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Post by kphillipson on May 11, 2017 11:55:42 GMT -5
Hi everyone - I'm new to the group (and forums). I hope I am doing this right.
We are concerned that my son has an auditory processing issue. He is homeschooled. The school tested him - academics = fine, speech didn't do anything for auditory issues, and the psychologist did his WISC-V. Because he was average or above on all the 5 global Indexes, she did not do the Ancillary Indexes. I am thinking this was not smart bc 1. He shows at least a 30 point difference between Working Memory and Fluid Reasoning, and 2. one of the Ancillary Indexes does Audotry Working Memory, which takes out the visual processing scores. Am I right in assuming that she didn't do a thorough enough job? I didn't know enough before our IEP meeting - we had that on the phone on Monday & thought it was finished...then I did research and realized that the test could give us the Ancillary Indexes & requested that info from her. We had just spent 10 min talking about my son's memory - how he said that he forgets a lot, we see it with him, etc...then we saw the Wisc-V with the point difference. She didn't think anything of it. She said it would take a long time to score the Ancillary Indexes, but she would get back to me.
So a couple questions:
1. Should she have done the Ancillary Indexes in the first place (bc presenting problem is Auditory issues)?
2. Is a 30 pt difference between the subtests a red flag?
3. Can we find out if my son has a learning disability with the difference between the Verbal and NonVerbal scale (she didn't do Nonverbal)
4. We didn't sign the IEP yet - should we make a huge stink bc she didn't do a good enough job?
5. Did she do a good enough job?
6. Should I request pairwsie differences between the subtests?
His scores:
Verbal Comp 118
Visual Spatial 119
Fluid Reasoning 131
Working Memory 100
Processing Speed 123
Full Scale 128
Thanks so much!
We do have an appt coming up on the 22nd with a speech pathologist who will do a more thorough job in processing issues too. I guess now I'm more annoyed that we could have gotten so much more out of the results from this test & want to know if she did a good job or not.
Kelly
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Post by bros on May 12, 2017 11:22:20 GMT -5
a 30 point disceprancy in the subtests is huge - I have a ~43 point discrepancy between VCI and PSI and that is considered significant.
However, he seems like he is 2e - twice exceptional - gifted & disabled.
Just request an IEE - Independent Educational Evaluation and then take your kid to a neuropsychologist. The school cannot limit what doctor you go to (except by minimum qualifications) or cost. How old is he?
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Post by healthy11 on May 12, 2017 23:00:06 GMT -5
kphillipson, first, let me welcome you to our forum. We're not the biggest online support group, but we do have a number of knowledgeable members and resources. We're moderated by volunteers, and aren't sponsored by any organization, so the information is not "skewed" towards a particular viewpoint. As Bros already asked, what is your son's age? Has he been homeschooled the entire time, or did he leave a "traditional" school because it wasn't a good fit? What do you feel are your son's strengths, versus his weaknesses? My son is in his 20's now, and when I was trying to figure out what his issues were, I had to do it by reading books, attending seminars and support group meetings, and taking him to numerous evaluators. Ultimately, he did NOT have an auditory processing disorder, as I originally thought, but he was confirmed to be highly gifted, with ADHD and a weak working memory, and he had dyslexia (reading disorder) and dysgraphia (disorder of written expression.) My son had an over 40 point discrepancy between his working memory subtest score (which, like your son, was also around 100) on the WISC-IV and his perceptual reasoning (like visual spatial abilities). My son is "2e - twice exceptional" and as Bros mentioned, I suspect that your son is likely "2e" as well. I've compiled a number of resources about twice exceptional individuals at millermom.proboards.com/thread/9972/twice-exceptional-gifted-adhd-resourcesWith regards to whether your son has an auditory processing issue, I would not expect the WISC, even with ancillary test scores, to give you adequate information to make that diagnosis. It's good that you have an appointment set up with a speech pathologist, but I would also want to have him tested by an audiologist. You can find more information about auditory processing issues at www.asha.org/Articles/Central-Auditory-Processing-and-the-Common-Core/ and www.ldonline.org/article/6146/ You mentioned that you didn't sign the IEP yet...what diagnosis did the school determine, to find him eligible for an IEP, and what kinds of remediation services are they proposing? |
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Post by kphillipson on May 15, 2017 11:47:43 GMT -5
a 30 point disceprancy in the subtests is huge - I have a ~43 point discrepancy between VCI and PSI and that is considered significant. However, he seems like he is 2e - twice exceptional - gifted & disabled. Just request an IEE - Independent Educational Evaluation and then take your kid to a neuropsychologist. The school cannot limit what doctor you go to (except by minimum qualifications) or cost. How old is he? Thank you SO MUCH!! I forgot to say, LO is 7.5 years old. So we shouldna't even bother with this joker of a psychologist who now told me she didn't do all the subtests for the Ancillary Indexes? |
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Post by kphillipson on May 15, 2017 12:00:31 GMT -5
You mentioned that you didn't sign the IEP yet...what diagnosis did the school determine, to find him eligible for an IEP, and what kinds of remediation services are they proposing? Thank you for all this info & the links! My son is 7.5 yr and has been homeschooled all his life - bc we move a lot, not because he tried school before. But my Mom (who was a special ed teacher) and I have always thought he would get "lost" in a classroom - people wouldn't see his potential. He doesn't have an IEP yet, but I found out that the school had to test him if I requested it - I thought they could test for auditory processing, but no one told me that only an audiologist could dx him until after we started the whole process! I looked into an audiologist and it's $950  So I hear what you're saying that the Ancillary tests won't really get to the heart of the matter. I am thinking to maybe just stop with the school's testing and do the IEE with a neuropsychologist that was mentioned in the other post. I have been wondering too, if maybe he does have a visual perception problem (in addition or as the only thing?). You know how you just try everything - well this energy healer (I know, right?) muscle tested and she thinks that he might have a visual perception problem -something like Irlin's Syndrome. He doesn't read chapter books even though he can read - he just reads comic books. She told me to get a magenta film to cover the page as he reads - it should come today & I guess I'll believe it if he picks up a book, puts the film over it and goes to town. So the school said that because he scored average or above in all the composite scores that he was not eligible for any school assistance. If he showed auditory issues then I was going to request them to pay for the Fast Forward program (fat chance, but schools in another county actually do because the speech pathologist who uses the program & who we are going to have him tested by is very well respected - in that county). OK, so as I'm thinking here, I think maybe we should continue on with testing from speech pathologist and then also request the IEE. What do you think about submitting a report to Quality Assurance because of the crappy job the school psychologist did in his scoring & analyzing? |
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Post by kphillipson on May 15, 2017 12:05:52 GMT -5
You mentioned that you didn't sign the IEP yet...what diagnosis did the school determine, to find him eligible for an IEP, and what kinds of remediation services are they proposing? Thank you for all this info & the links! My son is 7.5 yr and has been homeschooled all his life - bc we move a lot, not because he tried school before. But my Mom (who was a special ed teacher) and I have always thought he would get "lost" in a classroom - people wouldn't see his potential. He doesn't have an IEP yet, but I found out that the school had to test him if I Sorry -I am still learning how to do all this forum stuff! I just wanted to add that the school said (based on his Conner Scale test) that the only thing they could do was bring him back in for more testing and slap an Emotionally Disturbed Label on him! This is a sweet, anxious kid whose behaviors show themselves as slightly depressed, but if you ask him he will tell you that he's a happy kid. |
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Post by healthy11 on May 15, 2017 14:39:06 GMT -5
Don't feel that you need to apologize; we all had to start somewhere, both in terms of forum participation and learning about special education issues! Given your son's young age, it seems like you've already learned a great deal in a short time (the "lingo" alone, with acronyms like IEE and IEP, can be confusing/overwhelming to many people.) I'm sure that having a Mom who was a special ed teacher is helpful. Another very helpful website is concordspedpac.org/ ~ although it's hosted by a group in Massachusetts, their information about Types of Tests, etc. is applicable to students in other locations. concordspedpac.org/TypesEvals.html Can I ask what state you're currently living in? We might be able to give you more specific resources. (Again, being a volunteer group, not everyone "checks in daily." Members "come and go," but we'll help as best we can.) I'm going to borrow a phrase used by another poster on this website, who also happens to be a Parent Advocate (she got into that line of work after researching/learning everything she could to help her own son.) She's referred to the process of figuring out what's going on with a child as "peeling an onion." Just when you get through one layer, there's another to work through, and some people shed a few tears along the way. I certainly did. (If you want to read my son's story, it's at www.millermom.proboards.com/thread/13329/future-teacher-parent-interview ) In so far as your son reading only comic books, mine was the same way at your son's age. In fact, I still remember his 2nd grade gifted school teacher having kids present book reports on anything they wanted, and most of the kids were "light years ahead" in terms of reading level. My son did his presentation on "Captain Underpants." I didn't know it at the time, but the author, Dav Pilkey, has ADHD and is dyslexic, too. www.dyslexicadvantage.org/dyslexia-and-dav-pilkey-captain-underpants-and-more/ Getting back to your son's situation, I know Conner's Rating Scales are often used when ADHD or similar issues are suspected. I also know that virtually ALL testing is considered less reliable, and more variable, the younger a child is. I don't think I'd file a Quality Assurance complaint at this point, but I would request the IEE after you've seen the speech pathologist. To describe your son as sweet and anxious, who might appear slightly depressed, but says he's happy, doesn't sound like a child who would benefit from an IEP under an ED label at this stage. Millermom's used to have several parents whose children were trying Irlen overlays, but they haven't posted in quite a while, so I don't know if their final verdict was that the lenses helped much. I guess you can buy them relatively inexpensively on Amazon and other places, so you could try other colors besides magenta if you want. Does your son have any siblings, or neighbors to play with? I can appreciate how moving frequently can make it difficult to form long-term friendships...do you belong to any homeschool playgroups, or is he involved in any group activities, through YMCA's, or park districts, or Cub Scouts, etc? What would you describe as his strengths and main interests? |
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Post by bros on May 16, 2017 11:30:44 GMT -5
You mentioned that you didn't sign the IEP yet...what diagnosis did the school determine, to find him eligible for an IEP, and what kinds of remediation services are they proposing? Thank you for all this info & the links! My son is 7.5 yr and has been homeschooled all his life - bc we move a lot, not because he tried school before. But my Mom (who was a special ed teacher) and I have always thought he would get "lost" in a classroom - people wouldn't see his potential. He doesn't have an IEP yet, but I found out that the school had to test him if I requested it - I thought they could test for auditory processing, but no one told me that only an audiologist could dx him until after we started the whole process! I looked into an audiologist and it's $950 So I hear what you're saying that the Ancillary tests won't really get to the heart of the matter. I am thinking to maybe just stop with the school's testing and do the IEE with a neuropsychologist that was mentioned in the other post. I have been wondering too, if maybe he does have a visual perception problem (in addition or as the only thing?). You know how you just try everything - well this energy healer (I know, right?) muscle tested and she thinks that he might have a visual perception problem -something like Irlin's Syndrome. He doesn't read chapter books even though he can read - he just reads comic books. She told me to get a magenta film to cover the page as he reads - it should come today & I guess I'll believe it if he picks up a book, puts the film over it and goes to town. So the school said that because he scored average or above in all the composite scores that he was not eligible for any school assistance. If he showed auditory issues then I was going to request them to pay for the Fast Forward program (fat chance, but schools in another county actually do because the speech pathologist who uses the program & who we are going to have him tested by is very well respected - in that county). OK, so as I'm thinking here, I think maybe we should continue on with testing from speech pathologist and then also request the IEE. What do you think about submitting a report to Quality Assurance because of the crappy job the school psychologist did in his scoring & analyzing? If you ever get settled down for a bit... might be worth having him enroll in public school - the socialization provided by school is very important. Uhhhh, no offense, but an energy healer is.... uhhhh, total BS. You might want to look into a behavioral optometrist if you are concerned about something visual - but he's 7, reading comic books is perfectly normal - if you give him a chapter book, will he read and remember it? Then it is probably just a matter of interest in the material. Let the district SLP do their testing and file for an IEE and have him go to an audiologist and a neuropsychologist. No need to report the school psychologist! They did a good job - I wasn't saying that the discrepancy was a huge error, just that it is not totally normal to have a discrepancy like that. |
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Post by healthy11 on May 19, 2017 17:22:16 GMT -5
I don't know the specific rules in CA, but I would be very surprised if any school was required to do more than a "screening" for APD...similar to how they do vision screenings. They can indicate a weakness, but not diagnose or identify the reason(s) for it, nor can a school prescribe hearing aids, glasses, braces, or other specific assistive devices.
Similarly, having ADHD is considered a medical condition. A typical school psychologist is not a clinical psychologist; school psychs can screen for attentional issues using scales like the Conners, but not actually diagnose, or tell you how to treat it.
When my son had his evaluation with an audiologist, it was covered under medical insurance. His pediatrician looked at the Conners rating scales and other input to diagnose his ADHD, but again, seeing his doctor fell under the medical "umbrella."
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Post by eoffg on May 20, 2017 6:47:14 GMT -5
APD is classed as a 'medical condition', and schools aren't involved in testing for any medical conditions.
Testing for APD, requires a sound proof booth, with specific equipment for an evaluation.
An Audiologist is also needed to make recommendations for accommodations and support to the school. As schools generally have little if any understanding of APD.
Their are also variations with APD.
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