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SharonF
Mar 9, 2005 17:02:06 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 9, 2005 17:02:06 GMT -5
SharonF, I probably should ask this question at schwab, but since you are online, I thought I will check it out with you first.
I just got a call from ds's 3rd grade teacher. He wanted to update me on my son's report card. Basically, it is not bad news but I am still concerned.
He said that my son's Reading scores have dropped this marking session because the work expected from them are much harder. He went from a B to a C. However, the problem is not that he does not know the answers, alot of it is careless mistakes (typical of ADHDers), and also the written part ie. answering in sentences, and infering certain paragraphs etc, was what brought down the score. I know this is my son's weakness - written expression. It has improved but still needs work.
All his other scores Math, Science and Social Studies, are Bs.
He tells me that if all the tests were done verbally, my son would be getting A's on everything because he knows the answers. The fact of the matter is, he has trouble putting what is in his mind on paper. He has high comprehension, but his TFM interferes too, in his ability to answer questions, especially multistep questions.
Here is my question. Do you think V/V would help? and is 9 too young to take advantage of it. We don't have a Lindamood Bell clinic here, so I would either have to do it myself (not sure I am capable), or find a nearby clinic and do it over the summer. However, how much time would be needed and how much would it cost?
Or what else can I do at home to help him?
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SharonF
Mar 9, 2005 17:06:29 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 9, 2005 17:06:29 GMT -5
Sharon, I just read your explanation of how V/V is done, and don't think that is my son's problem. He can visualise and verbalize, he just cannot write it down.
I guess what I am asking is, if there is a program to help remediate written expression?
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SharonF
Mar 10, 2005 10:53:21 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 10, 2005 10:53:21 GMT -5
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SharonF
Mar 10, 2005 11:29:31 GMT -5
Post by SharonF on Mar 10, 2005 11:29:31 GMT -5
Hi Mayleng--
As you saw, I responded last night on Schwab. For those who didn't check the Schwablearning board, Mel Levine has said that written expression is the hardest to teach/learn because it involves the using a large number of cognitive and physical functions at once.
I am going to guess that working memory is part of the problem. Your son can SAY what he knows--but has trouble holding all of it in working memory to write it.
"Fading memory" of TFM CAPD is often used to refer to auditory memory. But it seems that kids with weak auditory memory often also have weak memory for remembering the thoughts, in sequential order, that they are trying to write into words and sentences and paragraphs.
V/V might help in that it seems to strengthen the ability to put thoughts in sequential order and say them out loud. However, it's not a sure thing that they would be able to convert that to written expression ability--especially at Lindamood Bell prices.
Graphic organizers and assistive technology can help with more involved writing. But I don't know anything that really helps with short-answer questions on tests. My kids (both TFM CAPDers) bomb tests. They have the most trouble if the test question is written slightly different than the way they studied it. (They study: "The capital of North Carolina is Raleigh." They get to the test and it says "Raleigh is the capital of ___________" and their brain freezes. a*g )
My 8th grade daughter still has oral retesting as an IEP accommodation. My 9th grade son just fails all of his cumulative tests, including midterms and finals. His case manager and I are still working on possible solutions. He is SLD in reading comp and written expression.
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SharonF
Mar 10, 2005 13:33:10 GMT -5
Post by VaMom on Mar 10, 2005 13:33:10 GMT -5
He tells me that if all the tests were done verbally, my son would be getting A's on everything because he knows the answers. The fact of the matter is, he has trouble putting what is in his mind on paper. >>
Mayleng, doesn't he have an IEP? If so, then the opportunity to respond orally should be placed into it immediately. Call a meeting of the team and do so. It is crazy for your ds to making grades below what he can actually do because of this LD. This kind of thing is exactly what IEPs are for -- offering the child the particular support HE needs to achieve his max. potential.
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SharonF
Mar 10, 2005 14:38:37 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 10, 2005 14:38:37 GMT -5
He tells me that if all the tests were done verbally, my son would be getting A's on everything because he knows the answers. The fact of the matter is, he has trouble putting what is in his mind on paper. >> Mayleng, doesn't he have an IEP? If so, then the opportunity to respond orally should be placed into it immediately. Call a meeting of the team and do so. It is crazy for your ds to making grades below what he can actually do because of this LD. This kind of thing is exactly what IEPs are for -- offering the child the particular support HE needs to achieve his max. potential. VAmom, he does have an IEP. We are going to discuss what accomodations are necessary in April. I am not ready to give up on remediating or at least help him compensate by letting him do it all verbally or getting him a scribe yet. But at some point, if I see it is causing him to fail, I will put those accomodations in. Right now he is only in 3rd grade and they are just starting to learn to write more and the demands have increased since our days in school. The teacher was bemoaning that they are rushing the kids too much too soon, and not giving them time to develop these days. The grades don't matter as much to me yet (unless it is a D or F) if he is learning and improving and I can see he is learning. So I have to figure out what I want to do in terms of remediating him. He does work on written expression in RS room but he is with 3 other kids, and my guess is that the other kids are worse off than he is, so I don't know how much help he is actually getting while he is there and I am not very impressed with his current RS teacher anyway. So I am going to "fix" it myself with outside help rather than depend on the school. The school did not teach him to read, his tutor and I did. Also if I make it so he does not have to write his answers, he will then take it that he does not have to try. It is too early and he is too young for me to give up on remediating him. If you know what I mean.
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SharonF
Mar 17, 2005 14:27:21 GMT -5
Post by SharonF on Mar 17, 2005 14:27:21 GMT -5
Mayleng--
Does your son have difficulty with ALL types of writing? (For example, a journal entry about what he did over the weekend, making up a fairy tale or fiction story, a research-type paper, an essay question on a test, a letter to a friend or grandparent...)
Just pondering here. Some people can't write well because they can't organize and sequence the thoughts in their mind. For others, they can't write answers to essay questions because they can't recall learned knowledge. Others know what they want to say but get sidetracked by worries about poor mechanics (spelling, sentence structure, grammar, punctuation.)
Obviously, the appropriate remediation for each writing difficulty listed above would be different. If your son is having problems with ALL types of writing, but is able to do EVERYTHING orally, he may have one or two types of writing difficulties that have now morphed into complete writing anxiety.
I think a good Resource teacher would figure out where his writing process is breaking down and what types of writing are hardest for him. Then develop strategies using his strengths to help him overcome those difficulties and any writing anxiety.
Just a thought...
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SharonF
Mar 17, 2005 15:40:50 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 17, 2005 15:40:50 GMT -5
Mayleng-- Does your son have difficulty with ALL types of writing? (For example, a journal entry about what he did over the weekend, making up a fairy tale or fiction story, a research-type paper, an essay question on a test, a letter to a friend or grandparent...) Just pondering here. Some people can't write well because they can't organize and sequence the thoughts in their mind. For others, they can't write answers to essay questions because they can't recall learned knowledge. Others know what they want to say but get sidetracked by worries about poor mechanics (spelling, sentence structure, grammar, punctuation.) Obviously, the appropriate remediation for each writing difficulty listed above would be different. If your son is having problems with ALL types of writing, but is able to do EVERYTHING orally, he may have one or two types of writing difficulties that have now morphed into complete writing anxiety. I think a good Resource teacher would figure out where his writing process is breaking down and what types of writing are hardest for him. Then develop strategies using his strengths to help him overcome those difficulties and any writing anxiety. Just a thought... Sharon, Bear in mind he is in 3rd grade so spelling is a minor issue (he can spell it phonetically and I think in time he will get it with more practice and more reading - he gets confused with words their and there). Sometimes when he is writing a sentence he misses out words (which he thinks he had written down, so when he re-reads it, he will still read the missing word like it is there). When he copies words, sometimes he will miss some letters or reverse ie. Leprechaun, he copied it as Leperchaun. Punctuation is a problem too, he forgets capital letters etc. He has problems answering questions, because he cannot remember the entire story and being ADHD does not make the effort to re-read the paragraphs. And he answers with very short answers - he hates writing so he keeps it to a minimum. He was supposed to write a story using their spelling words yesterday. It was a difficult thing to do because he had to use certain words (in bold)and then make up a story. This is what he wrote and I had him correct the spelling mistakes. Medieval the Leperchaun (sp) Once apon a time there was a Chins (supposed to be Chinese) leperchaun named Medieval. He didn't like Irland (supposed to be Ireland) and England. So he chopped them in haf (supposed to be half). This is how he chopped them in haf (supposed to be half). He did the matrix. Medieval is going on another advtur (adventure). Come on lets go. He is bringing two other friends Mike and Matt. Now lets start the advture (adventure). Our first stop is at count duckula's castle. Be careful there are booby traps. Now we are in the castle. That pictre (picture) is grinning. Hi! count Duckula. Hi. Do you where the exit is (missed out the word know). (did not use question mark) Over their. Thanks. Now we are out of the castles. Look a monster said Matt. Where? Medieval asked. I'm just joking. Matt smiled What is that tapping? Just me Mike said. Im (missed the inverted comma here) fixing my tap dance shoes. And this is where he stopped. There were alot more words he had to use like cared, Monarchy, saving, dropped etc. I had to sit down and help him re write the story and show him how to do a beginning, middle and end. I think having to use certain words made it harder for him, especially trying to organize his thoughts. What do you think? Is this Ok for 3rd grade. I know we have to work on it and since this is the time they learn how to write long essays and stories, I think I can work with him but have to show him how it is done. Got to go pick up older son from school now. Will check back later.
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SharonF
Mar 17, 2005 16:35:22 GMT -5
Post by SharonF on Mar 17, 2005 16:35:22 GMT -5
Golly, I'd forgotten what a bare it is too right a story using the weakly spelling words!! (Glad my teenagers are past that stage! ) I think your son did a very good job. Honestly, I think that writing a coherent story using ten or fifteen spelling words is a really rotten way to teach writing. It's very hard to organize a paper with a strong beginning, middle and end--when you have to keep interrupting the flow of the content to use words that don't really fit. So the flow and organization are sacrificed just to put certain words in. That doesn't teach the kid anything about good written expression. Your son is clearly creative. His thoughts are vivid and his story line is exciting. Then he has to interrupt his adventure at Count Duckula's castle so Matt can hear the tapping and Mike can fix his tap dance shoes. (Still creative, just hard to put those words into your son's cool story.) Many kids have trouble with homophones, punctuation, and rely on phonetic spelling. Many kids (and adults) leave out little words as they write. I assume that mechanics and leaving words out are problems for him regardless of the type of writing. The more "brain power" the writing requires, the more mistakes you'll likely see in mechanics. I think you did the right thing by helping him to plan the story and focus on organization. Sometimes, it helps to write an outline to refer back to. For kids who don't process well in language, you can sketch a few characters and have a more "visual" outline for them to work from. Don't worry about any mechanics as they focus on the flow and organization of the story. Get them used to writing ideas first. After they have a cohesive story, then go back and work on mechanics. That process of planning, writing, editing and rewriting can be long and tedious for any kid, but especially one with ADHD. These weekly "spelling word stories" might be a place for a modified assignment. Maybe the teacher will agree to grade this type of writing assignment based on creativity and organization, and not count off for mechanics. However, he would still be graded on mechanics on other writing assignments that are less involved. Does that make sense?
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SharonF
Mar 17, 2005 16:47:19 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 17, 2005 16:47:19 GMT -5
That process of planning, writing, editing and rewriting can be long and tedious for any kid, but especially one with ADHD. These weekly "spelling word stories" might be a place for a modified assignment. Maybe the teacher will agree to grade this type of writing assignment based on creativity and organization, and not count off for mechanics. However, he would still be graded on mechanics on other writing assignments that are less involved. Does that make sense? He does have a vivid imagination. The funny thing is he wanted to draw pictures to go with the story, maybe what i can do is let him draw pictures of his story first, and then let him "tell" the story in writing. If that is how his mind works. What do you think? Yes, your explanation makes sense, we are expecting him to do many things using this process. Honestly, this is the first time they did this. Mostly they just get them to spell the words but in sentences dictated to them, which he does very well. I am not concerned about how they grade this work, as long as I know my son is learning the mechanics and can organize his thoughts. Looks like I will be doing the teaching as I don't think the school really knows how to teach these kids, as nice and good as his current teacher is. My son is just not the norm. Another thing I have to work on is helping him answer questions on stories he has read. Sometimes he doesn't understand certain phrases and words, so he doesn't know what is implied. I guess all this will come in time when he has reads more and more. Thanks for letting me bounce things off you. It helps.
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 9:15:39 GMT -5
Post by SharonF on Mar 18, 2005 9:15:39 GMT -5
Hi Mayleng--
If he's got a vivid imagination, thinks predominately in pictures, but has trouble putting those pictures in words--I would definitely start by letting him draw some pictures as his outline. This will help him with interhemispheric transfer--converting his multi-sensory thinking (right brain) into language (left brain.) However, don't let him get so wrapped up in drawing the pictures that he doesn't have any energy or interest in writing the story.
Good creative writing involves two VERY different skills at the same time: creativity and following conventional rules. With kids who have trouble doing both at the same time, it's best to separate the two tasks.
I would focus first on the creative story line, the flow of the story line, and the organization of it. Don't worry about spelling or mechanics yet.
Write it, then take a break. LATER, go back to edit and revise for mechanics and conventions. This is torture for many kids. Kids who are highly creative or have short attention spans are especially frustrated by this step. They really don't care how to spell the words, where the commas go, why certain words are capitalized. That's why modified assignments may be best for these kids for creative writing. It may be too much to expect all aspects of writing to develop at the same pace.
Sounds like TFM CAPD. It also sounds just like my daughter. That ability to "read" but not understand certain phrases and words, or even realize that he did not understand what he just read, is pretty common in kids with higher-order language processing difficulties. Making the re-read is rarely effective. Making them read more slowly doesn't work. Looking up words int he dictionary usually interrupts the comprehension process and bogs everything down. Even highlighting key words and phrases can be a waste of time--because those words still aren't conveying enough meaning.
I would caution you against hoping that "this will come in time as he reads more and more." Just the opposite was true for our daughter. She got so used to "reading" without understanding that she didn't realize how much she was missing. Nor did her teachers. When she failed the state reading test, all they could say was "She's not trying hard enough."
The ONLY thing that got her to turn the words and phrases on the page into meaning for her was Lindamood Bell's Visualizing/Verbalizing.
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 9:43:12 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 18, 2005 9:43:12 GMT -5
Hi Mayleng-- Sounds like TFM CAPD. It also sounds just like my daughter. That ability to "read" but not understand certain phrases and words, or even realize that he did not understand what he just read, is pretty common in kids with higher-order language processing difficulties. Making the re-read is rarely effective. Making them read more slowly doesn't work. Looking up words int he dictionary usually interrupts the comprehension process and bogs everything down. Even highlighting key words and phrases can be a waste of time--because those words still aren't conveying enough meaning. I would caution you against hoping that "this will come in time as he reads more and more." Just the opposite was true for our daughter. She got so used to "reading" without understanding that she didn't realize how much she was missing. Nor did her teachers. When she failed the state reading test, all they could say was "She's not trying hard enough." The ONLY thing that got her to turn the words and phrases on the page into meaning for her was Lindamood Bell's Visualizing/Verbalizing. I know, I was hoping that the TFM would not impact too much. But I understand the caution. It was at the back of my mind. I thought about V/V for him . Unfortunately, there isn't a LMB clinic anywhere around here. At some point, I might have to either get the program myself, and teach him OR find somewhere to go in summer to have it done. He is hanging in there. I saw the test papers, and he missed one question under the comprehension part, and another on gramma and one other one. Just 3 wrong answers and that brought his grade down to a C. One was he had to find the base word for filling, the multiple choice answer was fill, fling and something else. He chose fling. I asked him why, and the said he thought he saw the word as flinging, not filling. He does misread words that are close to each other and I think it is due to his ADD when he reads fast and does not bother to check. He had his eyes checked and had some form of vision therapy (color therapy) which didn't do anything for him. I don't really trust the eye doctor. How hard is it to teach the V/V program? I know you attended the workshop, so you have some idea. And since he is 9 yrs old, is it too soon ie. if we start now will there be a time later on we have to do it again as the grades get higher. Or is the technic taught and they carry that through with them through all grades. How many weeks at the clinic is necessary? Thanks for the input. Guess what? Natalie is coming over to my house for lunch today.
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 10:30:06 GMT -5
Post by SharonF on Mar 18, 2005 10:30:06 GMT -5
Could be ADHD-inattentive. It also could be language processing--that words are generally "blobs" to him. He may be great at distinguishing between two similar shades of red or two different models of pickup trucks, but have great difficulty distinguishing between "filing" and "fling." That's often part of the complexities of CAPD.
Many people with language processing difficulties have great trouble with root words. They don't immediately recognize that "file" and "filing" have more in common than do "fling" and "filing." It's because they are SEEING the words, not truly READING the words for meaning.
That's just how their brains are wired. It takes a lot of time, effort and repetition to help them improve their language processing abilities. It's probably not a visual processing difficulty--although it's good you had that checked. Given that he has TFM CAPD and ADHD, I would guess that it's a language processing difficulty. Most teachers assume that, by 3rd grade, kids are reading the words, not just seeing them. That is not always the case.
9 is a great age for V/V. It is not hard to learn the V/V process. However, the key to V/V's success is not just that it is a quality program, but the intensity of it. You have to make time every day to work on it. The more you hours you work on it, the more likely it will "stick" and become part of the child.
But how many hours of V/V does it take? That truly depends on each child. We were lucky that my daughter made such huge gains in 19 hours. Many kids need 100 or even 200 hours. I'm glad that I know the V/V process and can remind her to use it. Sometimes she still tries to take the easy way out and not read for meaning. But that usually only happens when she's really tired or burned out. V/V made a huge difference for her.
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 11:25:53 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 18, 2005 11:25:53 GMT -5
So, do you think I could do it with my son?
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 14:07:42 GMT -5
Post by SharonF on Mar 18, 2005 14:07:42 GMT -5
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 14:31:04 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 18, 2005 14:31:04 GMT -5
Sharon, thank you for all the info. I think it is so nice of you to invite a schwabbie to stay with you for two weeks. And thankyou for the offer to stay with you. I would love to take you up on the offer but my cousin from Singapore will be visiting me at that time, so the timing is not good. However, I might take you up on the offer the next time they have their training session, provided I can get someone to watch the kids.
I see they have the videos
Do you think this is worth buying to teach me how to teach my son? It costs about $300.00. Do you think it is a worth while investment if I cannot attend the training sessions. The Kit is actually not too expensive for $100.00 or are the CD-roms better or do I need both?
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 15:17:50 GMT -5
Post by SharonF on Mar 18, 2005 15:17:50 GMT -5
I remember the Jake video. It's pretty funny. Jake is not a natural at V/V. He's in his early teenaged years and he's trying to look cool while he goes through the steps. I don't think he's an actor. I think he really is a kid with reading comprehension problems. But by the end, he really has the hang of it.
I don't know what it's like to learn V/V or any other LMB method through videos only. I've attended the workshops for V/V and OC9 and seen my daughter's successes in both from working with an experienced LMB clinician.
The good thing about the workshops is that there are about 25 or 30 people there. Most are teachers. There are a few parents. After the leader teaches the first step and you watch a video showing the first step being done with a child, you have to practice that step with another person who's attending the workshop. Then with someone else. Then with someone else. Then the leader shows a video and teaches about the next step. Then everyone gets to practice it.
It's the practice with others that made it really click for me. It really helped to be the "student" and then the "teacher" through each of the steps. It's harder for both the "student" and the "teacher" than you might think.
However, if the workshops are not logistically or financially possible for you, the videos would probably be the next best thing. Just reading the V/V manual may not be enough to get a feel for the way the method works.
I don't know what's on the CD Roms. I did not buy the entire kit. The Gander Publishing books for V/V were really good for elementary-aged students but were below my daughter's reading level. I made my own word cards and colored squares. I got the V/V Manual as part of the fee for attending the workshop.
Does that help?
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 15:21:31 GMT -5
Post by swmom on Mar 18, 2005 15:21:31 GMT -5
Mayleng -
I bought the V/V stuff last year from Gander Publishing and did it with my daughter. It's not hard. I thought it was kind of fun actually. I did not attend a workshop and that might have enhanced our experience with it but I think you can definitely do it successfully on your own. I think it did help my daughter.
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 16:04:16 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 18, 2005 16:04:16 GMT -5
Thanks Sharon and swmom.
I guess, the thing would be to get the Kit, and read the manual to see how difficult it is to teach it. At worse case, I would get the tapes.
So am I to understand that you teach this technic to them, and they learn to use it and it can be applied to all their reading/comprehension work until the higher grades as well.
I hope there is enough time in the day to do all these. I also bought the Books from EPS that Kell recommended on writing by Diana Hanbury King.
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 16:12:09 GMT -5
Post by SharonF on Mar 18, 2005 16:12:09 GMT -5
Yes. The goal is comprehension--regardless of grade level or type of reading material. In fact, when my daughter learned V/V, they only used expository history and science texts, no narrative text.
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SharonF
Mar 18, 2005 16:16:30 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Mar 18, 2005 16:16:30 GMT -5
Thanks Sharon. I think I have to figure out a time to teach him this. This summer is going to be a busy time for us - the poor kid. If I do an hour every day for as many days as it takes, would it be intense enough. I know they probably do more hours at LMB but since we are doing it at home, we don't have the pressures of trying to squeeze it in for a certain time period and cost would not be a factor.
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SharonF
Oct 9, 2005 15:32:52 GMT -5
Post by Mary7777 on Oct 9, 2005 15:32:52 GMT -5
Hey Sharon and Mayleng. I was re-reading the board scanning for information for written expression problems. Mayleng, my son sounds so much like yours although it sounds like my son's oral expression is much worse than your son. It's funny as far as life the oral expression is the biggest problem, but it hasn't shown up too much at school yet. However I am starting to see here at the beginning of second grade the HUGE gap between what other children can do in writing and what my son can do. His biggest problem is organizing his thoughts to express himself -- both orally and in writing. He has very significant trouble finding the word he wants to say (needless to say the problem is compounded a million times when he goes to write). He also has a huge problem with handwriting. He can't seem to remember to leave enough spaces between words and it's just generally a mess. He doesn't have vision problems. I'm doing handwriting without tears with him at home now but it's slow going. I bought King's book on Writing Skills but it's sitting here unused because we just don't have time to do it between homework and daily reading. I guess I'm just wondering what you'd recommend to help him (of course I guess I actually have to do it don't I! . #1 he's got to learn to speak more fluently but I know next year the writing thing is going to bite us too. Do you feel the Writing Skills book helped? We did 6 weeks of Seeing Stars and two weeks of V/V this summer. We're going back at Christmas to do two more weeks of Seeing Stars with an emphasis on spelling (I think we licked the reading part!) and this summer I'm hoping to do 8 full weeks of V/V (altho I'm wondering if he's going to need some On Cloud Nine). Just wondering what you would recommend for a second grader with this problem and how your son is doing six months later. thanks, mary
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SharonF
Oct 9, 2005 16:38:47 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Oct 9, 2005 16:38:47 GMT -5
Hi Mary,
My son does have problems with organizing his thoughts and this was confirmed by his Neuropscyhologist who tested him again a few months back. I did work with him over the summer 1 hour a day (1 chapter a day) on the book by Diana Hanbury King. I did see improvements. He is in 4th grade this year, and they have lots and lots of writing because in NY State they have to take the ELAs (English Language Arts) this year. He is getting alot of practice and help in Resource Room and his General Ed room as well. In fact, his RS teacher comes into his Gen Ed room to help all the kids (non Sped as well).
I have seen an improvement, in fact, he recently brought back an essay he wrote where he got a A+ for spelling and B- for writing and his teacher is a tough grader.
My son also has problems telling stories verbally because he tends to go round and round.
What i liked about the "Writing Skills" book is that it breaks down the process, and builds on it. For eg. he knows that in basic paragraph there has to be a Topic, followed by a topic sentence, with 3 supporting sentences and a concluding sentence. It is not overwhelming. He is taught to make lists ie. Sports - baseball, football, hockey etc. And then to use the list to make a basic paragraph. Once he learnt the basic paragraph, then you add on. etc. It is a skill he has learnt and will get better with practice. I have no doubts that he would have been floundering in 4th grade this year if we had not worked on it over the summer because the writing level is higher and the workload is alot more in terms of writing assignments.
Your son needs lots of practice and to be shown how to organize by using lists, identify only the key points and not go around in circles.
I hope this helps.
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SharonF
Oct 10, 2005 15:20:50 GMT -5
Post by Mary7777 on Oct 10, 2005 15:20:50 GMT -5
Thanks. My son has HUGE problems with handwriting itself but it scares me that all he knows about spelling and sentences seems to go right out the window when he writes. I never realized how complex writing is until I watched him struggle to do it. Even when he writes a one sentence answer he is likely to leave out a word and spell way below his ability. Do you mind me asking what your son's writing was like in 2nd grade? I guess I'm looking for hope here -- this seems like a problem we're not going to be able to overcome right now. He doesn't have accomodations at school right now (it's private and they're not real open to it) and I was praying not to have to ask for any. I'll definitely get him typing soon but I don't want to yet because he needs to learn to write in print and cursive (coming later this year -- cringe!). I really think the root of the problem is that organizing the thoughts thing. His speech is very scattered, halting and immature too. thanks again, mary
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SharonF
Oct 10, 2005 16:57:28 GMT -5
Post by Mayleng on Oct 10, 2005 16:57:28 GMT -5
My son had terrible writing in first and 2nd grade even 3rd. He used to tell me his hands would hurt. We did Handwriting without tears in 2nd grade. He would still not leave spaces, he would leave out words etc. 3rd grade was a slight improvement. I had taught him cursive in 2nd grade (also using Handwriting without tears - cursive) to help him stop reversing his bs and ds. But his school would not let him use it then. I had to reteach him again this summer because they are supposed to use cursive for everything in 4th grade. So now he struggles with it but is doing better. The strangest thing happened, while he struggled with cursive (remembering how to write each alphabet and join them), his printing got alot better and looks really good. He would still leave out words, so I have to teach him to do a rough copy, then a good copy, and to re-read the good copy to check for mistakes and words that were left out. They all need to be taught to check for mistakes (all kids LDs or not).
So, there is hope. His RS teacher tells me he is not the same kid she evaluated 3 yrs ago.
I got him a computer so he will get comfortable with typing and using it, in case it gets too much in middle school and he needed Assistive Technology to keep up.
I do know that reading with your child (either he reads or you or together) is helpful in terms of giving them examples and experiences to write about. It exposes them to words and how to use them. The more my son reads and experience, the more he has to write about. I guess, you have to teach your son strategies.
Keep him reading, practicing writing, and teaching him how to write paragraphs, making up lists etc. This summer when you have more time, work on the Diana Hanbury King Writing Skills book. It really makes it very simple.
Oh, before I forget, sometimes it is easier if you let him dictate to you, you write it down, and then he copies what you have written. This way it breaks it down for him, and he is not overwhelmed.
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SharonF
Oct 12, 2005 20:48:02 GMT -5
Post by Mary7777 on Oct 12, 2005 20:48:02 GMT -5
Thanks Mayleng. It just helps to know someone else has been there and is doing so well! mary
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