Help...Surprising Test Results

[nak2mom]

Hello:

I am new to this board and very impressed and fascinated by knowledge and insight here.

I just had both kids tested this month and came away with results not expected.

DD is 7yo. We always suspected ADHD. VERY active and social, mostly average/some high average academic performance in school, but struggles with phonics and reading. Stanford Achievement test last year was also mostly avg.

DS is almost 9. Old soul, mature sense of humor, perfectionist type. Grades always As, but struggles with attention and motivation. Stanford Achievement test last year was high avg to above avg.

They both were given the WISC IV, WIAT III and CPT II.

DD
WISC
VCI 134
PRI 127
WMI 107
PSI 126
FSIQ 132

WIAT
Reading SS 102
Math SS 100
Written Exp SS 91

dx ADHD, LD NOS (subtest consistent with dyslexia), possible CAPD

DS
WISC
VCI 134
PRI 131
WMI 86
PSI 68
FSIQ 110

WIAT
Reading SS 131
Math SS 113
Written Exp SS 99

dx ADHD inattentive, disorder written expression, possible dysgraphia/fine motor deficits and visual spatial/motor/tracking deficits.

Based on behavior and academic performance, I was surprised that DS's FSIQ was lower and am concerned with his PSI.

We are now faced with which/whose therapy to start first and whether to try meds. My husband and I have been pretty against meds, but will do what needs to be done in order to try to reduce both kiddos learning styles/LDs blossoming into an aversion to school.

Advice???

[healthy11]

nak2mom, to Millermom's!

I have an appointment to go to shortly, so I won't leave a lengthy comment now, but suffice it to say that both of your children are very bright. In the case of your son, forget the FSIQ. It's meaningless when there is such a wide spread in his scores. Instead, there's a calculation the examiner should have made, called the GAI (General Ability Index) and that's considered a more accurate estimate of his ability. If you can list all of the individual WISC subtest scores, I can calculate the GAI for you.

Capabilities aside, when it comes to someone like your son, someone used an analogy of having a high-performance brain, like a race car, but with low processing speed, it's like his race car is stuck in traffic, and that has to be extremely frustrating. No matter how smart he is, students with lower working memory and/or processing speed are bound to have difficulties in a conventional school setting, where kids are expected to retain information and spit it back out in a timely fashion on tests, etc.

Your kids (as well as my own son) are what's known as "2e" or "twice exceptional," meaning at both extremes of the learning spectrum...gifted, and/or having ADHD/LDs. If you haven't already done so, please look at some of the resources I've listed here: millermom.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Education&action=display&thread=9972

[dihicks6]

So was it the neuropsych that dx'd ADHD/ADD? I agree with Healthy on the FSIQ score. Our kids are so much of a puzzle that it's very difficult to get a handle, much less a correct number for IQ. You know your children best and your opinion is more than likely correct. The hard part is separating out the strengths/weaknesses and trying to determine how they hinder our kids across the curriculum. If you can get some educational recommendations based on your outside(?) testing, let us know what they were.

Also, welcome!

[nak2mom]

healthy 11:

Below are the sub scores.

DD WISC-IV Full Scale is 132

Verbal Comprehension: VCI is 134
Similarities - 16
Vocabulary - 15
Comprehension - 16

Perceptual Reasoning: PRI is 127
Block Design - 14
Picture Concepts - 15
Matrix Reasoning - 14

Working Memory: WMI is 107
Digit Span - 12
Letter Number - 11

Processing Speed: PSI is 126
Coding - 18
Symbol Search - 11



DS WISC-IV Full Scale is 110

Verbal Comprehension: VCI is 132
Similarities - 16
Vocabulary - 15
Comprehension - 15

Perceptual Reasoning: PRI is 131
Block Design - 12
Picture Concepts - 17
Matrix Reasoning - 16

Working Memory: WMI is 86
Digit Span - 9
Letter Number - 6

Processing Speed: PSI is 68
Coding - 4
Symbol Search - 4

Thank you for the link above and your response.

dihicks6:

Yes, it was the neurosych that dx'd both kids. However, it fits with what we have experienced at home. DD exhibits the same behavior as my husband did in early life. He was taken to a child study center that would not dx ADHD because his grades were too good...even though he had to sit outside the classroom because he could not keep his hands to himself.

Yes, the report had 30+ recommendations for each child including extra testing time, modified testing for both. Modifications on written work for DS. DD had recommendations for remedial reading and multisensory phonics. The school has already responded for DD regarding extra help with reading.

My biggest issue at this time is that DS (entering 3rd grade) is now complaining of hating school and homework is a battle. He cannot focus...drifts off. This is also the case in the classroom. It is exhausting trying to keep him on task and heartbreaking because I see he is not intentional about it and gets frustrated. Written work is painful, especially short stories. His imagination is wild and detailed...tells great stories, but cannot put them on paper. It is confusing that he does so well academically, but insists he is "dumb" and dislikes school work.

His words "It's like I know the answer, but brain thieves have taken parts of my brain to my toe and the brain police have to go after them to get my brain back where it belongs"

DD is much more easy going, but I can tell that she wants to do well and gets discouraged that she is not reading at the level her classmates do. Her issues are more behavioral i.e. impulse control/hyperactivity.

Thank you for your warm welcome ladies!

[nak2mom]

Also, we have recommendations for evals by a therapeutic optometrist, speech therapist, and occupational therapist, as well as MD for the ADHD.

[healthy11]

They say you shouldn't use a GAI calculation unless it's significantly different than the FSIQ, and it definitely is in your son's case. Your daughter's GAI is 136, and your son's is 138. They are both very bright, in the 99th percentile of the population.

I know everyone has their own opinions, but the best advice I got was that if ADHD is part of the equation, try to treat it first, because if a child can't focus/pay attention to the information that a tutor or therapist is trying to give them, then they aren't likely to learn/retain as much from the remediation efforts. That has definitely been the case for my son.

[nak2mom]

I am reaching out, again, in hopes of some guidance for my kids, who are both struggling to meet their academic potential. They are in 6th & 7th grade now, at a private college prep school, which they have attended since pre-k. 6th grade has shown to be the tipping point for both with the executive functioning issues. Our school has tried to help accommodate their needs, but I fear it is going to be continually more difficult as they progress. Therefore, we are looking for guidance on what environment might be best in handling these kinds of students.

We are currently in the North TX area. Can you recommend a way to approach public schools? It seems as though 2e is not a super well-known term in both the mental health and educational systems that I have encountered. The LDs are beginning to effect both kid’s self esteem. They are both in Duke TIP, but are developing insecurities about attending school and underperforming. Homeschooling does not seem like a great fit. I cannot even get DS to do homework and neither are self starters...plus I work full time, although from home.

Thank you so much for your help!!!

[bros]

Feb 9, 2017 10:47:56 GMT -5 nak2mom said:

I am reaching out, again, in hopes of some guidance for my kids, who are both struggling to meet their academic potential. They are in 6th & 7th grade now, at a private college prep school, which they have attended since pre-k. 6th grade has shown to be the tipping point for both with the executive functioning issues. Our school has tried to help accommodate their needs, but I fear it is going to be continually more difficult as they progress. Therefore, we are looking for guidance on what environment might be best in handling these kinds of students.

We are currently in the North TX area. Can you recommend a way to approach public schools? It seems as though 2e is not a super well-known term in both the mental health and educational systems that I have encountered. The LDs are beginning to effect both kid’s self esteem. They are both in Duke TIP, but are developing insecurities about attending school and underperforming. Homeschooling does not seem like a great fit. I cannot even get DS to do homework and neither are self starters...plus I work full time, although from home.

Thank you so much for your help!!!

6th grade is a tipping point for a lot of students - contact your local school district and tell them you have two kids with disabilities who currently attend [school] and that they will soon be leaving the school. Say that you want to hit the ground running and are wondering if they can do testing now, rather than have them not have accommodations when they enter pubic school.

Don't use 2e, you will confuse them. Say they are gifted.

[healthy11]

Bros has given you good suggestions.
I do have a friend in San Antonio who is a special ed teacher, and I'll try to ask her if she's aware of specific TX guidelines regarding gifted students with LDs, or if she's got any suggestions on what approach you might take with your local public school.
I'm also wondering if there might be any other private schools better suited to your children, besides the one they're currently attending. www.nais.org/Users/Pages/SchoolSearch.aspx and www.nagc.org/resources-publications/resources/gifted-education-us might help you. (My son attended a private gifted K-8 school in IL that was NAIS accredoted, and while they didn't remediate for his LD issues, they recognized "asynchronous development" and had smaller class sizes/more encouraging teachers.)
In any case, you might want to "educate educators" by sharing the NEA "Twice Exceptional Dilemma" publication: www.nea.org/assets/docs/twiceexceptional.pdf

"The National Education Association [NEA] is the nation’s largest professional employee
organization, representing 3.2 million elementary and secondary teachers, related
service providers, education support professionals, college
faculty, school administrators, retired educators,
and students preparing to become teachers.
Additional copies of this publication can be purchased through the
NEA Professional Library, 1-800-229-4200; www.nea.org/books,
or downloaded at www.nea.org/specialed.

[nak2mom]

Thank you both so very much for your responses. I am trying to educate the educators in our school. Some are very open, but this school is very academically stringent and seems to prefer the approach of inundating students with work. My kids are shutting down when they encounter inflexible teachers, who insist on the fast pace and busy work. Of course we are dealing with the "he/she is so smart, they just need to try harder". Meanwhile, assignments go unfinished or not turned in. When I tell administration (& some teachers) they are gifted, I think they think I'm crazy, since their performance is contrary.

I am wondering if, this summer, I should work with the kids on some organizational skills. Suggestions?

[healthy11]

I can relate to what you're dealing with. Unfortunately, if the administrators don't know about "2e" children, it's unlikely they'll ever schedule "in-service training days" or help teachers to understand more about it. That's why I strongly recommend giving them documents like the NEA's "Twice Exceptional Dilemma" publication: www.nea.org/assets/docs/twiceexceptional.pdf ~ From everything I've seen and experienced, school personnel are far less likely to doubt what it says, than if any "crazy parent" tries to explain, because it's written by a "professional education organization" and instead of you being perceived as simply caring about your own "quirky kid" it points out that are many bright students with learning differences, whose needs are not being met in current educational environments.

As far as trying to help your children work on some organizational skills this summer, my thought is that it's never too early to start, but I'm betting it's going to be an ongoing process. I don't think my son really showed significant improvement until he was in his mid-teens, but maybe yours will be quicker learners. You might look at past posts that list some organizational resources, like millermom.proboards.com/thread/13972/best-homework-study-apps-additudemag and millermom.proboards.com/thread/7315/helping-kids-adults-get-organized

[healthy11]

I just received an email from ADDitude online, about "Messy Student's Guide to Not Losing Stuff" www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/5943.html?utm_source=eletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=february&mc_cid=03354498b9&mc_eid=4053896200

Also, they have a free webinar titled, "The Organized Student" www.additudemag.com/RCLP/sub/10631.html?utm_source=eletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=february&mc_cid=03354498b9&mc_eid=4053896200