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Post by chiaroscuro on May 1, 2011 7:38:15 GMT -5
Thanks empeg,
I am concerned about these results because the SLP will be making suggestions for accommodations to the school. Before we started the test she said "You would be surprised how many parents come in here and think their children are visual learners but when the results come in they usually aren't." I had never told her I thought my son was a visual learner but I know she had talked to the school twice before the tests.
I told her that I don't agree with this part of the test from what I see at home and school and asked how he could do so well on the other nonverbal measures and she said maybe he is just good with puzzles and Lego's. She went on to tell me about a young man who was like this and he dropped out of school and went into landscaping and found his niche.
I am not sure what went on in the test but am I wrong to think that if "they" thought my son was actively having seizures during the tests that he may of been missing some of the directions, confused and drained? Also is it possible for a visual spatial learner to have difficulty with visual memory?
empeg, I know you are a SLP from reading other posts, would you please check back after I have the name of the test she administered & the results? I do agree that my son has word retrieval difficulties. Can word retrieval problems be found alone or are they usually found in combination with other language disorders? I would really appreciate your point of view and expertise in this area. I need all the perspectives I can get.
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Post by momfromma on May 1, 2011 8:48:16 GMT -5
OK. While I would check on these visual learner/ not visual learner things with more tests, I dont like the fact that your SLP gave you the example of somebody who dropped out of school as if she meant your son cannot succeed in school (We have been told that so often when ds was about your son's age).
I would not dismiss the possibility he is not a visual learner. Some kids have great skills recognizing patterns, and organizing what they can see, but their way to store visual information is weak (my son is one of those). The test you describe sounds like the WRAML. There may be other tests allowing you to get more information, but I dont know any. There are so many things going on here, and his weak score could come from so many things (we used to say ds scores could change with the weather, as a coming storm can make him worry so much he cannot focus on anything else. So, yes, if your son was spooked by the mirror, he may have been unfocused).
I also dont understand, if they think he had seizures during the test, why they dont tell you to see a neurologist before making a diagnostic. It certainly can skew the results.
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Post by healthy11 on May 1, 2011 8:52:37 GMT -5
"Also is it possible for a visual spatial learner to have difficulty with visual memory?"
Yes. My son is about as "visual spatial" as you can get (as a teen, he scored 19 on the Block Design subtest of the WISC) but I can attest that he's got memory problems in virtually every realm. I don't know how much of that has to do with his also having ADHD, but virtually every day he'll ask, "Have you seen my abc?" or say, "I can't find xyz." Items can range from things he doesn't care much about to items he definitely does, such as his cell phone and wallet and favorite clothing (ie, t-shirts he took off and are still laying on the floor in his bedroom.) In almost every case, the items are exactly where he left them, but he doesn't remember putting them there.
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Post by michellea on May 1, 2011 8:52:41 GMT -5
Just a thought about visual vs auditory vs kinesthetic learners. While it might be important to understand relative strengths and weaknesses in the different learning styles, most all people (especially struggling learners) benefit from a multi-sensory approach. So, even if one was primarily auditory, it would aide and accelerate learning for that person, by augmenting instruction with visual models and hands on experiences. The thought is that this multi-model learning helps the learner to better attach and integrate the new information to what they already know. This helps them make sense of it and remember it. It also helps to stream the new information into the brain using many pathways - again enhancing the chance that it will click with prior knowledge and will be better stored and then retrieved in memory.
Certainly if a child has a language issue, the school should not rely on auditory teaching as the sole method of delivery. But, at the same time, the school needs to use the auditory mode to help strengthen skill in this area and to augment other areas of strength.
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Post by chiaroscuro on May 1, 2011 13:01:42 GMT -5
Thank you, I agree with all of you. I really have no preference for what type of learner he is, and I know it is going to be paramount in devising a learning strategy to help nurture his strengths and remediate his weaknesses. I have been trying to employ some new things at home :like we made him a phonics phone out of PVC pipe so he can listen to himself read, talk and my husband also made a longer attachment that can be used for us to talk, play and read together. I was told that this could help strengthen the auditory cortex. I also bought him a radio/microphone so he can record himself singing(which he has great difficulty with words, keeping up,or just has a continuous stream of mumbles) reading, making up stories. Because we definitely know he has language difficulties I am hopeful it will help him to become more aware of his own speech patterns in a less obtrusive way. eoffg has also given me wonderful advice and ideas on how to improve his "self talk". We have also been doing exercises with visualizing and then drawing(which he loves) what we saw and comparing our pictures. His new favorite thing to do is test himself (and me unfortunately using a calculator. He loves math but is painfully slow on timed facts but is excellent with problem solving. healthy, my children all have issues with organization and executive function with the exception of my oldest daughter and the mornings before school are utter chaos "wheres my" shoes,book bags, glasses etc. Their rooms -no matter how many times cleaned up by the end of the day look like a tornado went through. They are very creative (which I wouldn't change) BUT use things like crayons, pencils and even pencil shavings for roads that stretch the whole length of the floor, buildings, even indian reservations the shavings are tipis .... It is very exhausting. If anyone has any suggestions on multisensory teaching ideas that have helped their children I would love to hear them. I do think that since his learning profile at this point is vague, it may be better to give him information while incorporating all the different learning modes. I appreciate the time you all have taken and I wish I had found this site early on.
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Post by eoffg on May 2, 2011 2:55:53 GMT -5
You wrote that the SLP "would show him a picture of a crowd of people doing certain things, then she would take it away, make him wait a minute, and then on a new picture x out anything that had moved, appeared or changed. Then she would show him shapes in a certain configurations, again take it away for a minute, and ask him to draw them accurately in the same squares they were in.
This is rather a test for a photographic memory? Images are retained in visual working memory for at best, 2 to 3 seconds. Then they are cleared from memory, unless they are continually refreshed/ revisualised in the mind. After a minute, we would at best have a trace of the image, but all the detail would have disappeared. Unless one has a photographic memory. I would be very sceptical of the SLP's conclusions.
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Post by chiaroscuro on May 5, 2011 10:08:31 GMT -5
Thanks eoffg,
From what I have read The WRAML(which I am still unsure if this is the test she used, sounds indentical) says the delay should be no longer than 10 seconds and my husband and I both agree the delay was longer(closer to 30 sec.) but to be fair I was not looking at the clock and seconds can feel longer in these types of situations. I also found this part of the test difficult in relation to the delay.
My son was also being a little impulsive, as he kept reaching for the pencil and she kept repeating "wait, not yet, a little longer etc.". He also would only glance at the pictures and say he was ready and she would have to remind him to look a little longer.
I am sure ADD (as well as other conditions) could also look like absence seizures and complicate the interpretation of the results.The SLP said she does not suspect ADHD from his disposition throughout the testing and also doesn't feel he is on the spectrum.
At this point, I feel more testing will be necessary before making conclusions and will feel much better about how to move forward after ruling out possible medical conditions.
I'll post the results when I have them. Thanks, everyone
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Post by temomma on May 7, 2011 14:43:12 GMT -5
I told her that I don't agree with this part of the test from what I see at home and school and asked how he could do so well on the other nonverbal measures and she said maybe he is just good with puzzles and Lego's. She went on to tell me about a young man who was like this and he dropped out of school and went into landscaping and found his niche. I have bad feeling about your SLP, very bad feeling. keep in mind, that your son is too young to make conclusion about CAPD or not CAPD. Leave some room for corrections. I 'd like to pinpoint the known problem to recognize left/right by kids with dyslexia. And his "seizure" could be just embarrassment, when he lost time and information. did you think about it?
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Post by chiaroscuro on May 9, 2011 20:54:02 GMT -5
Hi everyone.
I got the results today (it's a 14 page report) so I'll do my best to give the scores.
Normal hearing sensitivity for pure tones and speech bilaterally as well as good word recognition ability bilaterally.
Scan-3
Gap Detection Test-not given due to age
Auditory Figure Ground+8(A.F.G.) SS= 11 63% normal
Competing Words Free Recall SS=10 50% normal
Filter Words Test SS= 12 75% normal
Competing Words Directed Ear test SS=5 5% borderline
Competing Sentence subtest SS= 5 % borderline Ear advantage scores =Right Ear Advantage extreme 15%
Supplementary test Scan-3 A.F.G at +0 signal to noise ratio score 3=1% disordered
Time compressed Sentences score 5= 5% borderline
Dichotic Digits right ear 80% left ear 72.5 %
Pitch pattern was not given due to age
ACPT (Auditory Continuous Performance Test Age 7 criterion scores are 32 errors or more)
score= 61 errors (39 inattention 22 impulsivity) which included putting his thumb up in response to a different word instead of target word or leave his thumb up. (Was noted multiple staring spells)
A Vigilance Decrement Difference of 15 was observed which is outside normal range placing him at the extreme 1 %
Further testing is recommended for monitoring
Language processing WRAML-2
summary data
Verbal Memory Sum of scaled scores =21 VMI= 102 55%
Visual Memory Sum of scaled scores = 8 Visual memory index =63 %1
Attention/Concentration Sum of scaled scores =22 ACI=102 66%
General Memory Sum of scaled scores =51 GMI= 87 19%
Verbal Recognition Sum of scaled scores =19 VRI= 96 39%
Visual Recognition Sum of scaled scores =10 Visual Recognition Index= 68 2%
General Recognition Sum of scaled scores =29 GRI = 80 9%
WRAML-2 SUBTESTS Story Memory 11 Verbal Learning 10 Design Memory 6 Picture Memory 2 Finger Windows 12 Number Letter 10
delay recall subtests Story Memory Recall 10 Verbal Learning Recall 10
recognition subtests Story Recognition 12 Verbal Learn. Recognition 7 Design Recognition 3 Picture Mem. Recognition 7
Notes: Observation- He was cooperative & compliant. He was fidgety in the beginning but as test progressed it decreased. He commented on things he saw within the room(the mirror) as well as in the testing booklets.
Over all he evidenced verbal memory, learning and recognition skills within normal limits. In contrast, he evidenced severe deficits with visual learning, memory and recognition tasks. He appeared to be overwhelmed by the visual information and appeared more concerned with the minutia of the visual info rather than the "whole" On the visual subtests (design Memory and Picture Memory) he was very precise in drawing the shapes that he saw but was only able to draw one or two of the designs. He had difficulty determining what had been moved, added or changed in picture memory. Midway through each task he asked for clarification, and it should also be noted that he responded most accurately on the last two pages of each subtest. Clinician also noted that he appeared overwhelmed when handed the four page response booklet prior to either of these tasks. It is not clear if his difficulties on these recognition subtests was related to difficulties understanding the task.
"A staring spell" was also noted during the story memory subtest. (midway through the story for the duration of four sentences.) When he retold the story he did not mention any of those components in the retelling. After delay and several intervening tasks again he made no mention of any of the items that were presented during the "staring spell". During all other parts was Quite attentive.
TWF-2 (The Test of Word Finding-second edition)
Raw score was 37, Standard Score of 73 falling at the 3%rank Notes: He evidences moderate-severe word finding retrieval skills on formal and informal measures.
Word finding difficulties were also noted in wraml-2(ex. protection he said attection, he referred to lunch as dinner, five pounds as five feet.) On the TWF-2 He often said "I forget" or "I don't know" on other occasions responded with words that were semantically related to target words like boat for submarine, cloak for cape. He would also say words that sounded like target but were not true words like catuses for cactus, exulator for calculator. Or rearrange words for example for pineapple he said applepine.
There was so much here to sift through it was difficult to know what to write. Any ideas on the scores and interpretations? Sorry for the long post.
Thanks temomma,
I am not sure what happened. It could have been a number of things. Pediatrician agrees it is best to rule out with Neurology appointment.
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Post by SharonF on May 10, 2011 12:18:08 GMT -5
>>Over all he evidenced verbal memory, learning and recognition skills within normal limits. In contrast, he evidenced severe deficits with visual learning, memory and recognition tasks.<<
I'm no psychologist, but I agree. These test results are not adding up. Especially when combined with his WISC and other measures. I see a few patterns and a few red flags, but I am not able to grasp the whole picture for your son.
I think you need to contact a pediatric neurologist to explore the "staring spells." It's happening too often to ignore.
Attention may be a factor in his learning style. Not just inattention, but paying too much attention to details and losing the big picture. (Just the opposite of what I assumed from looking at his WISC scores weeks ago.) Both visually and auditorally, it seems that he over-focuses on some details and loses track of what's important.
Executive function can be closely related to attention. NEPSY or Dellis-Kaplan might explain how his brain organizes and processes information--and when or if there are gaps in that processing.
His SCAN results point to significant problems with some specific types of auditory processing. Especially, he has trouble getting the meaning if he hears two things at the same time...a different word or sentence in each ear. He also has trouble if the auditory message is delivered faster than normal.
While other parts of his SCAN are in the normal range, I think it's likely that his auditory processing weaknesses are probably a major reason why he mispronounces some words. It's almost like he doesn't "hear" all of the phonemes. You said you've had concerns for years about speech, right? Is it because he mispronounces some words like cat-us instead of cactus and exculator instead of calculator? His SCAN scores may explain those speech irregularities. He may not be "hearing" the words correctly.
And often, people with auditory processing problems have reading difficulties. But his visual processing and visual memory are not consistent. That can also create problems with reading and learning.
Hmmmm.....
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Post by chiaroscuro on May 10, 2011 14:48:00 GMT -5
Sharon,
I am very confused by the results of the WRAML-2. I am beginning to become used to the duality and uniqueness that he displays in his cognitive profile as well as in everyday life. He is very much a puzzle and it seems no matter which measure he can not be scored by conventional standards.
His speech has always been my biggest concern. His first babble was ma-ma which in relation to my other children was usually secondary to dada. This progressed relatively normal. From one to two years he slowed down and seemed to be very cautious when he tried to speak. He favored his body language, nonverbal communication and even his receptive language seemed very good. He would respond to his name, people, nod, point, and bring you specific objects that you asked for. He was very sensitive to noises and would flip his ears down and hold them.(Vacuum, toilet flushing, people singing, baby crying)
When I brought up my concerns to the pediatricians, they would ask him questions (he could say yes and no, basic words though unclear articulation), to point to objects and body parts, etc.. They concluded because his sister was a late talker at 2 1/2, he was just a late bloomer, cautious observer and I can't tell you how many times I heard "Einstein Syndrome" despite his unclear speech. He could not position his tongue properly for certain sounds especially "L's"
At four, I insisted on a speech evaluation and again the Speech Language pathologist met my concerns with reassurance and told me how she bumped up his scores because she was certain he understood the questions. She said she suspected a phonological disorder and said he should be tested in the future for expressive and receptive language disorder. We did exercises at home to help him to know when and where to position his tongue. Words that had initial L,& medial L combinations for example: like lollipop, lullaby, little were especially difficult for him.
I told him to watch me and whenever I touch my nose during the word I wanted him to bring his tongue to his teeth and make the L sound. He made tremendous gains from four to five to the point that at school I would tell them he needed speech but he would pass their screenings (most of his errors are in free conversational speech but if you ask him to repeat word he can.)
He will have trouble saying/spelling words like just(sust), hand(han), but can spell words like frowning, & very clearly tell you his favorite composer is Tchaikovsky or "look at the chrysalis".
In math he is equally confusing he can subtract faster than he can add. He can do difficult word problems mentally despite his language issues. He can easily double, divide but will get hung up on easy addition. He rarely shows his work and can't explain to his teacher how he got the answer. He is excellent at drawing, building complex Lego's kits from pictures, video games, fixing things. He loves I Spy, Spot What books, and can find them all before any of us.
This is why I am so confused. Everything that he loves and many of his strengths have more to do with being a Visual Spatial learner. How can his visual "input" be so poor but his performance be so intact?
I honestly think his language processing difficulties and his love of visual stimuli may have caused him to not fully understand what was being asked of him. At home he has to know whats expected of him and why before he is able to attend to a task. I see the SLP also noted he often said "I forget or I don't know" which he frequently says at home when he can't explain an answer. With his word finding and speech errors sometimes he feels it's easier to pretend he doesn't know. Which is so sad.
At the same time I do not want to dismiss this. I want to help him to be able to express himself and all of his wonderful talents. Give him the tools to overcome/ cope with his weaknesses so he can develop a love of learning that extends well beyond his school years. If anybody can make a connection between these discrepancies or offer a different perspective, please do. If this is an issue, I do not want to miss it. I am at a loss.
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Post by momfromma on May 10, 2011 16:50:59 GMT -5
A couple points that your two latest posts
A) First, have your son been evaluated for spectrum disorders? I dont see anything drastic in what you describe, but there are still a few red flags. In any case, you may want to see a pediatric neuropsychologist because there are so many pieces in the puzzle your son is that you need somebody who puts everything together and goes farther than telling you that this score is average or not average.
B) Visual learning vs Visual thinking. Your son may be a visual spatial learner, but not have the executive skills that allow him to quickly memorize a drawing to reproduce it. He may also be a big picture person and miss most details, or at the opposite be a detail oriented person who misses the big picture. As Sharon points out, the fact that he seems to miss details on both speech and visual aspects could be a point. Also, most of the activities you list are visual spatial, but few of them include visual memory. I wonder how your son performs at memory games.
C) Yes, it is sad to see that your son will answer: I dont know. My son was like that at his age. He may need some counseling to help him dealing with these issues.
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Post by temomma on May 10, 2011 21:34:30 GMT -5
Looking at CAP results... if it is not CAP disorder (with borderline numbers!!), I do not know what to say. Actually, I know. It is nice to have a specialist like Dr. Ferre, who knows the meaning behind the numbers.
About WRAML... as you remember our kids have very similar WISC results,( your son has better memory index, my son has better processing speed). Our wraml results were pretty consistent with WISC, poor verbal memory and excellent visual. And our CAP test revealed left hemisphere based CAPD, what leads to problems with reading/writing/spelling, language based problems. You have results which hard put together.
I can recommend the book "When the brain can't hear" by Teri James Bellis. She describes very detailed symptoms of different flavors of CAPD. you can analyze your son's writing and reading to get better understanding how to help.
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Post by SharonF on May 11, 2011 6:39:35 GMT -5
I agree with momfromma. A developmental neuropsychologist may be the next step. Someone needs to pull together ALL of the test results from all of the disciplines, analyze the patterns, decide what areas need more evaluation, and then figure out a profile.
As she said, knowing if a score is "average" or "not average" is not enough.
CAPD can be darned complicated. There's even a chicken/egg debate about how CAPD works. Some experts say, if the brain is not wired for solid auditory processing, that can negatively impact language development. But others say, if a person's brain is not wired for strong language processing, the person often has inconsistent auditory processing scores.
With my own kids, their language processing scores (CELF) were all over the place--some highs, some averages and a few extreme lows. Their SCAN and SSW were also very inconsistent. But when you looked at the evidence, both kids had significant weakenesses in both auditory and language processing. The inconsistencies sometimes cancelled each other out, making it harder to identify and address.
Like your son, my son was a late talker. He babbled but preferred to point rather than to call something by name. I remember him as a toddler pointing into the pantry and making an "ehhh" sound, kind of like a squawk. I'd ask, "Do you want Cheerios?" "Ehhhh." Do you want a cookie? "Ahhh." At the time, no one thought anything about it. The pediatrician reassured me he was fine. When he started struggling in school in about 7th grade we started to understand that he had problems with receptive and expressive language--which had started many years earlier.
Neither of my kids had speech articulation problems. But they did sometimes "mishear" words that were new to them. Like the neighbor kid who named his gerbil "Baxter" and my daughter insisted the name was "Daxter." Again, it was only in hindsight that we put those pieces together. And apparently my husband, as a kid, was famous in his family for mispronouncing words. Everyone thought his mispronunciations were so cute. They didn't realize that it later would cause him great difficulty with reading--not only decoding but also fluency and comprehension.
I think you've got plenty of evidence that your son needs a good neuropsych eval.
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Post by michellea on May 11, 2011 6:42:03 GMT -5
chiaroscuro, I'm glad that you had the additional testing, and it appears that it uncovers other areas of strength and weakness which will be important in understanding your child's profile. While I cannot interpret the results and am glad that you will seek further help, I do know from personal experience, that one can have both extreme strengths in a realm such as the auditory or visual systems and at the same time extreme weaknesses in those same systems.
For instance, my son has incredible strengths in the verbal realm including verbal abstract thinking, vocabulary, knowledge, long, short and working memory. Yet, at the same time he has some CAPD and is profoundly (and I mean profoundly) dyslexic and has significant word-finding problems. Yet, he is primarily an auditory learner. In the visual realm, he has many strengths, too. Yet, he has visual processing problems and visual motor issues.
It sounds like your son is complex. My sense is that his profile will reveal itself slowly but surely. He has some significant strengths. And, it will be your challenge, with the help of experts you trust, to find the right mix of support, instruction and accommodations to unleash his potential and keep him whole. This often means going outside the school district, which may not have the expertise to fully understand him.
As temomma says - you have results that are hard to put together. It may take some time and digging to find the right team to help you put it together. But, you will be able to do it - look at you - you have been questioning and on top of things at a very early stage.
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Post by chiaroscuro on May 12, 2011 10:31:49 GMT -5
Thank you all for responding,
Since he was little I have wondered about him being on the spectrum considering his language delay, sensitivity to sounds( I have sensory issues myself), large spread between his cognitive profile etc. When people meet him they dismiss it because he is very interactive, mild tempered/calm and affectionate. This has been a very difficult task for me in unraveling the many disorders and symptoms when so many intersect, over lap and share common characteristics.
Early on I suspected Apraxia because of articulation problems (his speaking without positioning or using his tongue) and was told "do not say Apraxia because insurances won't cover it." I never suspected ADHD(though I knew little about the different types) because of his extreme focus ability and willingness to attend to tasks and subjects that are difficult for him.
He has a wonderful perseverance about him which is a huge asset for him considering his difficulties. One which is entwined with his self esteem and I know I have to protect it at all cost. It is harder now that he is becoming more aware of his learning differences.
He is very bright but his language (word retrieval) difficulties dilute or prevent him from expressing his ideas and wonderful concepts fully. At school he gets many things incorrect. By choosing the wrong words it appears he did not comprehend the material and they often do not have the time to listen to the long winded responses that he would have to make to clarify what he means. When people take the time with a careful ear to allow him to explain they are often amazed by how deeply he thinks.
The Audiologist and SLP made wonderful recommendations regarding his moderate/to severe Word finding difficulties. They suggested him be given more time to formulate answers, to be given credit for answers that are semantically related but not exactly the right words, to not have him confronted with oral reading/speaking tasks that may heighten his anxiety and cause word finding to become worse.
Also to have access to a resource room for completion of projects and test taking where he may be able to explain his answers to a proctor to obtain credit. Having him avoid settings that are noisy and reverberant. There are too many for me to list and it would be wonderful if the school could accommodate him in these ways (but realistically I don't know that they can or will).
I do think we need a Pediatric Neurologist to help us put the pieces together and I thank you for your encouragement and wisdom. Hopefully soon things will start lining up..
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Post by michellea on May 12, 2011 11:09:46 GMT -5
chiaroscuro - I know what you mean about his difficulty expressing his deep thinking - and how others may perceive him if they don't take the time to listen and to allow him to formulate his thoughts. This is EXACTLY one of my son's struggles. On one hand, he is extremely verbal and has amazing receptive language skills. On the other, he just can't get the words out with precision, in a timely basis and in a organized and sequenced manner.
The accommodations you list will be critical - and are many of the ones that have benefited my son in his LD school. As my son transitions to a mainstream school, we are worried that his teachers may not understand how bright and hard working he is - his pace, awkward use of language and other LD's can be easily (and understandably) mis-interpeted.
As part of his IEP, we have a teacher conference scheduled by the second week of school, to explain to the teachers what is up. We also have the accommodations you listed in his IEP. He also gets word banks on tests and quizzes to help him with retrieval. We have learned that these things are essential for him to cope and succeed.
My guy is 14 and I've been at it a bit longer than you. It does get easier in some ways. But, there are times when my own sadness and fear swoops down unexpectedly and throws me off balance for a few days. But I do know with all my heart and all my brain, he will be ok. I just wish it wasn't so hard. It's not fair - but I know that life is not fair. So, we move forward, loving, learning, supporting, adjusting, and maintaining belief in our children.
And - being here with others that experience similar challenges, keeps me sane. (at least most of the time! lol)
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Post by chiaroscuro on May 12, 2011 13:35:53 GMT -5
michellea,
Everything you said resonates so well with me also. Just the other day my son brought home his classwork and was so disheartened by the sight of all of the X's and corrections he had to make. It broke my heart to hear him say "See I am not very smart, I get everything wrong"
He loves science so I thought it would be a good idea to talk about how Pearls and Diamonds are made. I told him that these two gemstones have been prized by humanity since our beginnings and asked him why he thinks people value them and make such a fuss over them? He said because they are beautiful and diamonds reflect light and are strong.
I then asked him if he knew how an oyster makes a pearl? I told him that the when a piece of sand gets stuck in an oyster it irritates and hurts the oyster. In order for the oyster to protect itself it secretes the same chemical that makes up its shell around the irritant and over time it becomes hard and smooth. I said "So, while we think they are pretty and rare, to an oyster they are uncomfortable and required a lot of work to make.
I then told him about how diamonds are made up from carbon the same element that makes up things like graphite, charcoal and coal. I said when carbon is pushed down ,exposed to intense heat and pressure it, it slowly over time- once polished becomes one of the most valuable, brilliant, and strongest minerals in the earth. Though to a piece of carbon( had it feelings), the process would have felt unbearable.
I told him that I know because of his difficulties that he( like them) feels alot of the time pushed down, pressured, hurt and it takes a lot of energy. Right now he can't see his value but in the end (and already in my heart he is priceless)if he refuses to give up, He will become stronger, more brilliant and rare. Then people will value him but probably never even think about the long painful process that brought him there.
He gave me a big hug and promised me he wouldn't give up. When he starts to feel down I show him my ring and he smiles.
I know it takes diamonds to cut diamonds, and you michellea like so many other mothers(and fathers) on here are truly diamonds and so valuable to parents like me who are at the beginning stages of this. Thanks again!!
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Post by SharonF on May 12, 2011 13:41:11 GMT -5
michellea--
Very well said. Your son and your clients are so fortunate to have an advocate who is so caring and knowledgeable. You explain things so well.
While you are right that life is not fair, you are using your gifts to help level the playing field for your son and so many others. Thanks for being here!
And chiaroscura--your examples are perfect! Our kids didn't choose a life full of intense heat and pressure...or irritating grit. But your son is like those precious gems in many ways. Great job!
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Post by michellea on May 12, 2011 16:09:56 GMT -5
Thanks, SharonF - I learned from the best AND I LOVE the diamond/ Pearl examples. I will use them, for sure.
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Post by healthy11 on May 12, 2011 17:59:16 GMT -5
You all have beautiful ways with words...I've previously referred to my son a "diamond in the rough," but sometimes I think I let the pressure get to me more than he does!!
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Post by chiaroscuro on May 12, 2011 20:00:03 GMT -5
healthy, that is why you're so "brilliant" All of you are and have helped me so much and your devotion to your children and to helping others on this site should be commended. I talked to the SLP today and she told me she had spoken to the Neurology department and they may be able to see him through the urgent clinic to get him in faster. I should know tomorrow. I also was going to bring the report to the school tomorrow and ask to schedule a meeting to discuss the suggested accommodations. Hopefully they will be able to implement them.
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Post by healthy11 on May 12, 2011 20:13:45 GMT -5
We're all "with you in spirit," hoping tomorrow's news is positive!
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Post by SharonF on May 13, 2011 9:49:39 GMT -5
What's really neat about this board is the power of collective wisdom. None of us knows it all. But when you combine our individual experiences and hard-earned knowledge, we can be a reliable, accurate, reassuring resource for others.
Whether it's analyzing scores, writing "Dear Bonehead SpEd Director" letters, or just providing a listening ear and empathy...the people on this board provide a sense of community that parents really need but usually can't find.
In this case, the whole is far greater than the sum of its parts.
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Post by chiaroscuro on May 13, 2011 11:36:41 GMT -5
Yes Sharon,
You all have been invaluable with your combined experience, personal experiences and wisdom at offering different perspectives which is something that parents who are new to this, really need.
One thing I noticed early on is that educators, doctors,& different specialists may be very knowledgeable at there specific field but are not always able to offer insight on how everything inter-correlates.
So we are left trying to unravel "What's the next step and is this the symptom or the cause?" Trying to educate ourselves on the many different symptoms of disabilities,disorders and how they present, education laws and trying to master the proper terminology just to be able to relay symptoms and communicate with the specialists more efficiently.
It is very taxing and grueling task and especially because you are doing it at a time that is filled with worry for your child and how these difficulties may impact their lives and future. The fear of the "unknown" or"what if I miss this" and the race against the clock fearing that there are specific windows of opportunity for making connections/learning during certain developmental stages & that if they are missed, it may be difficult or near impossible to make later. It is devastated to read things like "if your child hasn't made "x" connection by age "x" then he/she will probably not make it by age 85. Though some may be true it leaves you with a feeling of hopelessness rather than guidance.
It helps so much to have a support system of people who have been there on many different levels. Who can help guide you, offer you knowledge, tools to gain it & different points of view/perspectives. A new way to look at things when your eyes may be clouded when, as michellea said " the fear swoops down" I know it has been circling above me lately. It helps to balance our emotions and stay the course for our children. Which is why we are here. I thank you ALL for that
You guys are great!!!
My son has a Neurology appointment set for the second week in June which is good and I am headed out to the school now to give the report. I'll keep you updated as it all unfolds.
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Post by SharonF on May 13, 2011 12:07:42 GMT -5
chiaroscura--
You have described it perfectly. Yes, we've been where you are. It tore apart my very soul at the time. And then I had to repeat the process with our second child. It's why I keep coming back here. Too many parents are wracked with fear, guilt and confusion. Or exhaustion. They don't know where to turn.
Parents begin to hear from many experts--and most are well-meaning. But those experts sometimes give conflicting analyses or advice. Or they provide a technical description/diagnosis but little practical understanding of what those terms really mean. Or they only focus on federal law, eligibility, IEP category and placement...but not on the child as a human being.
We Millermoms can't take away your fear or offer you a crystal ball. But we promise to be a community of caring people who will help you and your son get through this. If you hang around for a few months or years, you'll see how we cry together and celebrate together. And maybe as you get a little farther on your journey, you'll be able to share with and encourage other newbies.
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Post by chiaroscuro on May 13, 2011 20:38:24 GMT -5
I hope so too! Thanks
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Post by chiaroscuro on Jun 1, 2011 9:36:28 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I have a meeting tomorrow with the school to discuss the report from Children's Hospital and the recommended accommodations. I'm hoping they will implement some. Michellea, Did your son have difficulty early on with the word banks due to his difficulties with reading? My son brought one home yesterday where the sentences said "Seeing her mom's _____ smile, the baby stopped crying. He wrote "building" thinking it was beautiful(instead of "welcoming"). He then wrote "My little brother is "welcoming" a bridge with blocks". He told me it said "wrecking". He does this frequently and is obviously guessing and projecting what he thinks it should say, but his answers make sense. When I read them with him, he gets them all correct. The reading specialist said he went from reading 7 words per min to 39( which is still below the majority of his class but grade level )and his accuracy went up to 94% which I agree, is very good. Though from looking at his class work, like the above word bank , you wouldn't see it. I don't know what to expect tomorrow and to top it off I received a letter stating the school is going to be cutting back sped., speech and other programs and raise our taxes to help with the $6.1 million budget gap. It's a wealthy school district and I already pay over $3000/year. They spent $$$$$$$$$$$$ on iPods, iPads, Windows 7, macs, several routers etc. and now will be limiting the number of students who would have benefited from them. It is sad. I guess I will find out tomorrow.
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Post by michellea on Jun 1, 2011 10:12:03 GMT -5
Yes, my son still has trouble with words like that. Usually he's been exposed to the words within a word bank a number of times and they are related to the content he is studying - so his "guesses" based on size of word, initial and ending letters, are often correct when using them. All in all, they help more than they confuse! He is able to use the context of the question and his background knowledge to guess at the word - but when certain words look very similar, he may confuse them. His school is excellent about pointing out root words, prefixes etc. So, sometimes he learns the difference between similar looking words (scientific terms for examples) by consciously breaking down the word. (ie: intra vs inter post vs ant micro vs macro) A related problem is that even at age 14, he cannot accurately copy. So, even if the word is in the word bank, he may spell it wrong in his work. He has an objective to improve on this - and an accommodation that these misspellings will not effect his grade. Just recently, he was editing a paper and had trouble reading his teachers's comments. I can't remember what the words were, but he totally mis-read what she wrote. He often misses words that he should be able to decode based on his mastery of certain word patterns. But, when the situation is more complex or out of the ordinary - or if he is having a off day - he misreads even common, simple words. So - your son's problems are very familiar! But I think as he begins to truly master word patterns and decoding strategies, he will be able to break the words apart. It may be something he must do deliberately rather than naturally (hence it takes more time and energy), but it is a strategy that can work. Glad to hear that your son's fluency is improving! Please let us know how the meeting goes. I hope he gets access to the technology
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Post by healthy11 on Jun 1, 2011 10:21:45 GMT -5
I will never forget my son once reading a sentence in H.S., and missing the meaning of an entire passage, because he interpreted it as "the check was valid" when it actually said "the check was void." Same sorts of issues you describe, michellea...he tends to get beginning and ending sounds, but the stuff in the middle is unclear.
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