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Post by teacherabc on Apr 26, 2014 23:32:50 GMT -5
I couldn't find the old thread and it has been awhile anyway.
HP has finally reached bottom, or at least bottom enough that it has forced him to make some decisions. No matter how much I spoke to him, I couldn't convince him that this wasn't the right time for school. Of course I couldn't, because I was helping him too much and it took me too long to figure that out. So, this semester, I have been staying out of things for the most part, helping him when he came around to ask but not offering assistance. It has propelled certain things--he is failing two of four classes and only one is a safe bet. He has finally decided that he needs to take a break from school. We haven't yet figured out what he is going to do. However, while I was in Italy taking a well deserved vacation (something I would have felt guilty doing in the past), he said he was in bed almost the whole time. That and some other things tell me he is even more depressed than usual. He revealed thoughts that he wasn't sure why he was doing all this (school) because he wasn't sure that he wanted to do what he had set out to do anyway and whether he could and whether getting the degree was going to help him make a living at all. I think, in a way, he has finally come around to thinking that he needs to take a breather to decide whether continuing at some point down the road would even make sense or whether he needs to pursue another path.
The immediate plan so far is to finish the two classes he may pass, and make an appointment with the advisement office to see how best to leave under the most favorable circumstances. He has also agreed to let me tip off his therapist because he is having a hard time admitting his failures. He will reestablish contact with ACCESS VR in the summer. He is hoping to try and find a job, whether it is part time or full time, stocking shelves or anything else he can find. There is an organization called REDCAP that I am hoping to connect him with that provides vocational services to people with disabilities.
Strangely, not only am I okay with all this, but I am actually very relieved and at peace. I have been waiting for the other shoe to drop for so long and I feel like it is finally like I feel we can move on.
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Post by healthy11 on Apr 29, 2014 20:07:42 GMT -5
I know it's been stressful over the past few years. I'm glad that HP is allowing you to tip off his therapist, because it tells me that he is still talking to you, and at least willing to see the therapist again. He already has his associate's degree, and that's an accomplishment he can still be proud of. I do believe that obtaining some kind of real work experience is a vital step in terms of any young person's development, and hopefully it will help give HP a better sense of direction in his life.
On a different note, how is your daughter doing in her schooling? Does she have an internship or some other plans for the summer?
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Post by teacherabc on May 2, 2014 5:40:31 GMT -5
My daughter is doing great. She is majoring in Environmental Science and minoring in economics. This semester is a challenge for her. This summer, she is going to be participating in several travel programs--the honors program she's in gives $7,100 for these programs and it was use it or lose it. So, she will be 1) going to Bermuda to work with dolphins, 2) Going to Maine for...I forget what, and 3) Going to Morocco for a month to learn Arabic. I am hoping that if I am not working, to meet her in Morocco. She will also be studying for the GRE's. She is planning to go for a Master's in Geology right after college. This means, though, we will be losing her geographically because all of the good schools for this are far away (Colorado, Texas and California) but tend to pay a lot of money toward tuition...  |
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Post by healthy11 on May 3, 2014 9:29:10 GMT -5
What wonderful experiences and memories she's making! Safe travels to all!
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Post by teacherabc on May 17, 2014 20:22:22 GMT -5
About to engage in some tough love. HP is pretty much hitting bottom as we speak. While he is making it look to the world like he his finishing out the semester, he has pretty much given up. More to the point, he has gone on wild spending sprees and has gone through all his money and is now on ours--he wound up being overdrawn before we realized it. He now has about $85 in his account (which is really our money) and is busy avoiding us because he doesn't want to have the conversation about his life that he knows we want to have. I know that when he goes through that $85, my husband is going to be afraid he will starve and I will have to tell him to not transfer anything--if he doesn't want to do anything, even contact us, then he will have to figure out some solution that will involve something other than our money.
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Post by michellea on May 19, 2014 9:00:10 GMT -5
Hi teacherabc - glad to hear from you again. High five to your daughter. It sounds like she is taking every advantage given to her and making the most of it. Her summer plans sound thrilling! What an education.
So sorry to hear about HP's ongoing struggles. It does sound that the pattern is repeating itself, but that you are in a place that allows you to leave the responsibility and consequences to him. As Healthy says, he certainly can be proud of his AS degree, and maybe some job experience is just what he needs to continue to grow and develop the strategies and habits he needs to live a more stable and independent life. He had a very tough start, and thanks to your guidance has made some important strides. Unfortunately, he has a way to go to replace maladaptive behaviors with more positive ones. Taking time from school may give him the opportunity and less stressful environment to do so.
Keep us posted - again kudos to your daughter.
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Post by teacherabc on May 20, 2014 5:41:01 GMT -5
He is not reacting well--he is simply avoiding the whole situation. Sooner or later his money will run out but he is afraid to face the consequences. My hope is that his brother isn't going to influence him to do illegal things to try and "improve" his financial situation.
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Post by healthy11 on May 20, 2014 12:35:29 GMT -5
If you do decide to provide him with any additional assistance, I would buy groceries, and not give him any cash that could be used for non-essential items. (When I visit my elderly aunt, I drive through an area with a number of individuals who have cardboard signs asking for money to "feed their families, etc." An area homeless shelter actually suggested giving them sandwiches, apples, etc. rather than cash, to be sure they don't buy alcohol or drugs or cigarettes or whatever else is their addiction, and really get some nutritious food.) You may need to do the same for HP.
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Post by teacherabc on May 21, 2014 18:24:41 GMT -5
Definitely a point. Now, it's not an issue. He is not speaking to me. I think he afraid to face us. So he has been using his food stamps and probably not eating much and not spending anything. I think he also has been out a lot and the concern is that he is asking his brother for help because his brother keeps telling him he knows about jobs. However, I am sure these are not legit and I am just praying that HP isn't following bad advice.
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Post by teacherabc on May 23, 2014 7:50:12 GMT -5
Finally, he came around. I think he was scared and embarrassed. He seems more receptive to thinking about long term, not just short term. He wants to finish his incompletes--not sure how fruitful that is, but he has had a good track record of doing that (a couple of teachers remarked that he was one of a few students that actually did finish the incompletes and in a timely fashion). Then, he agreed that we would sit down and try and figure out what SSA allows in terms of working or training and not put his benefits at risk. He still has dreams of going back to school in a year but knows that it may only be a dream. We may need to sit down with SSA and talk to them, but that isn't going to happen until after my school year ends and he can't do it himself. He is willing now to consider trying to get into some type of supportive housing situation and I am going to arrange a tour of a place called Fountain House--I went there once and it seemed okay but he wasn't receptive, but I am trying to arrange a tour of that. I was looking at Common Ground but they require a Section 8 voucher and there is no chance of getting that. The problem is, there are lots more housing options for people with mental disabilities but only if you have been in the shelter system and I really would rather avoid that because he wouldn't do well there and I don't know how long someone has to be in one before they get preferences.
Does anyone know anything about housing options and/or SSA rules for working? I don't want him to put things at risk but I also don't want him just sitting around doing nothing.
For me, this is positive. I don't mind helping him try and find resources--other professionals to help him secure more affordable housing, jobs, etc. It is a hell of a lot better than sitting around doing nothing and getting nowhere.
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Post by bros on May 23, 2014 10:51:46 GMT -5
Finally, he came around. I think he was scared and embarrassed. He seems more receptive to thinking about long term, not just short term. He wants to finish his incompletes--not sure how fruitful that is, but he has had a good track record of doing that (a couple of teachers remarked that he was one of a few students that actually did finish the incompletes and in a timely fashion). Then, he agreed that we would sit down and try and figure out what SSA allows in terms of working or training and not put his benefits at risk. He still has dreams of going back to school in a year but knows that it may only be a dream. We may need to sit down with SSA and talk to them, but that isn't going to happen until after my school year ends and he can't do it himself. He is willing now to consider trying to get into some type of supportive housing situation and I am going to arrange a tour of a place called Fountain House--I went there once and it seemed okay but he wasn't receptive, but I am trying to arrange a tour of that. I was looking at Common Ground but they require a Section 8 voucher and there is no chance of getting that. The problem is, there are lots more housing options for people with mental disabilities but only if you have been in the shelter system and I really would rather avoid that because he wouldn't do well there and I don't know how long someone has to be in one before they get preferences. Does anyone know anything about housing options and/or SSA rules for working? I don't want him to put things at risk but I also don't want him just sitting around doing nothing. For me, this is positive. I don't mind helping him try and find resources--other professionals to help him secure more affordable housing, jobs, etc. It is a hell of a lot better than sitting around doing nothing and getting nowhere. 1. You need to tell the SSA that he is no longer in college if so. 2. Since he is on SSI, he qualifies for Section 8. If you don't want to deal with that stuff, contact an association like Easter Seals - they may have group housing nearby, or recommendations. 3. SSA has very specific rules for working. If he earns over $750 in a month, it activates his Trial Work Period - You are only allowed to keep SSI for 9 months of a Trial Work Period, and they don't have to be 9 months consecutive, just anytime in a rolling five year period. |
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Post by teacherabc on May 23, 2014 11:08:04 GMT -5
Section 8 is closed to new applicants right now. From the website.
Can I apply for a Section 8 voucher?
NYCHA is not currently accepting applications. When NYCHA begins accepting applications, there will be a public notice and you may apply based on that notice’s requirement. NYCHA is not accepting emergency applications. NYCHA is currently only accepting referrals from the Veteran’s Administration (VA) for the VASH program.
There are other programs, such as Fountain House, that has housing for people with mental illness, and we will be pursuing them.
I am aware of the SSI regs. However, it may be more complicated. My intention is to help HP get linked to a social service agency that can guide him. It may be that it would be better for him to work part time for a while (i.e. not trigger the trial work period)--it would give him some experience, some extra money, while he gets his feet under him. Frankly, while I want him to work--nothing would be gained from him jeopardizing his benefits while he may not be fully set up (mentally, etc) to work substantially. I really want to get him involved with an agency that can help him. There is Fountain House. There is another one in Harlem that has all sorts of workshops and groups and I think some of what he needs to is to be out in the world, however, that happens--with people and agencies that provide support. I want him to be busy with things that will help him--it will keep him from spending time with his brother, and just sleeping all day. About the most constructive thing he does is hang with his cousin, who, mercifully, is not someone who gets in trouble.
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Post by bros on May 23, 2014 12:21:09 GMT -5
If he is a client of vocational rehab and following an IPE, he is also not subject to certain regulations
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 3, 2014 10:40:28 GMT -5
Section 8 has been closed to new applicants since 2009. I have been looking for social service agencies that provide services to people with mental illness. I have a few, one of which is Fountain House. It has both on site and off site housing with varying levels of support. Does anyone know anything about Fountain House?
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Post by healthy11 on Jun 3, 2014 16:29:18 GMT -5
I don't know about Fountain House, but I modified the title of your discussion to call attention to the question. You can choose to change the title of your threads, too, by clicking on the "Edit" box on the upper right side of the post.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 5, 2014 17:17:13 GMT -5
I was able to reach out to a friend of a friend who works for Legal Aid and he reached out to colleagues and the feedback was generally good. I made an appointment to bring him in on June 30th. In order to qualify, he needs to either be referred by ACCESS-VR or by the Mood Disorders Support Group at Beth Israel (there are other categories but be doesn't fall into any of them). He had difficulties with ACCESS-VR (the counselor there is a pain) and hasn't gone back. So now, I have to persuade him to go back. The problem is that she has a harsh tone that he doesn't respond well to and she gets mad when I reach out to her because in her view, he has to reach out for himself. I understand that this is what she wants him to do, but obviously, he is in decline. He is coming to dinner tonight and I need to talk to him about all of this. I am hoping to persuade him to go to the support group. There is one for family and friends of people with mood disorders and I am figuring that if I offer to go with him and go to that support group (they are all held at once), I can get him to go.
I also called CUCS, which is a clearinghouse for housing support services and they said that an application can be completed for supportive housing by his service provider (i.e. counselor). I am going to tell him to talk to his therapist tomorrow.
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Post by empeg1 on Jun 5, 2014 22:17:35 GMT -5
Section 8 is a joke. One colleague of mine has a daughter who is on a waiting list for Section 8 for 5 years. The waiting list now is 15 years. Where I live, the wait is now up to 10 years. Forget that! It just shows you how our society deals with those who are poor. In the Bay Area rent is so high that one cannot work minimum wage and afford any place, not even a room or a bed in a room. I know I have brought this up before, but given the history of drugs in HP's family and instability, there is an extremely high risk that he has a FASD. That means that requiring him to call for himself or even thinking that way is a set up for HP to work with that person. This reminds me of my experience with the county mental health program where I live and my dd. I called the access line, got a therapist, told her, that yes, I can talk to her no matter HIPPA laws and then the trouble began. In order to see a psychiatrist, my dd would have to do a phone interview with a therapist, go into the main office for a financial appointment, meet with a therapist, and then wait 4 months to see the doc. When I explained that my dd has brain damage and she cannot do all those steps, I was told, "Well your daughter will just have to cooperate if she wants help".
The person to whom you have spoken and the idiot therapist above have a mindset that is impossible for some individuals. HP is one. My dd is another. To demand that he does simply will set him up for 1) failure 2) further blame. Not helpful at all! My guess, you can call Access-VR and demand another counselor, one that might have a clue. I do NOT blame HP for saying he will not go back!
Our country does a damn poor job of providing support, a safety need and therapy for people who have a mental illness and do not have $$$$. It is a national shame how the most vulnerable are throw away people. Then we wring our hand when tragedies happen such as the latest one, at UCSB, where a student killed 6 other students. The parents had called the police, the university counseling center, the boy's psychiatrist, and no one did anything, not until all those kids were dead, including the shooter.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 6, 2014 12:11:16 GMT -5
Actually, Empeg, drug use hasn't been a huge problem in HP's family, outside of some marijuana, and not even much of that. Alcohol has been more of a problem. But the person who was his counselor doesn't understand that for him to make phone calls takes a Herculean effort, he gets so scared. Fountain House completely understood why I was calling instead of him but this idiot doesn't understand. The reason he was reluctant to go back is that he still harbors hope he can go back to school and he is concerned they wouldn't approve that my husband told h that if he gets himself into a position to go back, it doesn't matter if they approve it. They weren't giving him any more money. He is going to get help with housing and case management and they can help him figure out the rest. Fortunately, she is a supervisor (bad if something happens but good in the day to day sense because we will deal with someone else.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 21, 2014 22:36:13 GMT -5
Some little bits of progress with HP. We have the appointment with Fountain House. We also have another appointment with another promising social service agency in East Harlem the day after that. He also made an appointment with the primary care physician to get a physical. I have also gotten him to start going to a support group for young people with mood disorders. The side benefit to that is that I got him to go by going to one for family and friends, so now we both go together to our separate groups. He is also now working out with weights and bike riding (yes, we bought him the bike as a very late birthday gift, but he is using it). The side benefit to that is that I am finally learning to ride a bike because he and my best friend want to go riding with me. I am trying to take care of myself. It is the end of the school year and work is letting up. I am not working this summer--focusing on finding HP an agency and taking care of myself: bike riding, getting outside and enjoying things in the city--the zoo, museums, etc.
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Post by healthy11 on Jun 22, 2014 13:41:28 GMT -5
Physical exercise is a great thing for you as well as HP! (Are you saying you never knew how to ride a bicycle before, or that you hadn't gotten on one since your childhood, and are now learning navigate "around town" with your bike, using it as an actual means of transportation?)
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 22, 2014 17:20:53 GMT -5
I never really learned to ride, although I did do it a little bit as a child. It is a little embarrassing. I think HP is going to use it as more transportation since it will save him trainfare. He will probably use it when he comes over and he hopes to actually use it when he goes to his cousin's house, which is quite a distance. We have actually all been working out with weights (HP does it when he comes over, which has been two or three times a week).
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Post by healthy11 on Jun 22, 2014 18:06:57 GMT -5
Better to learn late than never! Especially since you've mentioned previously that you don't drive a car, nor does HP, bicycling seems like an excellent activity, both for exercise and transport. To minimize possible head injury if you fall, I hope you're wearing a helmet.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 22, 2014 22:41:32 GMT -5
Yep. And we told HP he has to wear a helmet...
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Post by kewpie on Jun 23, 2014 9:50:35 GMT -5
SSA has a ticket to work program and a PASS account. A pass account is a separate money account where a SSI client can save money without losing SSI for several years. There is paperwork to be filled out and there must be a goal for the saved money such as for school or a business. it has to be something that will improve the future outcome for the client. It also avoids SSA "reviews" on the qualifications of the client. In my area, the dept of rehab had people that were knowledgeable and could instruct the client.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 30, 2014 21:51:40 GMT -5
We spoke to Fountain House today. HP was a little leery because it has a range of people from those with schizophrenia to those with depression. I think he was a little leery about the people we saw who obviously had schizophrenia. On the other hand, he liked the emphasis on work there (it gets you experience) and the transitional work program, as well as the back-to-school program which is just beginning. We are going to another agency tomorrow and see what that is like. However, one of the best things thus far, in addition to him riding the bike, is that the support group is taking hold. When he first went he said, "Those people seem crazy." The second week, he seemed a little more positive or at least mixed. Last week, when I couldn't go, he attended on his own, without me having to prod him, and he said, "Most of the people seem like me." And he has started to tell me some of the things that he has heard and wondered. He has had so much of an emphasis on the ADHD, thinking that was the root of the depression. I have tried to tell him that maybe if he spoke to the doctor about his depression, and dealt with that, the ADHD might not be as big of an issue. This has fallen on deaf ears. But now that he has heard this in the support group, he is coming around to the possibility that he should look into this. I have known for a while that he needed to hear this from someone other than me but wasn't sure who...
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Post by healthy11 on Jun 30, 2014 22:40:53 GMT -5
It's so good to hear you sharing some encouraging news about HP. We hope his situation continues to improve.
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Post by teacherabc on Jul 15, 2014 8:46:46 GMT -5
There are always hiccups...as drama unfolds in my own family (my father-in-law nearly died, underwent emergency surgery on June 27th and is only going to be transferred out of the ICU this week), drama again unfolds in HP's life...his older sister (who I am convinced has the same bipolar disorder mom has) threatened HP and his friend with violence. HP is angrier than I have ever seen in his life, to the point that I am concerned that if this sister takes any kind of action on her threat, HP will do something to get himself thrown in jail. On the positive side, HP is recognizing his own anger and difficulty in talking about it (he raised the issue with me by showing me an article on the internet about anger and depression) and said that it would be a good idea for me to email his psychiatrist and therapist about what happened, which I did. I am just hoping that the psychiatrist gets it this morning because his appointment is at 1:30 today. So, I guess the positive is that he obviously wants help in handling his anger. He has also make a choice about which agency to try--Fountain House--which I agree with, but he is going to ask the doctor to complete both forms in case one doesn't work out. Fountain House's focus is on employment and that sort of transition rather than housing, but they do deal with it and it just seems more organized and more focused on the upbeat. In addition, especially now, the other place is located near where the sister lives and I would just as soon keep him out of that neighborhood.
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Post by teacherabc on Jul 15, 2014 12:40:17 GMT -5
I am confused. HP wanted me to come into his appointment with the psychiatrist. He just flat out said no. At the place he used to go upstate, when I came once in a blue moon, the doctor would meet with HP for a little while alone and then call me in. Same with the doctor in the city before that I am wondering why, what he is afraid of.
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Post by healthy11 on Jul 15, 2014 18:03:45 GMT -5
Is the older sister the one who has several babies? (I guess they're probably toddlers or preschoolers by now) ~ If she threatens HP (who you've described as a BIG guy) with violence, I can only wonder how she deals with her own children. Is she living with their father, or with her own dysfunctional mother? In either case, the kids aren't likely to grow up well-adjusted, since they have no idea what a neurotypical upbringing is like. It's amazing HP has come as far as he has.
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Post by teacherabc on Jul 15, 2014 22:13:55 GMT -5
None of them have several babies. One is younger and the older one has one child but she leaves the child with anybody and everyone. She is living in an apartment with family friends. HP knows them and went there on Saturday night because he was stuck in the city and wanted a place to stay. The sister was there and went on a rampage and made the threats. He is still so angry.
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