response to Intervention."

In case you don't know, RTI is used when a kid is struggling but doesn't officially qualify for an IEP as SLD. The school tries specialized instruction (intervention) designed to meet the child's unique learning needs. If the kid still struggles (lack of response), the law says the school MUST consider an IEP in the areas of difficulty. Regardless of the IQ/achievement discrepancy.

Most states/school districts are still grappling with what constitutes appropriate intervention and how long the kid must struggle in intervention before an IEP is approved. But you've already got proof that their interventions aren't working. Nationwide, research shows Reading Recovery is an abysmal failure for kids with language processing difficulties.

I would request that school the create an intervention program (over and above his IEP) and monitor his response to that intervention. If there is no significant improvement in 6-weeks, it's time for them to stop the RTI and revise his IEP to reflect his true needs.

From what you describe, I think it is likely your son has a language processing problem. It may be dyslexia, it may not. There's no universally-accepted criteria for dyslexia. But it appears your son has difficulty with reading and with written expression. Those are both language processing issues.

A heads up about IQ tests. Kids with language processing difficulties often have lower-than-expected IQ scores on the WISC, meaning their IQ is more reflective of how they do in a classroom but not how bright they truly are. If the psych uses the WISC and your son's score is not great, you may want to try a nonverbal IQ test like the Universal Nonverbal Intelligence Test (UNIT) or Children's Test of Nonverbal Intelligence (C-TONI.) If the UNIT or C-TONI score is significantly above the WISC full scale, there is a very strong likelihood your child has language processing disorder. It also may help you make your case for his IEP to require multi-sensory instruction, as opposed to teaching only using words.

Your son's spelling problems could be due to many different things but I really suspect CAPD. I realize the audiologist has ruled it out, but that kind of spelling is usually found in kids with severe CAPD, not just ADHD. Keep pushing. What CAPD tests did the audiologist do? I'd like to see the scores if you have them. Did the school do a CELF-3 (Clinical Evaluation of Language Fundamentals)?

Finally...why is it that schools are quick to recommend holding a kid back but not quick to implement effective remediation? In our state, it costs about $8000 a year to educate a reg-ed child in public school. How much Lindamood Bell or Orton-Gillingham instruction could a school buy with $8K? Like Mayleng said, holding him back but using the same teaching methods is a recipe for more frustration and failure. It appears they have $8K just sitting around since they are recommending retaining him. I suggest that they let your son go to 2nd grade and they invest that extra $8000 on a really effective phonemic awareness program instead (NOT Reading Recovery!!)

[Mayleng]

Good points Sharon especially about using the UNIT or other non verbal IQ tests.

[mrsb00]

Thank you for all the info Sharon! It is so hard to just jump in when there is so much information coming at you!

In regards to the CAPD, the school speech/language therapist did her evaluation and ruled out CAPD. She works with him on following instructions and vocabulary. I will have to look back and see what his scores are. I don't know that I even got a copy.

I'm also going to call the private psych. for her report on the evals that she did for my son. My guess is that she did do the WISC IQ test, where my son did fall into the low average side. When it comes to the non verbal, is that something that I ask the school to evaluate? I guess at this point I need some direction on what I should ask the school to do. Does the school test him for dyslexia or language processing disorders? At this point the school has done nothing other than the speech/language assessment. I pushed to have him tested and his teacher forewarned me that he wouldn't get referred for Sp Ed testing because of the discrepancy. Sure enough, it was denied.

I had never heard of the RTI, so thank you so much for bringing that to my attention. I'm fully aware that I have an uphill battle here with the school and also with mh DH, my son's father and his wife. Oh, vey!

Dana

[SharonF]

Dana--

School SLPs can be very nice people, but my experience is that MOST are not qualified to diagnose CAPD. You can ask the school to refer you to a reputable audiologist who specializes in CAPD or pay for the audiologist's eval yourself. Unless the school SLP did a battery of CAPD-specific tests in a soundproof room with specialized headphones, the SLP's testing may not mean anything.

You should have received a copy of all of the CAPD tests and scores. Look for acronyms like TAPS, SSW, and SCAN. An SLP can administer a Clinical Evaluation of Language Fundamentals (CELF-3) or even a Test of Auditory Processing Skills (TAPS), but the SCAN and SSW are best done by an audiologist who specializes in CAPD. I would look for an audiologist who specializes in both CAPD and ADHD.

Some school psychs are very willing to use IQ tests other than the WISC, while other school psychs fight it tooth and nail. We had to contact the state to convince our school that the UNIT is a valid IQ test. At that point, the school was grasping at straws trying to deny services to our son.

As with any IQ test, there has to be an understanding of what "intelligence" is--before a standard can be developed to measure it. The WISC tests (now on version IV) rely heavily on language processing, even in the nonverbal or "perceptual reasoning" subtests. The WISC tests also rely heavily on sequential thinking. Many people with language processing difficulties are not sequential thinkers. So a kid who thinks in pictures, has many random thoughts and is very creative, analytical thinker may have a lower score on the WISC than a kid who thinks in words, sequentially, and predictably.

An average to bright kid who scores lower than expected on the WISC may need additional IQ testing. As I mentioned earlier, for those kids, the lower WISC scores may indicate how they'll do in school without assistance. Textbooks and most teachers aim for kids who think in words, remember in words, and think sequentially. So the WISC mirrors how most information is taught in school. The UNIT uses no language, not even in the instructions.

Also--make sure they do a Test of Written Language (TOWL) to measure your son's written expression ability. The written expression portion of the Woodcock Johnson and/or WIAT is not in-depth enough to truly measure a person's written expression ability.

Schools are being dragged kicking and screaming to end the use of the stupid discrepancy formula. ALL of the independent research shows that the 15 or 30-point discrepancies are an absolutely useless way of determining which kids need specialized instruction. Even worse, kids usually have to fall well behind their peers to get an IEP as Specific Learning Disabled and by that time, it is often too late to ever fully get them caught up. Congress finally got that message in 2004 and changed the law--a little. But schools love the discrepancy formula because it is black/white and tends to underestimate the number of kids who need assistance. That saves them money.

The new IDEA does not eliminate discrepancy. Schools can still use it. BUT--schools can also use Response to Intervention. Or both. The new IDEA uses the term Response to Intervention when determining if a child has a specific learning disability, but otherwise is very vague. It says the intervention must be "scientific, research-based" but there's no further explanation. Federal regulations further defining the new aspects of the law are to be released later this year. Then states will further interpret those federal regs and exactly how RTI will be used in each state.

Until then, I'm guessing most schools will only use RTI to claim "we're doing some special things to help Johnny and he should be okay." Parents will need to push hard for RTI the way Congress intends for it to be used. If a child does not have a "significant discrepancy" between IQ and achievement, yet does not show an appropriate response to standard classroom intervention, it should be assumed that the child qualifies for an IEP as Specific Learning Disabled.

[mrsb00]

UPDATE!
I've registered my son for school this week-for second grade! I really felt in my gut that was the right thing to do. My DH didn't totally agree, but didn't give me any flack for it, but my son's father chewed my a new one. My son's tutor felt that he has made progress and that if his teacher keeps the communication open with her with weekly emails that things will be fine. He's slated to go 2 times a week for tutoring at 1.5 hr. session each.
I met with our psych. to have her go over the evals again with me so I could get a better understanding of what was done. Not sure I fully understand, but here is the breakdown of what was given on the WISC-IV test:

Verbal Comprehension Subtest
Similiarites-8
Vocabulary-9
Comprehension-8

Working Memory Subtest
Digit Span- 9
Letter-number sequencing-9

Perceptual Reasoning
Block Design-10
Picture Concepts-11
Matrix Reasoning-8

Processing Speed Subtest
Coding-9
Symbol Search-7

Composite
Verbal Comprehension, Score 91, Percentile Rank 27
Perceptual Reasoning, Score 98, Percentile Rank 45
Working Memory, Score 94, Percentile Rank 94
Processing Speed, Score 88, Percentile Rank 88

Full Scale IQ-90

Does this look familiar to anyone? There was also some scores from the WIAT-II and the ones that he scored low (under grade level) was Pseudoword Decoding and written expression.

All in all she suggested that I meet with the teacher the first week of school and communicate with him how we need to work together to make it the best year possible for Cole. That is sooo important; especially after last year! She also would not rule out the dyslexia and thought that we should pursue more testing on down the road as he is learning the written expression and language stuff at school. With him not having much exposure to it yet, it is hard to determine so far.

Now only a week and a half left until school starts!

Dana