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Post by ohmama on Nov 8, 2006 21:00:53 GMT -5
Glad to hear the good results. We go to the psych tomorrow so I'll know more after that. I really want to try and see if it will work for us.
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Post by ohmama on Nov 11, 2006 15:22:13 GMT -5
Pearl,
We just got back in town from seeing the psych. He did not want to Rx the Lamictal as he is very cautious about the SJS Rash side effects so he says he doesn't prescribe it. I pushed for it though and he did give me a prescription to be used if Topamax doesn't work. He wants us to try the Topamax first. I told him I have heard from alot of parents on the bpkids site who are having success with Lamictal. I think he is going to check out that message board over there as he wrote it down.
Did you have any problem weaning the Depakote? Our psych says there should be no problem with using the combo of Depakote and Lamictal together! I told him about the drug interaction checker listing it as serious but he says not a problem! I don't know what to think about that. The "Straight Talk" book also mentions using Lamictal and Depakote together with no problems.
We need to wean the Lithium and stop the thyroid med as the thyroid med (Synthyroid) is too stimulating. It is responsible for activating him. This is what I suspected all along but the endocrinologist said it never happens. All I know is since giving him that, he has been very anxious and has had several breakdowns. He's really having a hard time today so I have to close for now and get to Costco for the Topamax before he drives me nuts.
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Post by 2pearl on Nov 13, 2006 10:44:54 GMT -5
ohmama,
We have been increasing the Lamictal and decreasing the depakote weekly for the past month. I am very, very pleased with the Lamictal. It has been much more effective as a MS for my son and has absolutely NO side effects for him. Remarkably we have noticed a decrease in hyperactivity ( I believe the depakote made him hyper) he is back to normal eating patterns and is just much sharper and happier. We began to see the positive effects after about 3 weeks.
I have read in Straight Talk and other places that Lamictal is a very good choice for childhood BP as long as it is started at a low dose and increased slowly.
Initially,we dropped the depakote too quickly and he became hypomanic. This happened because I was afraid of adding the Lamictal to the depakote and wanted to wean him from depakote before adding the Lamictal. Big Mistake. We should not have waited to start the Lamictal, we should have started it while decreasing the depakote.
Currently DS is in a holding pattern at 250mg depakote and 100mg Lamictal. We go back to the psych tomorrow to determine what his final dosing will be.
Good luck with topamax. I hope your son is feeling better soon.
Oh yes and I must mention that DS HATES taking the Lamictal. He says it dissolves immediately in his throat and tastes horrible.
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Post by ohmama on Nov 13, 2006 13:51:45 GMT -5
Pearl, It is very encouraging to hear about the Lamictal working so well. So many people have said the same thing that I think I would like to give it a try too. I think our kids are around the same size? The psych says if and when I do start the Lamictal I should give 25mg a day and after 2 weeks increase it to 50mg per day, next give 75mg for 2 weeks, then 100mg after another 2 weeks. My boy is 135 lbs and 5'8" tall. Keep me posted on your progress and congratulations, I'm jealous! It is amazing how much better fireboy is now that we stopped the thyroid med. So far weaning the Lithium has been going very well too. I'm not going to start the Topamax yet till my husband gets back in town this weekend. I may need him to help out if anything goes wrong. I am so happy for your family  frontclap*   |
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Post by 2pearl on Nov 13, 2006 14:05:26 GMT -5
5'8" !!!!! That is really tall! My son is about 90 pounds and probably 5'1".
So 100mg is the goal? Did your psych say to split the dose am/pm or take it all at night? This is one of the questions I have for our psych tomorrow. How much depakote does he take and how are you planning to reduce it?
I'll be crossing my fingers for you!!
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Post by ohmama on Nov 13, 2006 16:11:20 GMT -5
From what I gather, and I will double check before starting it, the dose should be divided 25mg AM and 25mg PM.? He wants to reevaluate after we reach 100mg if there is a need to go higher. He doesn't think we should wean the Depakote at all! I don't agree and will request to wean if we do start the Lamictal.
He is taking 1,000mg now of the Depakote ER formula, all in the morning. I don't really know how it is advised to wean that. How did you do it? Right now the focus is pretty much on weaning the Lithium. I'm not sure it would be wise to wean both at the same time. My nerves are not that good, lol.
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Post by 2pearl on Nov 13, 2006 17:52:43 GMT -5
DS was taking 1000mg depakote at night. I just kept dropping it by 250mg every 10 days. I know you're not supposed to do this but I did cut the depakote ER's in half. I figured since we were actually trying to reduce the dose it didn't matter so much. Anyway, it worked.
I can see your point about the depakote. It's at least worth a shot to see if the Lamictal does the trick completely. Goodness knows, the fewer meds these kids have to take, the better. You can always add it back.
Good luck with weaning the Lithium. Why are you BTW? I thought it was working pretty well.
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Post by ohmama on Nov 13, 2006 18:42:11 GMT -5
The Lithium was working till we had to add a thyroid med. It seems that Lithium is famous for causing thyroid problems. The thyroid med (Synthyroid) activated him and caused him to be very unstable, like a stimulant would. The only way to stop it was to wean the Lithium so there would be no need for the thyroid med since this was causing all the problems. He was also having very bad hand tremors from the Lithium so it's just as well that we stop it.
I agree that it would be so much better if he could take as few meds as possible. I still think that the Depakote is causing cognitive dulling and would like to see if he can do without it. I have lots of the 250mg size that I could use to wean with. Will see how it goes.
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Post by zachsmom on Nov 14, 2006 23:25:14 GMT -5
ohmama, I have to take thyroid med. Mine was recently upped and it took me awhile to figure out what was making me so crazy. I was on the lowest dose of 25 mcgs. and was raised to 50. Unfortunately there is nothing in between and I am having to cut those little pills into quarters. I have not been diagnosed with any mood disorders. But going from 25 to 50 mcgs. made me extremely irritable and mean in the afternoon. Your thyroid controls a lot of things/cells in your body. I thought Lithium actually can do permanent damage though to your thyroid? I did not know that you could just stop it and it would go back to normal. I hope that is the case though for your ds's sake.
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Post by zachsmom on Nov 14, 2006 23:30:10 GMT -5
I forgot to mention that I tried my son out on Lithium Orotate. It is a natural supplement that is available over the counter. It definitely had a calming effect on my son. I am currently giving him 2 tabs a day - 1 am/1 p.m. I had to start him back on the Abilify as well unfortunately. His social life completely fell apart while he was off of it - both at school and in the neighborhood. He was off everything for 6 weeks and his grades went up at school, but his behavioral marks did not - they went down.
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Post by 2pearl on Nov 15, 2006 10:22:34 GMT -5
zachsmom- that is so interesting that his grades went up while being off everything. Why do you think that is?
ohmama- the psych told me yesterday that for the final weaning of the 250mg depakote, I should give it to him every other day for two weeks before dropping it altogether.
He also said that depakote and Lamictal are a very unique combination of meds. It is not uncommon at all for them to be used together. He said they are both processed by the liver in exactly the same way and "travel the same road" and for that reason have a very significant impact on the other when given together. I'm not explaining that correctly I'm sure, he did mention a lot of technical details that went right over my head. But I just thought I'd mention it since you are concerned about giving both meds together. This doc is as young as you can possibly be and be a child psych, I swear he's just a kid. But this is precisely why I like him. He is absolutely fascinated by the complexity of medicating DS and spends so much time studying the different meds and how they work. He's really trying to figure this out.
He said that once we stop the depakote, the Lamictal will possibly start working differently, hopefully even better. And then once we get him where we want him with the Lamictal we will start working on the ADHD symptoms once again.
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Post by ohmama on Nov 15, 2006 11:40:05 GMT -5
Zachsmom,
If the thyroid was normal before taking Lithium and you stop the Lithium I am told by the endo and the psych that it should return to normal. It would make sense that much would depend on how long you took the Lithium though I don't know if it can cause permanent damage. I think any med taken for a long time has that potential. I hear so many parents of Lithium users seem to think nothing of giving thyroid meds and keeping the Lithium in place. I always found that disturbing.
We tried the pharmaceutical grade Lithium Orotate as found in health food stores and found it to be useless despite the claims that it is more bio-available than the standard prescribed Lithium Carbonate. It would have been nice if it was effective but there is much evidence that it does not cross the blood/brain barrier. Once we went to the Rx of the Carbonate the results were amazing but I soon discovered that all good things do come to their end and the thyroid problem emerged.
Pearl,
Thanks for the info. It sounds like your doctor is being very cautious when it comes to weaning Depakote and that is great.
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Post by Mayleng on Nov 15, 2006 16:31:45 GMT -5
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Post by ohmama on Nov 16, 2006 14:18:35 GMT -5
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Post by Mayleng on Nov 16, 2006 14:53:26 GMT -5
Thanks Ohmama. BP has been overlooked in terms of how to educate them. I am going to post these links at schwab. They have a few Bpers there having a lot of problems with schools.
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Post by 2pearl on Dec 10, 2006 19:06:18 GMT -5
ohmama hows it going with the topamax?
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Post by ohmama on Dec 11, 2006 12:57:42 GMT -5
He is completely off the Lithium now. I couldn't believe how easy it was to do it! We started on Topamax and by the second day he was showing improvement. Now, he is doing even better on it with NO SIDE EFFECTS! I never thought it would work this well or this fast, and as you know, I was ready to start on the Lamactal. As a rule the mood stabilizers take quite a while before you can see results but this Tompamax is amazing. I sure hope this continues. If not, the Rx for Lamactal is there when and if I need it.
I hope you are having good results too? How's it going?
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Post by Mayleng on Dec 11, 2006 13:56:33 GMT -5
 Ohmama, I am sooooo happy things are going well for your son. frontclap*
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Post by 2pearl on Dec 11, 2006 15:41:06 GMT -5
I am soooo glad! Improvement on the 2nd day? Thats amazing!
Everything is going great here as well. The Lamictal is working so well that it makes me feel guilty about how long he was obviously on the wrong med. He has lost all the depakote weight and seems like himself for the first time in a long, long while. He has had no side effects at all.
Anyway, knock on wood!
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Post by Mayleng on Dec 11, 2006 15:48:33 GMT -5
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Post by ohmama on Dec 11, 2006 17:17:59 GMT -5
Pearl,
I'm so glad to hear your boy is doing well! I know what you mean about sticking too long with the wrong med. I hung on to the Lithium too long and accepted the side effects because I was scared stiff to make the move to try something else.
Thank you Mayleng. It does feel like I'm ready for an overdue break. Life is good ;D!
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Post by 2pearl on Jan 29, 2007 21:57:23 GMT -5
ohmama, I saw on tchrmoms thread that your son is off the topamax. What happened? I hope all is well.
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Post by ohmama on Jan 29, 2007 22:07:57 GMT -5
We had to stop Topamax because of side effects. It was working so well for a while there that I felt spoiled. It was like having a normal child! Then all of a sudden, without warning he was having vision problems and was feeling like he was going to throw up all the time.
When we stopped it (slowly weaning) he improved almost immediately. Now we are back to him taking only the Depakote and Seroquel. I wanted to go with the Lamacital after the Topamax failed and the psych gave me an Rx for it but my insurance company called it a "special pharmaceutical" and wanted a $120. co-pay.
He seems to be doing alright now. Not great but stable at least. When he gets upset he is able to get over it quickly. He is still showing some anxiety but seems able to handle it mostly.
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Post by 2pearl on Jan 30, 2007 9:33:54 GMT -5
interesting about the feeling of needing to throw up all the time. One of the worst side effects we had with the abilify was an oversensitive gag reflex. All anyone had to do was blow their nose while he was eating and he would throw up.
I can't understand the "special pharmaceutical" thing. I wonder how they figure it's any different from a med like depakote? Anyway, I'm glad to hear he's doing alright.
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Post by mom33 on Jan 23, 2008 17:24:38 GMT -5
Hi just testing.
Mom33 from schwab
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Post by Mayleng on Jan 23, 2008 17:43:16 GMT -5
Mom33.
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Post by healthy11 on Jan 19, 2009 10:14:06 GMT -5
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Post by ohmama on Jan 30, 2009 21:26:51 GMT -5
Here's a good link showing bipolar vs. adhd symptoms with charted details that was posted over at the bpkids site by Kathy Craig.... www.johnalstonmd.com/article1.html#topKeep in mind that it is not unusual for a kid (or even adult) to have both adhd and bipolar. |
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