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Post by dwolen on Nov 13, 2011 23:24:55 GMT -5
I really wish I had been able to go the the IDA workshops, but it was a little too pricy for me right now, and hard to justify for my continuing education needs/funding. Everyone and Jisp, regarding whether Cogmed could help one of your students and others, I suggest you look at this link to 10+ research articles: www.cogmed.com/researchMost of the research on Cogmed is on children, not adults, nor young adults like my dd. I think the changes/improvement in functioning that dd has reported to me and that I am reporting here are due to Cogmed, not Landmark. I say this because though dd received excellent counseling and education about her LD's/ADHD and how to work around these problems, and learned to use learning tools such as Dragon and Kurweil very comfortably, and learned to better accept her problems, her skill set remained the same, likely due to being not medicated for ADHD. Her working memory problems, EF problems, spelling, disorganization, angst, anxieties about all these problems and the problems generated by these problems remained through this past summer after graduating from Landmark. It is true that motivation is important in using Cogmed, but it is probably more important in a student my dd's age because she has more of a choice about what she does; well, the choice is all hers, really. A younger child will likely do many of the things that the parent wants the child to do. However, as the lessons go on, Cogmed gets harder, so that is why there is coaching included in the cost. The coach monitors the progress, as the lessons are sent to the coach, and talks to the student at least once a week for a pep talk/motivational conversation. If I had a dtr with a boarderline IQ, I think that improving working memory would certainly be a positive thing for improved functioning. However, the studies of Cogmed show that while it improves working memory, I have read that it does not affect IQ. But for a GOOD answer on this based on knowledge (of which I havae none), I suggest asking a Cogmed vendor, usually a neuropsychologist who offers Cogmed as part of her/his practice. |
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Post by healthy11 on Nov 14, 2011 9:23:50 GMT -5
Dr. Milton Dehn (see my previous reply #29) is a psychologist who is considered to be an expert in testing and evaluation, and he's the one who said memory training, such as Cogmed, seems to be able to boost working memory capacity by up to 15%. Since only a very small part of IQ testing addresses memory, I wouldn't expect much IQ effect.
Dr. Dehn was directly asked whether CogMed improves processing speed, and he said that he wasn't sure but it doesn't appear to, based on his own clients and data he's seen to date.
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Post by hsmom on Nov 14, 2011 14:18:27 GMT -5
Milton Dehn did mention other brain training programs besides Cogmed, Jungle Memory being one that I know. I had my son do it for 4-5 times a week for 8 weeks one summer and it did help him improve his working memory. It is for children 7-16 and costs $50. My son was 12 when he did it and I would say it probably would sustain the interest of younger rather than older children. junglememory.com/Tracy Alloway, currently at the U of North Florida, developed Jungle Memory while she was at U of Durham and U of Stirling in the UK. www.unf.edu/coas/psychology/Tracy_Alloway.aspxDehn mentioned that working memory research has been going on in the UK much longer than in the US. And, here is a link to the Centre for Working Memory and Learning at the U of York. www.york.ac.uk/res/wml/ |
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Post by shragae on Nov 15, 2011 11:22:09 GMT -5
Did anyone see the 20/20 episode with Gabby Kaplan -- the Congresswoman who was shot and is a TBI recover-er? It was fascinating.
My DS is currently doing Lumosity about 15 minutes a day. He is doing the TBI and the general training. I'm hoping for some improvement in working memory, processing and executive functioning. Time will tell.
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Post by michellea on Nov 24, 2011 9:57:12 GMT -5
Just heard a presentation at my son's former LD school. The Head of School was at the IDA conference and also attended a cognitive science conference at the same time. To paraphrase - we are pretty solid about how to use reading instruction to remediate. What we are now interested in is how to make fundamental changes to the brain so that we can leverage the inherent strengths of the dyslexic brain and improve the weaknesses such as processing speed and working memory. The school is entering talks to do some research/intervention using cogmed for working memory and luminosity for processing speed/visual spatial processing. Already they are integrating some cognitive therapy into their math curriculum to address the some of the visual spatial areas of the brain. He said that the other LD schools at the conference thought he was crazy......
Interesting stuff.
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Post by hsmom on Nov 25, 2011 11:34:46 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this michellea,
To me this is just what my son needs, help with his visual-spatial processing and with increasing his processing speed. I am going to let the head of my son's school know what they are embarking on at your son's former school.
I know the two exchange information; the head of my son's school learned about your son's former school's success with early morning exercise based on John Ratey's work and incorporated that into the school's program.
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Post by michellea on Nov 25, 2011 11:46:51 GMT -5
hsmom - the mom that has kids at your son's school was there at the meeting (I wasn't able to chat with her). But if you see her, I'm sure she'd love to chat. What a small world it is!!
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Post by dwolen on Nov 25, 2011 18:21:51 GMT -5
My dd drove to meet a friend at the other side of Chicago, without GPS. She reported a new skill: she is now able to read street signs while she is driving. This is the first time she could do this without pulling over. She said previously, she saw letters on signs and thought, "those are words, I should read them," but now she can look at a sign and see that it says "one way" on one glance. She is feeling rather shocked that this is the way most people function and that she did not know this before. With each new skill acquired, she feels rather shocked. BTW, she can still think in pictures, and this is a big help in art work. It is not as useful in our word full world.
Hope you all are having a restful and thankful holiday. I am thankful for you all.
My husband, with a similar learning style (picture thinking without the benefit of cogmed) still cannot read street signs. He says it is too much to process it, and on road trips together, he depends on me being the passenger to steer him.
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Post by michellea on Nov 25, 2011 18:50:03 GMT -5
dwolen - I shared your daughter's success with a friend that is thinking about cogmed for her son. I'll let her know about being able to read street signs. Yes, we have much to be thankful for. Sounds like dd is at home for Thanksgiving - enjoy the time  with her. |
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Post by healthy11 on Nov 25, 2011 23:31:25 GMT -5
Oddly, for as lousy as my son's dyslexia and working memory are, reading street signs was one thing he did at an early age... In fact, when he was younger, getting him to sit still and try to pronounce words in books was more of a challenge than getting him to try and practice sounding out words on signs and buildings when we were going places. Perhaps he's one of those kids who has to keep moving in order to learn better, but for whatever reason, navigating from place to place and keeping an eye on the signs is something he seems to do fairly easily. He's such a mix of strengths and weaknesses......
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Post by dwolen on Nov 27, 2011 0:01:17 GMT -5
It was nice, michellea, until I said the wrong thing, thoughtless, really. Drama, lots of it. Then there was miscommunication about a winter break volunteer gig, which I said might involve some pay. Apparently, my dd thought I said it was going to be all paid work, and "why would I volunteer to do something I don't care about?" Ugh, I wish I could go back 8 weeks to replay what I said. Maybe I did communicate it was all to be paid? I wish I had more "emotional intelligence" because my dd needs it, but I definitely know she has imperfect parents.
It was a dark moment, but then dd held out the olive branch, another new behavior for her.
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Post by dwolen on Nov 30, 2011 22:37:20 GMT -5
I am posting the new skills my dd is telling me about because I hope that it will be useful information. (I hope it does not sound like "bragging"!
So, my dd called with another new skill that occurred today: note taking in class during lecture. She was never able to do this before, and has an accommodation to get notes from another student. She has a smart pen, but did not use it much because it was so hard to take notes.
But today, for the first time, she said she took notes (with a regular pen) during the whole lecture of one class, and during a lecture by a guest speaker in another class. She can actually read her notes and make sense of them, too, because they are more legible and the spelling errors are easier to decipher. And, when she reads over the notes, she remembers the class content better. One of her classmates asked dd about something that the other student missed, and dd had it in her notes.
Since she never was able to take notes before, she does not know how to study with them. I suggested reading them aloud, re-writing them or typing them, paraphrasing them, explain the notes content in her own words (my strategies when I was a student and when I have to learn something new, now.)
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Post by healthy11 on Nov 30, 2011 23:11:08 GMT -5
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Post by michellea on Dec 2, 2011 19:30:12 GMT -5
dwolen - does not seem like bragging at all - in fact it is really interesting!
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Post by dhfl143 on Dec 2, 2011 21:39:09 GMT -5
Very interesting and exciting to see our kids using the forefront of science to improve their abilities. Thanks for sharing. This stuff fascinates me.
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Post by dwolen on Jan 18, 2012 12:54:58 GMT -5
The newest skill acquired or problem area overcome, that is related to sound processing/dyslexia problems is music note reading.
Dd had a dream about her violin, which she put aside 9 years ago, at age 14. She just could not learn to read notes and memorized everything via the Suzuki method. But, as one gets into orchestra in school, you really have to read notes. The violin teacher implied that dd had LD's but never really openly discussed it with me, just made sarcastic remarks like, "I tell myself that G-d sent you to me for a reason!"
Anyway, after the violin dream this morning, dd looked up music on the internet and taught herself the basics. Then she got her violin out,tuned it, and started reading notes and playing. She is working through Suzuki book one now. She said I could share this with you all.
Dd could not note read to save her life before Cogmed. She is also continuing to sound out words. Her spelling has improved greatly. I know this because she is listening to Ted lectures and taking notes for practice. She asked me to read the notes she took to see if they made sense. She can spell: chemistry, biology, science, as well as there, their, and she is not leaving the silent "e's" off of words. As someone who knows her spelling very well, I can tell you the change is remarkable.
This dd of mine had so much frustration through her school life, and I often told her that she was "a late bloomer," as she wiped her frequent tears. Now, she believes it as she blooms. There is a big smile on her face as she looks for a battery to replace the dead one in the tuner for the violin.
So, for those of you who are counting, dd finished Cogmed 5.5 months ago. There are 100 "extra" 15 minute Cogmed lessons, which she is doing due to feeling motivated by the improved skills she has seen.
Also, since her plans for winter break work fell through, she has been doing the "old people's computer program," ie, Posit Science auditory. We (mom and dad) bought it a few years ago after adds on public TV suggested to us that we might fight our potentials for alzheimer's disease. Posit Science is based on Fast Forward. Dd previously refused to even consider doing the Posit Science program, though it does emphasize phonics and sound processing. With little to do over this month at home, she started Posit auditory program. It makes her feel very angry but she is sticking to it.
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Post by healthy11 on Jan 18, 2012 15:33:37 GMT -5
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Post by Mayleng on Jan 19, 2012 8:50:42 GMT -5
That is wonderful news.
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Post by michellea on Jan 19, 2012 9:01:49 GMT -5
I've always been skeptical - but your daughter's success may be opening my mind! DS's school is beginning to implement cognitive therapy for certain students based on cogmed and others with the idea of making new connections and changing the brain rather than just teaching compensatory strategies. All this good news has me thinking.....
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Post by hsmom on Jan 19, 2012 13:56:46 GMT -5
Dwolen,
Such encouraging news. Please keep them coming.
Michellea,
My son's school is considering a trial of Cogmed. The headmaster is skeptical, but a learning disabilities specialist/educational consultant that they work with and have a deep respect for has been talking to them about how impressed she is with the program. She encouraged him to offer a pilot program for the students in the spring. I'll keep you informed.
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Post by glopop11 on Jan 19, 2012 17:50:22 GMT -5
Dwolen, that is so encouraging!!! I love hearing about your dd's progress!!!
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Post by dwolen on Jan 22, 2012 9:19:14 GMT -5
Here's another new skill dd believes is a benefit from Cogmed: dd was helping in a friend's office (our state representative), entering phone numbers of constituents into an excel spread sheet. She was able to perform this task, she said, about 2-3 times faster than previously, and only had to check once to see if the number was entered correctly.
Previously, she said, a task like this would have been done 2-3 times more slowly, with many errors. She has had the experience in such situations of being criticised for being "so slow" and many so many errors. She has lost jobs due to being "too slow," at the cash register, at the counter remembering the food order.
But, with the increased speed and accuracy, this time she was only thanked and asked to come back as a summer intern.
I believe this type of task requires skills derived from working memory.
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Post by kewpie on Jan 23, 2012 11:36:52 GMT -5
>All this good news has me thinking..... ,
Me too!
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Post by dwolen on Mar 7, 2012 14:14:11 GMT -5
Fulfilling a need for objectivity, I just finished a continuing ed program by Russell Barkely, and he still considers Cogmed experimental for ADHD.
However, my dd reports that she find memorizing and recall possible now. She said she always thought it was stupid to study, because no matter how much she studied, she never remembered what she studied.
Now, when she studies, and looks at the material the next day, she can remember what she studied, and can build on it with the next study session's material. Also, she can access the material for tests and quizzes. Her grades on quizzes and tests are much improved, and she says she finally understands the point of studying.
So, despite RB's opinion, Cogmed is working for this one individual. I'm no psychologist, but I found the studies more convincing than RB does.
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Post by hsmom on Mar 7, 2012 14:46:29 GMT -5
Dwolen,
Thank you for your updates; they are really encouraging.
A learning specialist that my son's school works with has convinced them to offer a five-week pilot Cogmed program for those boys who are motivated to sign up. My son's being resistant to the idea, but I am hopeful that when he hears her presentation, he may change his mind.
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Post by healthy11 on Mar 7, 2012 14:55:12 GMT -5
I don't think there is any one single treatment that will work the same for everyone who tries it, but it's wonderful to hear that Cogmed is working so well for your daughter, especially since other approaches (like medications for ADHD) did not help her! No doubt, her experience at Landmark may have also shown her new strategies for studying, and given her the confidence to keep trying, where she might have given up before.  (Did you see the recent article in one of Chadd's publications, summarizing a meeting between Drs. Russell Barkley and Ned Hallowell at the Chadd 2011 Conference? Although their "attitudes" towards ADHD (being a gift vs. disability) don't agree, the two experts found lots of common ground. Their perspectives do differ, however, because Dr. Barkley tends to study groups as a whole, whereas Dr. Hallowell draws more from personal experiences. I think that's why Dr. Barkley is more cautious about new treatments, and referring to them as experimental, because they may help individuals, but there's not widespread scientific data yet.) |
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Post by zippity on Mar 19, 2012 3:11:52 GMT -5
Wonderful news D! I never thought about the major jump in spelling in relation to CogMed but to LMB. Perhaps her ability to improve has remained due to both the sessions.
She still recognizes the possible misspelling of some words and will ask us, by first spelling how she thinks it might be then listening to our answer or input. She's often right or quite close.
I think she has become quite organized and methodical in much of her thinking and planning, except when it comes to writing. She had me take her to the store last year to find a journal she could use as her chosen reminder, time management and date planner. She keeps me up to date on what needs to happen for her in relation to school and outside of school activities. She has a computer but she likes the booklet to track her schedule, and assignments. The school still makes her keep her assignment in the notebook they gave her.
She is still having the most trouble with writing, generation of thought, expanding her thought, getting to the deeper meaning of what she has read in order to write. We are fortunate to have a tutor who continues to stick with us in this recession. I don't know how my daughter will do in college. She insists on a university, I think a community college would be better at easing her into the academic demands and of course her school tells her a private college is best suited but we can't afford the latter.
I have always thought of Landmark, from all I have heard, would be an excellent education for many of our children on this board.
My daughter will be retested for her triennial this year. I am curious after four years what has changed from a testing perspective.
Overall I think ongoing supports and services from an individual person working one on one has been by far the best thing for my child's academic success. My daughter works hard to get good grades and knowing she still gets lost, she will take advantage of the after school help sessions especially for AP English. Of all the AP classes for her to take I was surprised she chose English literature.
I still credit a major cognitive boost during our short time with LMB, 12 weeks, mostly just the spelling section because she tested fine in the other areas they offer to remediate. I had to insist with our limited funds at the time not to put other instruction and dilute the intensity needed to turn around her spelling. We never finished the last 4 weeks but with her now reading for pleasure she is catching up some of the lost vocabulary. I don't think she is where should be but she wouldn't be anywhere near where she is now if she had not had LMB.
I think it will come down to a day when she is ready to tackle other methods of improving her memory like what Dr. Dehn advocated. She will need it as well as continue to compensate in ways that work for her.
I'll have to check back one of these days to see what you are able to elaborate on Healthy.
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Post by healthy11 on Mar 19, 2012 8:02:53 GMT -5
dwolen,  |
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Post by hsmom on Mar 19, 2012 9:19:42 GMT -5
Happy Birthday, Dwolen!! Hope you have a great day.
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Post by healthy11 on May 29, 2012 9:08:01 GMT -5
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with her.
