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Post by hsmom on May 30, 2012 19:59:43 GMT -5
Thanks Healthy for posting this. I'm bookmarking for reading later.
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Post by samanthax on Jun 3, 2012 19:43:38 GMT -5
I just registered on this site today and was intrigued by seeing your "post subject"since my daughter struggles with working memory. She is 8years old and it has already made elementary school a struggle - MATH ESPECIALLY! (My post is the one about trying to figure out how to approach the schools for the first time) I read through this post/replies and looked into CogMed. The nearest location to us (we are in Greenville, South Carolina) is 1 1/2 hrs. away. She does NILD therapy (http://www.nild.net/) twice a week at the Pearl Center. We are doing the one-on-one tutoring, not the classes (http://www.pearlcenterforlearning.com), but I feel like a daily dose of "memory therapy" would only help. Since CogMeg isnt close to us, we may try the 30day free trial of Luminosity to see what happens. I am so happy for you and your daughter. Hearing positive progress reports are a light at the end of the tunnel. Congrats! Samantha
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Post by kewpie on Jun 4, 2012 10:39:18 GMT -5
Samanthax, You don't have to be close to a cogmed center as you only need to visit twice. 98% of the work is done at home on your personal computer with a weekly phone call from the person who is monitoring the progress. I am taking 2 of my kids in to a Cogmed facility next month. After reading this thread, I think it may be a missing link that tutoring has not been able to fill.
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Post by dwolen on Jun 5, 2012 12:25:54 GMT -5
It's about 6 months since dd finished the main part of cogmed. Her working memory is much improved. Examples are: she can remember what she has decided to do when she leaves the house, her sense of time is much improved, she does not feel like she is in an incomprensible fog, her executive function, while not being as good as those never having problems, is much improved. SHe is at home with us this summer, doing a summer intership, with another year of college to go. She started the internship Saturday. She was up without prompting, went jogging, made her own meal, and was out the door and at work at the designated hour. I have to say, she is so much more pleasant tobe around now that she can function more effectively.
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Post by hsmom on Jun 5, 2012 18:15:48 GMT -5
dwolen,
It's so nice to hear that your daughter is still seeing improvements more than six months after finishing Cogmed. A consultant that my son's school works with offered a pilot program and he finished just after mid-May. Although we were told that most don't see results until 30 days to six months after finishing, my son told me that he already found it easier to do multiple step math problems.
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Post by hsmom on Jun 5, 2012 18:28:18 GMT -5
Samanthax,
As Kewpie said above, you don't have to be near your Cogmed provider to do it. The Consultant who offered Cogmed at my son's school talked with him once a week on the phone and also sent him emails.
He said that Cogmed was "hard, but not exhausting" (his words). As your daughter is still young, you may want to consider having her do Jungle Memory which is also a working memory training program for children. See my response (#32) above.
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Post by dwolen on Jun 5, 2012 19:54:15 GMT -5
It is acutally 9 months since my dd finished cogmed. We were talking about it today and she corrected me, that she finished it last September. She said she would have great difficulty getting through ths demanding academic year at Lesley without the marked improvement in executive functioning that occurred with the dramatic improvement in the working memory.
I also told her I was posting about what she told me about cogmed, here. I had asked her permission quite a while back, but she forgot about it. She says she hopes this information has been helpful. I told her I wanted to post this information,and about her experiences,as I know them, at Landmark, because you all have been so generous in giving me advice on how to guide my dd. She was very interested in the type of advice I got. It was around February, 2010 that I posted her test scores and said, What do you think? Should I encourage her to go back to college? Thanks again, a million times. And thanks for the birthday wishes. I did not see them 3 months ago!
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Post by healthy11 on Jul 11, 2012 14:24:14 GMT -5
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Post by dwolen on Jul 16, 2012 22:00:09 GMT -5
I have been experiencing my dd's improved working memory because I am helping her prepare to apply for grad school for the fall of 2013. She has started studying for the MAT, Miller Analogies Test, required by Lesley U, and other grad schools; others require GRE. Today, DD started memorizing the US presidents in order, and the Greek alphabet. I have to tell you all that it is truly amazing that she is able to do this. She had no idea who the US presidents were in the past. She says, "see, I am not stupid anymore! This is all due to Cogmed. I could never do this until I did Cogmed last summer." Then she gave me permission to post this progress here.
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Post by healthy11 on Jul 16, 2012 22:55:12 GMT -5
To me, the best part about your story is that your daughter has regained confidence in herself, and feels capable of learning again! (Although I've got to admit, I'm disappointed that memorizing U.S. Presidents, and Alpha to Omega, are recommended things to study for grad school admission tests??)
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Post by dwolen on Jul 17, 2012 6:15:07 GMT -5
She took a sample test for assessment in the MAT prep book, and areas of knowledge that are lacking are social science and a couple others. I think there were some sample questions about the US presidents and the order of their serving, and analogies about the Greek letters, so dd decided to study these. It will broaden her base of knowledge even if she never encounters another analogy about the US presidents. But she says, there are 100 analogies on the MAT, so if one has to do with either US presidents or alpha through omega, and she gets it right, it will add 1% to her score.
The thing about her confidence is that she would not have it if it were not for being able and capable of acquiring this information, ie, effectively learning. As you know, all the positive parenting to build confidence is useless if the child fails to learn. Accomplishments and success build confidence. She was confident when she was 5-6, before starting 1st grade. It was all downhil after that. It is also amazing that she is making plans and implementing the plans to go to grad school. Compared to 3 years ago, when she was first dx with ADHD-inattentive, and I began seeking help here, she has come a long way. She is actually thinking about the future and planning for it.
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Post by healthy11 on Jul 17, 2012 8:04:27 GMT -5
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Post by fc11 on Jul 17, 2012 13:47:00 GMT -5
but isn't it true that CogMed is for short term memory?
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Post by dwolen on Jul 17, 2012 19:07:45 GMT -5
My understanding of working memory Sort term memory) is that it is important for lots of intellectual and even everyday tasks. For example, people with poor working memory often have difficulty with math equations because keeping several math facts in their working memory that are needed to do the calculation is extremely difficult. My dd often understood the concepts behind algebra but she could not remember the math facts needed to solve the equation. She could never remember the multiplication tables, for example Now she is able to do this. Apparently, when working memory is strong, one is able to transfer what is in working memory into longer term memory, thus learning takes place. With a weak working memory, the information transfer to long term memory is much weaker.
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Post by fc11 on Jul 17, 2012 20:52:38 GMT -5
My dd often understood the concepts behind algebra but she could not remember the math facts needed to solve the equation. She could never remember the multiplication tables, for example Now she is able to do this. . In fact, it is a reason I am not sure whether CogMed is what my child needs, everyone (including her sped teachers) recognizes her strong long term memory. I first taught her Math in 3rd grade, her multiplication table is so good that it was much much better than the regular ed kid.... however, I didn't understand the concepts.. she is getting better in the concepts because she does not have to spend "time" to recall the multiplication facts (kind of like fluency helps comprehension). She can easily remember directions, phone numbers...hence the more I read about your daughter's success the more confused I am..
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Post by dwolen on Jul 18, 2012 7:59:43 GMT -5
To help clear up your confusion, I suggest you go to the Cogmed website to read the listed research articles and other information. This will give you a much better idea if this is the type of help your dd needs. Additionally, the Cogmed provider does a screening to see if the potential client would be helped by Cogmed. Since the Cogmed providers are psychologists and neuropsycologists, I think it is more likely that you can trust the screening results, as psychologists have professional and ethical standards to hold up. As one who reads published psychosocial and medical research, the research articles seem pretty legit to me.
This is being said by a mom how paid/wasted/threw away into the garbage can, over $6,000 on the Davis Dyslexia program. No research base on this one, and I knew it and still wrote the checks!
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Post by dwolen on Jul 18, 2012 8:02:02 GMT -5
The link about working memory that healthy11 posted in #71 is very good.
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Post by temomma on Jul 19, 2012 6:11:26 GMT -5
Samanthax, You don't have to be close to a cogmed center as you only need to visit twice. 98% of the work is done at home on your personal computer with a weekly phone call from the person who is monitoring the progress. I am taking 2 of my kids in to a Cogmed facility next month. After reading this thread, I think it may be a missing link that tutoring has not been able to fill. I just read your post, and I am in doubt if it's can help us. Work at home.... We do. And how to make him work on what hard for him === what he needs, I do not know
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Post by kewpie on Jul 25, 2012 13:22:29 GMT -5
So far I took my oldest son into the clinic. They had him work on a computer "game" to see where his weakness lie. For the cogmed piece, they gave him a choice between the more boring "adult" version or the "teen" version which has much more interesting visuals which seems far more "game like". There is also a "kids" version for younger clients. He chose the teen version and has been doing well over the last 2 weeks. There is a short phone call with the provider 1x per week. The actual time spent on the games is about 20-25 minutes per day, 5 days per week. DS's WM is very, very low, so it should be challenging.. but he is hanging in there so far without complaints. He is not shy about complaining about this type of stuff either! The cost is $1500 for one child and $1300 for the 2nd child.
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Post by healthy11 on Jul 25, 2012 14:10:10 GMT -5
kewpie, how old is your son? Did they mention if studies have been done on results that adults have, using the "teen Cogmed" version of the software?
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Post by kewpie on Jul 25, 2012 15:33:00 GMT -5
This son is now 21. All the versions basically do the same thing, the graphics are more engaging to the prospective audience. The provider had said she had done the program herself and did the teen version as the graphics looked more interesting. E.g. the adult version may just show a circular pattern of rotating large dots vs gears rotating on a robot.
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Post by hsmom on Jul 27, 2012 10:23:21 GMT -5
The teacher who was overseeing the students doing Cogmed at my son's school did the same teen version as they did. She started two weeks early so that she would have a sense of what they were experiencing. She told me that it became challenging.
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Post by dwolen on Aug 10, 2012 15:58:55 GMT -5
It is now nearly a year since my dd finished Cogmed (end of August, 2011.) She also did the 100-15 minute follow up lessons last fall. She is now in the process of being retested by a psychologist that is needed to qualify for accommodations for the GRE/MAT and in grad school. Yesterday she did the working memory testing. She does not have the results, but was pleased at how well she perceived she did on working memory tasks. She does have slow processing, though, and asked the psychologist to give ther the items more slowly. When he spoke more slowly, she said her performance was much better. She feels good about this because it is an objective measure, to her, of what her experience has told her are improvements in her working memory. She does know that she has to wait for the actual results to compare the testing results from 2007 to actually know if there is an objective and measurable improvement.
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Post by healthy11 on Aug 10, 2012 18:44:58 GMT -5
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Post by zedm23 on Sept 13, 2012 0:54:05 GMT -5
I'm an adult male with ADHD and I tried the first two days of cogmed and to me it just seems like complete BS. They say trust your gut and I can tell the difference between something challenging that helps me accomplish something difficult and something stupid which simply flexes my mind in a way that it has decided was a waste of time to flex. ADHD is a struggle and the thing which helps the most is tutoring.
Like most things in life the problem is money. We just can't afford those tutors but we can afford 1500 dollars one time. Rather than figure out a solution to the real problem which is how can we get one on one instruction for our kids (even if it comes from parents or friends of parents), we look for ways to dodge the reality of just how much life really costs.
The best way to help your kids is to teach them to fight for the resources they need rather than pretend something like cogmed (which is a computer program) will be a substitute for quality help from loving human beings. FYI, my cogmed "coach" was the husband of the Psychologist who administered the test. He is a real estate agent and an idiot. He was nothing like the sensitive, caring woman who suggested I try Cogmed in the first place. She unfortunately married an idiot, but I don't have to be coached by an Idiot. I can find a tutor.
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Post by healthy11 on Sept 13, 2012 7:33:15 GMT -5
zedm23, welcome to Millermoms forum. We appreciate hearing about your experience with Cogmed, even though it hasn't been positive thusfar. If you don't mind my asking, can you give us a little more background about yourself? Besides ADHD, do you have LDs? As an adult who recommends tutoring, are you still in school? (I know some adults with ADHD prefer to work with ADHD Coaches: www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/4002.html ) What aspects of your life were you hoping would improve with Cogmed? I'm not sure if you read all of the previous posts in this discussion, but I think you'll see a fair amount of skepticism that any one ADHD approach is a "cure all." We recognize that what works for one person may not necessarily help another. Dwolen's daughter tried numerous "treatments" over the years, and is unable to tolerate medications, but feels Cogmed has improved her memory. She also attended a specialized LD college program where tutoring and coaching was available, so it's probably been a combination of things that have contributed to her current success. I'm wondering, since you paid for the Cogmed program, will the Psych return any of your money? Is it possible to ask if anyone else can "coach" you, since her husband's demeanor isn't as supportive as you'd hoped? (Is there a "Cogmed Corporate" number you can call, and ask if they have anyone else who can serve as a coach? I would think they'd rather have you try that, then totally "give up.")
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Post by dwolen on Sept 13, 2012 12:20:33 GMT -5
There are at least 15 studies that demonstrate Cogmed's effectiveness in 80% of students (children, adolescents and adults) to improve working memory. The exercises in Cogmed are easy at first, and over the 5 weeks, increase in difficulty. That is why there is a coach, to encourage the student not to give up. My dd said she hated doing the exercises.
My dd is certain that the dramatic improvement in working memory and her functioning has been because of Cogmed. Even during her year at Landmark College, she felt as though she was in a fog, and she had felt that way all her life. It is only since she finished Cogmed that she feels clarity and perceives the world as a more orderly place.
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Post by kewpie on Sept 13, 2012 13:57:49 GMT -5
>ADHD is a struggle and the thing which helps the most is tutoring. < Not everyone with adhd has a low working memory score. if you don't have a LWM score then cogmed would not make sense for you. Latest research shows that working memory is more of a predictor of academic success than IQ.
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Post by healthy11 on Sept 13, 2012 16:31:01 GMT -5
Kewpie, do you have an links to that research? When I attended a recent IDA Conference, there was a presenter who gave a day-long session on memory, and I could've sworn he said that practically all people with ADHD have memory difficulties. Granted, working memory is just one "type" of memory, but I would like to read more about it....
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Post by kewpie on Sept 13, 2012 17:26:53 GMT -5
I think it was in one of the articles posted in this dicussion,
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