Perceptual reasoning how to develop it?

[milla]

Hi,
I am new to this forum and want to say hello.
My son who is 9, has ADD, problems with socializing .He had WHISKIV
test and show low Perceptual Reasoning score. Block design was 10 but picture concept was 6 and picture completion ,matrix reasoning were low. His verbal comprehension is OK and literacy is his strengh,I was told by Psychologist. Does anyone have any ideas how to develop Perceptual Reasoning?Any websites? Books on that subject? Help please!

milla

[sld123]

what did the psych. reccomend?

[SharonF]

milla--

Welcome!

My 17-year old daughter has a similar profile. Her WISC-IV showed her Perceptual Reasoning Index (PRI) was 34-points lower than her Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI). In the world of statistics, a difference of 15 points is considered 'significant.' So 34-points is twice that! Like your son, she also has ADHD-inattentive type.

IQ tests are supposed to measure the way a person's brain is wired to think. Most people have stronger areas and weaker areas of thinking. While a person's IQ is never set in stone, thinking style is something that people are "born with." A person can strengthen their weak areas, but even with exercises and practice, their weak areas may still reman relatively weak. That may be true for your son. Even if you find books to help develop his abstract reasoning, he may always have stronger verbal abilities and weaker nonverbal.

Did the psych mention anything about Nonverbal Learning Disability, Aspergers or the Autism Spectrum?

Nonverbal Learning Disability (NLD or NVLD) does not have a diagnosis code. There is no IEP category for it. But it is very real.

Experts should not determine if a person has NLD based only on IQ indices. But most people with NLD have a higher VCI and lower PRI. In addition, NLD covers a spectrum of other difficulties: balance, fine motor/handwriting, social skills, drawing inferences, reading body language, etc.

Not all NLDers have the same type of difficulties. Not all NLDers have the same severity of difficulties. But they fit under the large umbrella that is NLD.

While I don't live in Minnesota, I really like this paper that Minnesota wrote for its schools about understanding and addressing NLD. education.state.mn.us/mdeprod/groups/SpecialEd/documents/Instruction/001566.pdf

Keep in mind that ADHD (including ADHD-inattentive type, sometimes called ADD) can push down a child's IQ scores. My dd's first Block Design was without medication, and she scored a 1. Yep, the lowest score possible. With meds, her Block Design was a 7. ADHD meds have really helped her, but nonverbal reasoning is still her weakest area.

Most important: what difficulties is your son having in school? You mentioned social issues. How big of a problem is that? You say literacy is his strength. Reading, written expression or both?

Rather than trying to boost his PRI, it's usually best to pinpoint how his unique difficulties are affecting him in school and in life, and developing an IEP or other strategies to help him overcome or adapt to those difficulties. While he probably won't get an IEP for NLD, he can get one for Other Health Impaired/ADHD, then write goals to address his NLD.

If your son struggles in math, he should receive additional help with the calculation and reasoning required for math. If he struggles with inferencing while reading (especially how and why questions), his teachers should give him specialized help with reading comprehension. If he struggles to read body language, tone of voice, or understand social interaction, he may need Pragmatic Language Therapy with a Speech-Language Pathologist and counseling with a specialist who understands NLD and Autism Spectrum disorders. If he struggles with holding a pencil, he should receive Occupational Therapy and maybe receive Assistive Technology.

And because he has ADHD, he may need more frequent breaks while in the classroom or doing homework, help with organization, and more time to let information "sink in."

MOST IMPORTANT: if you google Nonverbal Learning Disability, you may find some really discouraging stuff. Please remember that most early research into NLDers was with kids with extreme traits. The majority of NLDers are not that impaired. But some old stuff is still on the web. Just ignore the stuff that seems depressing because it probably does not apply to your son.

My daughter is now in 12th grade. Despite struggles in math, abstract reasoning, fine motor and reading/listening comprehension, she has a 3.5 GPA, is in National Honor Society, is headed to college with at least $10,500 in academic merit scholarships per year, and is a happy, responsible young lady with lots of friends. She is a true joy to be around. There were some tough years. But she is amazing.

I share that not to brag, but to let you know that NLD/ADHD is not the end of the world. If our kids are allowed to draw upon their strengths and get help with specific areas of need, they will find ways to compensate and succeed!

Good luck!

[Mayleng]

Welcome milla.

[milla]

Thank you for your reply. It is always encouraging to learn about the success stories.
My son has been a puzzle to me, to his teachers for a long time. Sometimes he does very well ,sometimes is disaster,depending on his ability to focus on that particular day. He finds maths difficult but when he is able to focus even maths can be OK. Mathematical problems are problems for him indeed always while computing itself when he can focus is OK. Reading and writing is fine a part of his handwriting which again depends on his ability to focus that day: sometimes is neat sometimes horible.However, his ability to spell is OK. His social skills are not good. He finds difficuly to make friends and he is learning now how to do it slowly. He is clamsy but can play the piano.He is very affectionate and can be very cosiderate. His perceptual reasoning and processing information(very slow) are worring me. I did not get any advise about that from the psychologist. The test showed what I have observed it myself already but it does not seem to me that he is NLD.
milla

[Mayleng]

Is he on medication for his ADHD? and if he is what is it?

[SharonF]

milla--

You may be right that he doesn't have NLD. Did you go through the checklist on that link I sent? The case studies in that report may also help you understand NLD better. Most teachers have never heard of NLD--so they don't mention it to parents. But all teachers have heard of ADHD. And some teachers, even doctors, are quick to blame everything on ADHD.

Also keep in mind that no two NLDers are exactly alike. My dd is extremely intuitive, perceptive and has excellent social skills. She has a great sense of humor. She is a very good athlete. She is extremely organized. But she still has NLD: weak abstract reasoning, very poor fine motor skills (handwriting, cutting with a scissors), difficulty with parts to whole/whole to parts, and some visual-spatial issues such as gauging distance, reading some charts/graphs, etc.

Likewise, I have NLD traits. Like your son, I play piano (I studied for 14 years.) I do calligraphy. But I hated PE because I'm generally clumsy. I was reading at a 5th grade level while still in preschool, but math was always much harder for me. My dd and I have some similar NLD traits, but definitely not the same NLD traits!!

You mentioned you're concerned about your son's Processing Speed. What was his WISC Processing Speed Index? Keep in mind that ADHD can sabotage a person's PSI. ADHD is not a behavior disorder, it's an information processing disorder. ADHD interrupts the flow of information from brain cell to brain cell. ADHD meds often help that information flow the way it's supposed to. Also, if he has handwriting difficulty, his Coding may be artificially low. That's because handwriting is a key part of the Coding test.

Generally speaking, the WISC gives you a solid snapshot of the way your child's brain is wired to think. I suggest that your goal should not be increasing certain WISC indices or subtest scores. Instead, use the WISC results (as well as any other eval results such as Woodcock Johnson, Kaufman, WIAT, Beery-Buktenica, Bender Gestalt, etc.) to figure out how the school can help your son succeed.

[milla]

My son 's Perceptual Reasoning score was 75 while his processing speed was 68. The only part of Perceptual Reasoning which was good was Block Design. His handwriting is fine when he is focusing. You are right that his ADD interupts and I think that it is his main problem.I read that it also affects the development of social skills. He is not on any medication a part from fish oil,vitamins (Supernutera),enzimes and probiotics ,all natural. I read that all these medecines for ADD have bad side effects,sometimes dangerous and I did everything to improve his concentration (i.e.teaching him piano) without med. I did go through the check list for NLD which you sent me but it does not seem to me that he is the case .Maybe some traits of that, some of mild PDD, it is difficult to pinpoint . Do you know of any medication for ADD which is more natural and does not have bad side effects ? He is NOT hyperactive and can focus when he likes something or is motivated.
milla

[Mayleng]

milla, unfortunately not medicating sometimes has it's own bad side effects, ie. not being able to focus enough to learn or lead a "normal" life. Don't read all the junk out there about medication. If there were alternatives that work, don't you think all of us would be using them now? Not all that is natural is safe as well as there is no oversight on what is produced. Cyanide is natural too, if you know what I mean.


Here some studies on medication etc.

www.nimh.nih.gov/health/trials/nimh-research-on-treatment-for-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-adhd-questions-and-answers-about-the-multimodal-treatmen.shtml

www.neuropsychiatryreviews.com/jun04/npr_jun04_ADHDstunt.html

www.apa.org/monitor/may01/stimulants.html

here's a recent discussion we had, it contains some of our own members experiences on medication. millermom.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7032

Not all kids have side effects from the medications. The trick is to find one that works well and has no or least side effects, and find a good child pediatrician or child psych who is familiar with adhd.

My son has been on meds for the last 7 yrs, and has done great. It took us a while to find the right medication but he has been on metadate cd for the last 4 yrs with no side effects.
Every child reacts different to each med, some work well for others but not some others. It just takes time to find the right now.

My son is ADHD/inattentive, no hyperactivity - he can focus on things he likes ie. hyperfocus - that is the nature of the beast in ADHD kids. He is not a behavior problem. He went from not being able to read (in 1st grade) to reading at a 3rd grade level in two months after starting medication and tutoring. He is an A student and has been performing well academically since being on meds. He is now 13 yrs old and in 7th grade.
Like I said, it took us a while to find the right medication but it was worth it. He went from a child who felt stupid and his self esteem was being eroded to being a happy, well adjusted and social child. I can tell you without a doubt, medication was the biggest factor in this (for us).

[milla]

Thank you all very much! This forum is really great! I got so much information in only one day which was really helpful although I have not received yet the answer to my original question about Perceptual Reasoning. Those sites about taking Ritalin scared my husband so much. It was not sleep or appetite which he did not like. It was its effect on liver or kidneyes. However, it is good to know that it is not all that black. You helped me realise that.
I also read on this site about ADHD Inattentive. This describes my son very acurately,he has all of the simptoms! I often wonder if this is the only cause of all of his problems.

milla

[Mayleng]

If you type ritalin, you are going to get ritalin death people and people against stimulants. You and your husband should be discussing medication with doctors who are familiar with adhd. Stimulants have been around for over 70 years and is the most tested medication around.

What we are saying is with regards to Perceptual Reasoning or any issues, is if you don't fix the underlying problems, sometimes it is difficult to find a way to "fix" Peceptual Reasoning etc. You can't really fix it, you can find ways to help him overcome his weaknesses because of it.
How is this impacting him? This is where you work from. What is it that is diffcult for him to do because of Peceptual Reasoning? It would help if you tell us what is the exact diffculty. I can tell you ADHD has more impact on kids' learning and retaining what they learn.

In my son's case, he does not have any learning disabilities aside from his ADHD, so helping him with his ADHD allowed him to learn and retain what he has learnt.