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Post by SharonF on Apr 25, 2005 13:04:23 GMT -5
How do your inattentive-types cope with distractions?
My 13-year old, 8th grade daughter has an IEP meeting next week. We started talking last night about what's hard for her in school, what ways she learns best, etc. Most of it I know--but I want her to be able to verbalize it and understand her difficulties/strengths and advocate for herself. I see that as an ongoing process, not a one-time thing.
She told me that flourescent lights buzzing drive her crazy but no one else seems to hear it. She says when a teacher is wearing a bracelet and writes on an overhead projector, all her brain can think about is the "clink clink clink" as the bracelet hits the overhead. She said any movement by anyone anywhere in the room makes her brain stop thinking. She cannot concentrate when she reads unless she reads out loud. I knew she was distracted--but I guess I am a bit surprised by the severity of it. She is on 72 mg of Concerta, the highest dose allowed. She just saw the prescribing doc (pediatric neurologist) earlier this month.
She has 1:1 language therapy in a room with a copy machine and the SLP noted in writing that dd completely loses concentration and can't regain it (much more than most kids) if anyone even peeks their head in the door.
dd will be going to high school in the fall. The high school has offered to change her IEP to OHI. But what can we put on her IEP (next week or in the fall) to help her cope with distractions? It seems to be getting worse as time goes by, not better.
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Post by swmom on Apr 25, 2005 13:15:48 GMT -5
Is that something an OT can help with? Just a guess. I have the name of someone in town who was recommended if you find you need it. Let me know.
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Post by SharonF on Apr 25, 2005 13:34:04 GMT -5
Good thought. She's seen a private OT for fine motor problems, but not inattentive problems.
How do you know if it's ADHD-inattentive or if it's sensory integration? Or if it's yet another comorbid?
If it is SID, how do you squeeze OT into the schedule that already includes language therapy (at school), private counseling, team sports and drum lessons (her only joys in life), and waaaaaaaay too much homework?
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Post by Mayleng on Apr 25, 2005 13:42:44 GMT -5
That's a tough one Sharon. I know my son gets distracted by noises too (Dr. Tillery tested him and aside from TFM, he has Super Range hearing (way more sensitive than normal people). He hears what others cannot hear and it distracts him. I don't think at this point, that he is as bothered by it as your dd seems to be. Can earplugs or special head phones help? I know your dd probably does not want to use one and be different. To tell you the truth, the buzzing of florescent lights bothers me too.
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Post by brookesmom on Apr 25, 2005 15:18:55 GMT -5
My dd is in a 5th grade class of 35 kids. She has a really hard time handling the distractions. She notices pencil tapping, hallway noise, air blowing, you name it. She says it is really hard to stay on task. She does have an IEP and goes with the specialist 3x a week and does get tests read to her which has helped. I don't know what could go into the IEP other than preferential seating and the teacher helping to keep her on task when she is zoning. If there are other ideas out there I would love to bring them to dd's IEP meeting in May.
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Post by snorkeler on Apr 27, 2005 10:37:32 GMT -5
Hi Sharon,
I may be going in the wrong direction but would some help from the OT and the PT help with sensory integration therapy or strategies for coping with distractions?
Sometimes all the noises builds up in my sons head and he can no longer concentrate. Once at the Ice Rink on a class field trip the noise was too too much and he physically got sick, just threw up right there on the skates and all. As soon as we got out of the building has was better and when we got in the closed quiet car he was perfectly fine.
Snorkeler AKA Elastigirl
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Post by dmom32002 on Apr 27, 2005 19:55:37 GMT -5
I've had some cases that have this problem.
THey use a FM system for the student. Not sure how to explain, but this is something the speech therapist or the OT would know.
Its for CAP. Central Auditory Processing, I think.
donna
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Post by d on Apr 27, 2005 20:43:39 GMT -5
Sharon - I am *plagued* by this to this day. My 9 yo neurotypical whose attending skills if there was such a measurement would be off the charts. She has to bring me back on task continually and does it instinctively with me and her sis too.
I can't offer any suggestions for school but I can tell you that routines including good sleep habits make it somewhat better. I'm more cognizant of recognizing the distractions and can better deal with them - if that makes any sense. When my ADHD dd or I are off schedule we are *raging* distractible ADHDers. The distractability is always a factor but worse when we haven't been sleeping well. Also, we are both poor sleepers so that can feed into it - I make it an effort to manage our sleep issues as best I can.
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Post by SharonF on Apr 28, 2005 8:11:50 GMT -5
Thanks, everyone!
My daughter does have severe CAPD, especially Tolerance-Fading Memory and Integrational CAPD. The "Tolerance" means she has trouble tolerating background noise. So not only does she have ADHD-in that causes her to be distracted by movement, light and sounds, but she has CAPD that makes her even more intolerant of sounds that others can ignore.
It seems there are few workable accommodations, especially for a self-concious 13-year old: ear plugs, head phones, a three-sided cardboard screen to put on her desk for her to "hide" behind. She already struggles enough with the social implications of learning differently and would surely resist anything that makes her look different in high school.
One person at the Parent-Training and Information Center said we need to put on her IEP that her reg-ed teachers can't wear distracting jewelry like bracelets. Yeah, right!
To my understanding, FM devices are rarely used past elementary school. Teenagers flat out refuse to wear them. Also, she can "hear" the teacher just fine. But the meaning of what the teacher says often gets lost in her brain somewhere. An FM device sometimes helps younger kids with Decoding CAPD, but I don't know if it is beneficial for teenagers with TFM and Integrational CAPD. I can ask her SLP.
Several adult friends with ADHD (like you, d) tell me the only real solution is for her to make the best of it and keep developing her own compensating and coping methods. That seems to be the story of her life!
I hadn't thought about the role of sleep. Concerta does make it harder for her to sleep well. 3 mg of Melatonin is helping, but I don't think she sleeps soundly until late in the night/early in the morning...about the time the alarm goes off!
I'm still open to suggestions, however!
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Post by SharonF on Apr 28, 2005 8:46:53 GMT -5
I don't think I said that well. There are some suggestions like those I listed, but they don't seem realistic for a 13-year old girl who is very self-concious about her learning differences. I think the ear plugs, head phones, three-sided screen and other suggestions would create more emotional turmoil for a kid who's already struggling emotionally.
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Post by ohmama on Apr 28, 2005 11:39:53 GMT -5
Sharon, Does she have long hair? I've seen some earplugs used for swimming that become almost invisible once they are in the ear. She could put these in discretely and no one would be able to tell. They are comfortable too. I had to use these at night because of my husbands snoring.
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Post by SharonF on Apr 28, 2005 16:02:28 GMT -5
The problem with ear plugs is that she'd probably have to take them in and out frequently during class--depending on whether she is supposed to be listening or the class is supposed to be working quietly. They don't do many activites in class where everyone is quiet for long periods of time. Maybe taking big tests, but that's about it. High school uses block schedule with 90-minute classes.
I think she's just now realizing that everyone else is not driven nuts by the hum of flourescent lights, by pencils tapping, by steps/motion in the hallway, by the brightness of the classroom lights being turned on after a movie/overhead, by birds flying by the window, by a kid reaching into his bookbag when she's trying to listen to the teacher. She says her "brain turns off" whenever she's distracted. She didn't realize before what was happening--or that it's not happening to other kids.
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Post by laural840 on Apr 28, 2005 22:45:10 GMT -5
I think she's just now realizing that everyone else is not driven nuts by the hum of flourescent lights, by pencils tapping, by steps/motion in the hallway, by the brightness of the classroom lights being turned on after a movie/overhead, by birds flying by the window, by a kid reaching into his bookbag when she's trying to listen to the teacher. She says her "brain turns off" whenever she's distracted. She didn't realize before what was happening--or that it's not happening to other kids. It's almost 'funny' that you should mention flourescent lights ... I have ADHD, not sure about any issues with CAPD, however, I cannot stand FL lighting of ANY kind - even 'warm' bulbs cause problems for me. I think it may have something to do with the 'flicker' rate of the bulb too, but tell your dd she isn't 'crazy' - I can hear the bulb's HUM too!!!!!!!!!!! I had to replace my lighting in the house we bought b/c the light in the kitchen almost made me SICK! I am/was also HIGHLY distracted by external stimuli as a student. I would suggest she try sitting in the first or second row of classrooms. Getting 'class notes' if possible from the teacher (teachers outline, etc) Also, as a student I found that if I took notes during class that I was FORCED to pay closer attention to what was being taught. So I KNOW that 'reading aloud' helps her to follow along, but if she can 'write aloud' instead, she can still follow and pay attention (maybe??). You might see if she can learn some short-hand tricks for taking notes. That helped me A LOT in high school and college!
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Post by kc4braves on Apr 28, 2005 22:50:27 GMT -5
This is a very interesting topic...and disheartening to me. I came in here to search around the topics after having a heart breaking talk with my 8 yr old son. (Sometimes it just helps me to read some of your posts.) Anyway, our talk was nothing about this but.....he told me about two weeks ago after I picked him up from school that his stomach was hurting. He claimed that at that moment his sister spinning her bowling ball on her seat (at the bowling alley) was making him sick. He kept complaing until i had to make her stop. We talked about it and he said his stomach hurt at school too, especially when it got really noisy or when the teacher was yelling. He said he felt like throwing up. Of course, this was a very bad day for whatever reason. Evrything was bothering him. He couldn't bowl well because...you pick an excuse....someone was talking or moving or a car drove by outside or whatever. I really thought he was just whining trying to make life difficult. He doesn't usually complain at bowling about noises bothering him unlesss someone is talking to him or about him while he bowls. He does, however, quite frequently say that his sister singing or playing in the car bothers him. It's strange how HE makes so much noise and that doesn't bother him but no one else can make noise ever. He has never told me about feeling sick to his stomach because of noise or motion except that one day, but he does seem to get irritable, etc. with noise. We went bowling Wed. and they were mowing and weed-eating outside. He just couldn't get over that. Finally, he had them play music to drown it out. But, isn't that noise, too? I'm just not sure if he is playing us or if all this is part of some ADD syndrome or what? Does this sound familiar?
Kathy
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Post by laural840 on Apr 28, 2005 23:13:28 GMT -5
Kathy, I really don't know... but if you want to hear something TOTALLY strange and completely bizarre....
My husband DOES NOT have ADHD (I can completely attest to this - lol). BUT, a couple of years ago, he went back to school to get his Masters Degree. We used loan money to buy him a computer and set up an office for him in our basement where he could study, write papers, etc. away from kids and wife :-D) Well, a few weeks into his new 'setup' he started getting PHYSICALLY ILL (throwing up) every time he went to the basement to study (he participated in an online degree program through Univ. Cincinnatti).
At first I thought it was the flourescent lighting (since I have always had 'issues' with it). But after removing the bulbs, replacing lighting with lamps, etc, he was still throwing up (btw - he was taking STATISTICS at the time OMGOSH!!!).
Long story, short.... the refresh rate of his new computer screen was 60 mHz. Anything slower or faster, and he would have been just FINE, but at 60 mHz, it made him physically SICK!
We had to buy him a new monitor (cause the cheap monitor that came with his new system only had one setting at 60 mHz) and his problem was GONE!
Go with me on this (lol), he had to ask for an extension from his prof because the computer was making him SICK!!! LOL - he was so afraid that they would say 'you're looooooney' and refuse to give him an extension so he could finish his work!
Anyway, once we had the new monitor, the problems completely disappeared!
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Post by d on Apr 28, 2005 23:52:57 GMT -5
He claimed that at that moment his sister spinning her bowling ball on her seat (at the bowling alley) was making him sick. He kept complaing until i had to make her stop. I *cannot* sleep with any sort of ticking clock in my room. I can also hear the drip in the main bathroom down the hall that can make me insane when trying to fall asleep. During the evening whether I've had meds or not that day, I sometimes get insane with the level of our regular household noises (kids talking loudly, TV too loud, phone rings, doors slamming, etc.). It's like I reach my limit after enduring through all the noises & sounds of the day and just need everything to be low for a little while. It usually happens around 7:30-8:00 each night. A few times in business meetings, I was almost rude. I was concentrating so hard on contributing to and following the discussion while colleagues were having continuing private sidebars a few seats away from me. I could not filter them out, became further distracted by trying to give them polite hints and missing more and more critical developments before asking them more pointedly to be quiet. I've never become physically sick but man can certain noises set me off (e.g., buzz in flourescent lighting...).
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Post by kc4braves on Apr 29, 2005 1:07:35 GMT -5
I think alot of these distractions are normal in the average population to some degree. I just wonder if some of the ADHDers aren't experiencing the distractions to a greater degree. I have no concern that I could be ADHD but....ticking clocks bother me as do pencil tappers and I sometimes, especially THAT time of the month, get very overstimulated and want to scream. It has always annoyed me as a student to have anyone but the instructor talking if I really needed to hear what was said. I have said before that i don't know how kids today learn anything the way some classes are run. I just feel like all this on top of everything else for my child can get to be too much.
Kathy
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Post by Mayleng on Apr 29, 2005 6:40:24 GMT -5
kc, you might want to have your child check by an audiologist for CAPD or APD. He could have Tolerance Fading Memory. My ADHD/Inattentive son has TFM as well. The noise on the school bus makes him throw up. He was throwing up everyday coming home from school, and I had to drive him home everyday last year. This year seems alot better and he has only been sick coming off the bus once in a while. It is not motion sickness for him because he doesn't suffer from that. My older son suffers from motion sickness.
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Post by kc4braves on Apr 29, 2005 7:02:35 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies. Can you tell me what all the abbreviations stand for? Sorry but I'm lost. Kathy
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Post by SharonF on Apr 29, 2005 8:10:38 GMT -5
Laura-- I'm not surprised that something like the computer screen flickering would make a person sick. I'm just surprised that you figured out the cause!!! WOW!! Are you related to Sherlock Holmes? My daughter has always been prone to car sickness. She started losing it in the car before she was a year old, so I know it's something she was born with. I think it's just part of her whole vestibular system: hyper sensitive to sensory aspects of the environment/can't pay attention to the words. She already has preferential seating. We're looking forward to high school where kids are more likely to sit in rows. The "pod" arrangements grouping four desks together is the worst for a kid who's easily distracted. Good suggestion about writing by hand to help her focus. That always helps me. However, dd has extreme pain when she writes. OT could not help her. Neurologist did some painful tests and determined it is brain-based, meaning the brain is sending conflicting signals to the arm and hand muscles. She uses a laptop whenever possible. Her SLP has worked with her a great deal on note-taking, especially determining key points and not getting sidetracked by details. But the SLP notes she is so easily distracted by her sensory input that it's really hard! Chicken/egg/chicken... Kathy-- I think what you describe is VERY common in ADHDers. Their own motion and noise helps them concentrate and focus. Anyone else's motion or noise drives them crazy, to the point of making them feel sick. sick* My daughter studies in very low light with fairly loud music. She says that's how she concentrates best. But if she's listening to rock CDs and her brother is practicing his oboe in another room, it drives her crazy! Part of it is just being siblings. I think part of it is just the wacky nature of ADHD. Thanks for the ideas and suggestions! Keep 'em coming!
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Post by Mayleng on Apr 29, 2005 8:55:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies. Can you tell me what all the abbreviations stand for? Sorry but I'm lost. Kathy Which abbreviations are you talking about? TFM - Tolerance Fading Memory (I actually have thread on this under the comorbids board) APD - Auditory Processing Disorder CAPD - Central Auditory Processing Disorder. Any others?
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Post by brazos on Apr 29, 2005 9:30:45 GMT -5
I just hate that grouping situation in schools today. My middle kid has a hard time because they always stick him next to an ADHD kid and he tends to listen. Finally I told the science teacher he wanted to be by himself, he is much happier there. They only have tables in Science and somehow it is much worse than other classes.
I don't know how they expect ADHD kids not to talk when regular kids do in that enviroment.
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Post by kc4braves on Apr 29, 2005 10:36:02 GMT -5
Thanks for spelling out the abbreviations. I guess I could have looked around more and figured it out. Sorry.
Now that i hear it mentioned, I remember that both my kids have had trouble with motion sickness. I used to think when we lived in Guam that my son just didn't want to go wherever we were headed because he always complained that his stomach hurt but he never threw up. We always wondered how our child could hate to travel when we would be gone all the time if it were just us. After we left Guam when he was 5 and moved to CA, he did start throwing up and so did DD. We couldn't go into LA without fresh clothes for them and a pan. Anywhere near the mountains were the same. We figured out that all the cars zooming by on both sides and the terrible roads in LA were to blame. I never realized that ADHD could play into that. Interesting. Thanks for the info.
KAthy
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