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Post by willoweezie on Apr 23, 2004 15:01:29 GMT -5
Oh help... They sent someone from the cluster office along with the VP of the Center and are "recommending the center", based on the fact that Sage cannot cope with the school setting she is in, is unavailable for learning, is crying out for help, is a safety concern to herself and others, is not achieving academically, they cannot provide her what she needs, she cannot learn social or coping skills in this setting. I told them I could not give them an answer today, the evil woman said (oh so magnanimously) that I could have the weekend to think about it, then she would make a "formal recommendation" if I couldn't decide. Alot more went on but that is the outcome anyway, I am too upset to get into all of it, and they totally blew off the learning disability (she's not eligible for services based on her achievement v. aptitude ratio... i'm not sure those were the words they used but you know what I mean) and she might have "minor sensory issues" (no biggie, can't be the cause of her emotional problems) They want to move her right away. Why did I waste my time with the teacher & resource yesterday? Do you think that point sheet will even be in her backpack? I doubt it. Ugh, I just want to take her out of school altogether. Just what I wanted to spend Sage's birthday agonizing over. I'm at the end of my rope! Oh, and the class they would put her in is the all boy one.... (it's a 1-2 class, she's SO bright...)  |
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Post by VaMom on Apr 23, 2004 15:47:56 GMT -5
Willow,
Let them go ahead and make their formal recommendation then. That's going to start a process that could well take till the end of the school year to complete. Tell them you will exhaust every single channel they have.
You need to call your school board member, your supervisor and even your state officials, and tell them that the school is trying to change the placement of your first grade daughter against the will of her mother AND against the recommendation of her doctor.
I know you feel bullied, and indeed you are being bullied, but you DON'T have to roll over for them. SHE IS NOT THEIRS, SHE IS YOURS.
I would also recommend going by the Parent Resource Center (you can find address from school system web site) and reading up on advocacy and see if there is any one else who can help you.
I'm so sorry you are getting the shaft.
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Post by Mayleng on Apr 23, 2004 17:33:56 GMT -5
Willow, I think you really need to visit the and post your questions about whether the school has the right to put your child in a "center" without your agreement. Did they do a full academic and cognitive and behavoral evaluation? If they did, post the scores there and some of the moms will tell you what it means, and if she has an LD. It is not enough to say there is not big discrepancy between achievement and verbal IQ. Post the type of eval they did. To find an LD, they have to look into the academic evaluation as well as well as classroom performance. |
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Post by willoweezie on Apr 23, 2004 18:47:55 GMT -5
Wanna know something sad....
Sage has had two meltdowns since we came home, one since she accidentally dropped some fruit on the floor. She told me that I seem "madder" than usual which I can only attribute to her looking at my face and seeing "something different" because I've been crying. I have tried not to act any different towards her or in her presence. She told me that she got 4 smiley faces on her point sheet and only one frowny fact (she coudln't remember specifically what rules they were for)...
and no, the point sheet didn't come home...
I am feeling really bitter right about now, despite all the blather at the IEP that they only want to do what's in her best interest and she's clearly not able to succeed where she is right now. The freakin ED cluster woman kept saying how it was a "short term" placement in order to help her in the long run.
I'm so disgusted at this moment, I feel so betrayed by the teacher and resource who just sat there and didn't say anything about the things we were going to try as of yesterday...
wah again!
Willow
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Post by dfp on Apr 24, 2004 12:34:34 GMT -5
Willow, I just posted the following over on the Medications section. What they're doing to you is AGAINST THE LAW!!!!! VAmom clearly knows what she's telling you-- they cannot move your daughter into a restrictive environment without your express approval. Do not sign anything they give you!!! Please know that the law will support you here. Sometimes it's not a big consolation since you have to face those meanies. Here's what I posted: ----------------------------------------- Willow, I'm going over to the Education section to check in on what's going on w/ you guys over there, but in case you're checking here too you must know that they CANNOT force you to put Sage in that classroom/school. They say that thing about being 'committed to providing the least restrictive environment' because it's the LAW-- they're not just trying to be nice. In fact, I'm rather certain that they are NOT nice! ;D Anyway, only with your approval can they send her to that school. They WILL try to strongarm you, and so you must NOT go to any IEP meetings without backup. Bring a friend, your psych., a local advocate (many provide services for free to those who qualify), whoever. You can determine who's on your team, the school doesn't get to choose. If they show up with an IEP that they want you to sign that mentions the school, DO NOT SIGN IT. Say you need some time to think about it and get home and call an advocate. www.wrightslaw.com is a good site, but your state may also have a disability law center that can also help you. It may help to read the text of IDEA as well. It's not so hard to read once you find the section you're looking for. Also, here's a link to a short document that describes another family's experience with a school trying to place their child in a self-contained classroom: tinyurl.com/yrljyI'm going to repost this over in the education section now. I would hate for your family to get strongarmed into the wrong situation. Take care, DFP |
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Post by LurkNoMore on Apr 24, 2004 17:32:18 GMT -5
{{{{Willow}}}} You know that I feel your pain! Here's my advice for right now (if you are still feeling upset)...when Sage goes to bed tonight, have a good cry...then wipe your tears, take a deep breath and FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT the school! You know that we are in the same situation as you are (I haven't scheduled the tour of the other school with the self-contained classrooms yet, but they have postponed our IEP meeting from Tues. to a time to be determinded). We go to the psych. on Monday, so I will get her input (and see what we are going to do with the meds this month  )... Keep me posted and I'll do the same (we'll be strong together). Mayleng's suggestion about the Schwab site is a great one...I'm heading over there as soon as I am done here! Know that I am thinking of you and praying for you and Sage!!! {{{{Hugs}}}} |
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Post by willoweezie on Apr 26, 2004 1:31:35 GMT -5
Just wanted to let you all know,
I've been looking for advocates in my lawyer, psychiatrist and a program thru the county called the special education "parent ombudsman", plus I spent a good deal of time talking with a friend of my brother's who is a guidance counselor in high schools in my county yesterday.
I'm not sure what to do about all of this, mainly because I feel that Sage is ultimately the one in the firing range here and that makes me really sad and frustrated.
I may not be around for a while, this is seriously jeopardizing my work at this point, since the best time for me to get any assistance is during the regular M-F 9-5 time frame. I'm not really that in love with my job anyway, so I tend to slide in anything I can to get some resolution or answers for her in those hours, but the fact remains that I HAVE TO work.
I just don't know what to do, it's obvious that the current school has passed their judgement, I feel the adversarial atmosphere in the meetings as a huge and overwhelming pressure, I have gotten so many different pieces of advice at this point. I'm struggling with the fact that Sage is clearly not functioning well where she is now, and I'm not sure if the issue of inclusion is really all that valid at this point. A child that nobody outside of school can see is "EMOTIONALLY DISABLED" yet is having such a hard time in the current school situation.... obviously something is very, very wrong there.
My poor, poor baby! She doesn't deserve to be in the middle of a tug of war!
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Post by dfp on Apr 26, 2004 9:02:09 GMT -5
Oh Willow,
You are in such a tough place. I know that last month, when my son was having his psychotic episodes, I also was not a good worker. It was hard to juggle everything. I was lucky to have a sympathetic boss, which made it easier when I came in late or had to miss work to take ds to the psych.
You're right, poor little Sage is in a tug-of-war. You're in the middle of it so it's the hardest, but I feel certain once you get that advocate in place it will be easier. Why? Because you have a very clear-cut law on your side about Least Restrictive Environment. Now, here's another question for you: does Sage's IEP have goals for her progress? Is she meeting any of those goals? Are there areas of the IEP that you feel she's not meeting or services she's not receiving?
If she's not meeting her goals or receiving the services she needs to attain her goals, then you have another powerful weapon on your side too: Out of Compliance with the IEP.
You need to make sure you collect the following pieces of information for the advocate:
Sage's IEP and ANY & ALL written reports about her learning issues, behavioral issues, educational goals. If you don't have many written reports, get them. As your docs to write a quick note describing what she needs. It sounds as if her psych. has told you what she needs but the school isn't offering it. You need to get the psych's recommendations IN WRITING.
It might also be helpful to write up a quick comparison of what the school is proposing for Sage (and their arguments), vs. what you & Sage's docs say about what she needs. You and Sage's docs are a legal part of her IEP Team-- you have the right to bring or use ANYONE who you feel is helpful to Sage. That could be your next door neighbor, it doesn't matter.
If the school is out of compliance with Sage's IEP, you need to document how this is. Just type up some notes about how/when.
You need to collect this information for the advocate anyway-- they won't be able to help you without it.
If somehow the school tries to strongarm you into another meeting before you get the advocate, just say no. The meeting must be set at a time that is convenient to YOU.
Willow, I know (really, I do!) how awful it is when the school is ganging up on you. But once some of these legal issues are resolved I think it will be less of a tug-of-war. They may be a little cold, but they'll know you're not one to be messed with. You have a strong case.
Take care.
dfp
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Post by VaMom on Apr 26, 2004 9:11:56 GMT -5
I'm struggling with the fact that Sage is clearly not functioning well where she is now, and I'm not sure if the issue of inclusion is really all that valid at this point. A child that nobody outside of school can see is "EMOTIONALLY DISABLED" yet is having such a hard time in the current school situation.... obviously something is very, very wrong there.>>
Willow,
I don't think anybody thinks Sage should return next year to her current school, but that does not mean she should move to the center. There IS a middle ground and if you fight them your chances of getting there are much better.
As for this year, though, what in the world could be gained by moving her NOW, when there are what, seven weeks of school left? Or less? Really, I have never heard of a child changing placement at this point in the year.
Please listen to the advice given by dfp. It is EXCELLENT advice!
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Post by angel on Apr 26, 2004 19:29:32 GMT -5
Willow, I just want to say that I am so sorry for you and Sage! I am praying for you! I am angry for you!!  Hang in there and take one step at a time. hugs are being sent your way! angel |
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Post by chaknine on Apr 28, 2004 16:43:52 GMT -5
Hang in there Willow!!! I am thinking and praying for you. Take it one step at a time. Stand up to them. You can do it!!!
Shelli
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Post by willoweezie on Apr 29, 2004 10:05:07 GMT -5
Hi all, I have a bit of downtime at work at the moment so I thought I would share where we're at with school. I mentioned that the teacher put together a folder with daily report sheets, the rules on the cover that goes with Sage everywhere she goes. We decided the most important rules are: 1-No rude talk or backtalk 2-Makes effort to do work 3-No hurting self or others or threatening others 4-Follows directions She gets a  for Good Job! follows rules, a  (actually a straight line face but that was the closest one) for OK, needs some work, and a  for "stoplight!" She is given one of these for EACH rule in each period/subject of the day. Friday and Monday she got mostly and only a couple and one for not doing her work. Tuesday she got 19!! and one (again for effort) Yesterday she got 20 perfect all day until Art class where she got 4 There were no comments and I haven't heard back from the teacher so I don't know what happened. Sage swears she has NO idea what she did (I'm pretty sure she has some idea) OK... she has been SO proud of her good work, she really has been a happier, more agreeable kid every night this week. I don't know if the zoloft is starting to help (we're at 5-6 weeks) and/or this point sheet is doing as well as our "money" system at home is (she also gets "money" for the s every day). She has also been taking the focalin every morning, but not getting a second dose at school, so it may be why she is having problems with effort in the afternoon. The good thing though, is it doesn't seem to be making her more anxious at school anymore. We're going to try metadate cd so she can get all day benefits at school (oh, I hope it works!!) I was going to post yesterday about this, but I was afraid to jinx it! I still am just waiting for a phone call or something from school to say things have gone kaput again. SHe has been so much more willing to share info about school, what she's doing in this class and that class etc. she used to be the kid who said she did "nothing" all day. Our ride home in the afternoon used to be dead silence, now she sings and chats and (with prompting) will tell me about her day. I talked at length to the woman from the Special Ed office who has taken over on the "Move to the Center" campaign, and went thru a detailed list of questions and concerns I had with her. I have to say, I think some of her points were valid and with Sage (not "the student") in mind, but I'm still looking at what would be best for Sage, not the school. I won't go into novel mode and write them all here. Basically where I'm at is this: moving her now when she is showing some success (for whatever reason, meds, the behavior mod) would be pretty detrimental to the progress she is making. What kind of message would she get... "you are trying and improving, but we're going to move you anyway" If it were me, I'd probably just want to give up... I don't know where this leaves us right now or for next year. aaah...limbo stinks! I keep praying that things will keep getting better, but terribly afraid that something will happen to get the school back into push mode. As it is, I'm expecting some calls to prod at me any time now. I had a nightmare last night that I was talking to the teacher and she said "well she got these smiles, but she's really having alot of other problems than just these 4 rules" Do you ever get to a point where you let yourself take a sigh of relief? |
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Post by LurkNoMore on Apr 29, 2004 11:35:52 GMT -5
Glad to hear some good news and that Sage is making some progress...  Hope today goes just as well!!! Sorry to change the subject to me, me, me...but yesterday, I spoke with C's principal (he spent the afternoon with her), my hubby spoke with the Resource Room/Special Ed. teacher (and then she called us back last night)...this morning, the OT called and C's teacher called! Newest gripe is about "behavioral issues"...she started the conversation telling me that C was having a better day (did his essay independently)...and they have implemented the smilies with C (for working independently). She then veered off into the problems...She said when no no is next to C (her, aide or resource room teacher), he retreats (shuts down?)...he'll curl up on his chair, hunched over, holding his legs, biting on his fingers and stare into space. she mentioned that it is happening more frequently. She says she is very worried about him and is concerned that the doctors have never recommended Behavior Therapy (can someone explain what that is??) I explained that the p-doc only sees him for 45 mins. per month and has not seen him exhibit these behaviors and it is not something that we have brought up to her (we've explained the shutting down...not asked in terms of behavior therapy). I explained that the doctor feels this is due to a too high dose of medicine and that she has switched his prescription to reg. Ritalin, but the pharmacy didn't have any in stock...I should be able to pick it up today, so C can start it tomorrow. She questioned why the dr. only makes medication and dosage switches (esp. b/c this has been going on so long). I tried to explain to her that every dr. we have seen has said that C is Atypical ADHD and that he is a "tough case"...she asked about a neurologist, and I explained that C has seen 2 (one in k and 1 in 2nd gr)...and that the psychiatrist doesn't believe that there is anything a neurologist can do (seizure disorders were already ruled out). I also told her that I need to make C's annual physical appt. and that we had a list of questions to bring up to him (including HIS thoughts on seeing another neurologist)...She ended the conversation by saying C's behavior worries her as a person, not a teacher (and must worry me since I'm his mom) and that it is "beyond anything she's seen in her 15 years of teaching"... Keeping my fingers crossed that the reg. Ritalin works and these "behaviors" go away! Ugh! I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS SCHOOL YEAR TO END!!! |
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Post by angel on May 4, 2004 11:55:59 GMT -5
I just want to send hugs to both of you!!
Lurk, we changed to ritalinla too. It is working SOOOOO much better than the adderall!! She is not having emotional break downs, tics or rage! She still shows a little anxiety, but I think the day mg is just a little bit too much. I hope the ritalin works better for C!! She just seems more like herself. I hope that that will be the case for you too.
Willow, I am glad that it seems to be going better with Sage's meds and positive reinforc. I am still keeping tabs on you! Hang in there. I just know that you will find the right solution for her!
love ya,
angel
ps. My private school has been wonderful. (There are scholarships that are available for them too. Also, does your state have a voucher system?) The structure has been a very big key issue!!
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Post by angel on May 4, 2004 12:00:01 GMT -5
oh, another option that might not be as expensive is finding a homeschool network in your area and see if there is a homeschool mother (do your research though!!!) who would be willing to teach them for pay. Even if it is just until you get things going ok. Just thought I would throw that in there.
ange
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Post by willoweezie on May 4, 2004 12:18:01 GMT -5
Angel, I have been looking at private school options today, I think it will take some careful investigation on my part. I'm concerned about private schools not having to follow IDEA regulations (but another part of me wants to hope that they would not be so fixated on labels either). WHere I live there are a ton of private (very expensive) schools that are prestigious ("for the gifted" and that sort) so it will probably take me some time to weed through them. I'm certainly not in it to get her into some hoity toity school that will look good on her college applications, I just want to find a place she will feel comfortable and learn in her own unique way. I found a montessori school that sounds really good and I know it's very small, which I think would be to her advantange, but I'm not sure how she would do in that kind of environment. The positive to the "child directed" learning for her: she likes to do things her own way, the negative: I tend to think she needs a structured class that she can depend on being reliable and consistent. I found a school I would seriously consider moving her to (I haven't been there, but a friend of a friend with an ADHD daughter who couldn't "cut it" in public school & does quite well there, told me alot about it) all girls, very small classes, unfortunately it is 3rd thru 8th grade, so it wouldn't be an option for next year. Tuition is a big issue though. I make enough that I might not qualifiy for scholarship, but not so much that I have extra $$ laying around for tuition, KWIM? Espcially since I am putting out so much $$ for different therapists etc. Guess we won't be going to Disney World any time soon  Right now, I'm trying to take it one day at a time... still on edge waiting for the dreaded phone calls from school! |
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Post by willoweezie on May 4, 2004 15:23:31 GMT -5
So, the woman from the SE office who has taken over finally called me again (so glad I was away from my desk!) I was hoping they would leave me alone for a while. She wants an answer tomorrow. The principal at the center so graciously agreed to move one girl into the class they want Sage in so she will be with a girl... I wonder how the girl who will be losing her only same gender peer is going to feel about that. Not that it means I'm going to give in, but I feel like the only way I will have some peace from the school or anyone involved in this situation, is to agree to do what they want. I get the feeling that every single thing that happens at school is going in her file...  |
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Post by angel on May 5, 2004 12:22:18 GMT -5
Willow,
Your school is making me crazy. Give her a chance!!! ugh. Keep me posted on what you find out about the schools. Ours is not a ritzy school. I still didn't know how I was going to afford it with me staying home, but God just seems to provide for it. Do not let your school bully you!!
angel
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Post by willoweezie on May 5, 2004 12:30:06 GMT -5
Thank goodness for voicemail! I typed up what I wanted to say to the woman, called myself to practice then listened to it before I called her. She's almost never there so I was pretty sure I would get her voicemail, which I did. Not that you need this much info, but here's what I told her more or less: I tried to be upbeat and friendly, even though I really don't like her very much, and I'm pretty sure that I would rather eat raw fire ants than entertain their idea of least restrictive environment Private school is looking promising... Now, I just pray she doesn't call me back with "YES, BUT..." If she does I will have to call another IEP meeting to discuss the difference of opinion, and this time bring her psychiatrist and possibly my lawyer... |
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Post by LurkNoMore on May 5, 2004 12:36:30 GMT -5
Good luck Willow...what you said sounds PERFECT! I think it would do more harm than good to move Sage so late in the year...especially since she is making progress. Stand your ground...Remember, they can't make any changes unless YOU sign the paperwork! |
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Post by angel on May 6, 2004 9:26:19 GMT -5
Willow,
I think that what you said was perfect! I am so proud of you for sticking up for what you believe in! It is hard to go against that kind of pressure! Sage has a great mommy!!!
angel
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Post by willoweezie on May 6, 2004 9:38:33 GMT -5
Thanks Lurk & Angel, she hasn't called me back yet... I'm guessing she needs to actually call S's school to find out how they think she's been doing. I know she was in contact with THE CENTER in the last week, but I'm guessing she never talked to her current school. What gets me is this woman has never even met Sage, nor has the principal of the Center, yet they feel they know what is right for her based on the information provided by the school (which was overwhelmingly putting her in a negative light, of course) I know I'm biased being Mommy, but she is a really awesome kid, and it really hurts to hear "can't, won't, not able to..." do such-and-such. I know there are problems, or I wouldn't have done all that I have to help her over the last 3 years, but she has alot of strengths and positive attributes! She deserves a chance to show them all how well she can do, without being removed from mainstream. |
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Post by angel on May 6, 2004 9:43:54 GMT -5
YOU ARE SOOOOOOO RIGHT !!!!!
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)...
Hang in there and take one step at a time. hugs are being sent your way! 
for Good Job! follows rules, a 
(actually a straight line face but that was the closest one) for OK, needs some work, and a 
for "stoplight!" She is given one of these for EACH rule in each period/subject of the day.
Hope today goes just as well!!!
