A college plan with no SAT/ACT required

[jisp]

I recently learned that if a child spends 2 years at a community college and then applies to transfer that he is not required to take the SAT or ACT for admissions. More importantly many colleges have specific scholarships and funding for kids who do exactly this.

My son upon hearing this became excited as he is already enrolled in community college courses. He likes this plan because it takes the focus away from his HS transcript which is not so good and puts the focus onto where he is now. Plus it allows him to reach for a challenging college that he wants to attend.

Just thought I would share this strategy as others might not know that this is an option. One nice thing about this option for our son is that it allows a gradual transition to college where he can continue to do the therapeutic and cognitive work that he is currently doing. And he can modify his course load to what he can handle.

Our son also likes this plan because he thinks it would be rather amusing if despite everything he has been through he ends up in the same place that the type-A competitive types at his high school ended up.

[SharonF]

Thanks for sharing. Too few educators and parents seem to know about this!

In our state, the community-college-then-transfer option also helps students who want to get a four year degree but have trouble with higher-level math or foreign language.

High school students in our state can get a "Career-Tech Diploma" with four years of Tech Math and no foreign langugage. Those students can attend a Community College for two years, then transfer to a four year college/university. If their college major does not require calculus or foreign language, they can get a college degree without ever having to take those classes.

Our advocate was the one who told us about that. The high school SpEd Directors and Guidance Counselors we dealt with weren't as knowledgeable!

[dhfl143]

This is one I will file away for future use, when we need it. Thanks for posting this information!

[sld123]

art instititues do not require the sat or act

[aworriedmom]

Maybe I'm confused and apologize in advance--with no SAT/ACT scores, the admission standards for competitive admission to a top tier college would then be totally based on their HS GPS/transcipt plus community college grades achieved over those two years. If the HS GPA was less than stellar, then the most recent community college grades would be of greatest importance to the college admission committee? This sure gives the kid who was poorly served by the local high school, whether SPED or not, a chance to redeem themselves and keep the dreams alive. Is this what you have learned? thanks.

[SharonF]

worried--

What do you mean by a "top tier college"?

Honestly, the highest-calliber universities may not be interested in accepting a transfer student from a community college. But only a tiny fraction of four-year colleges are in that "top tier"--Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.

The majority of colleges would gladly accept a community college transfer with decent grades. They would love to have a student who has already passed pre-requisites and proven that he is capable of doing college-level work.

While most four-year colleges are not considered top tier, most still provide a darned good education. In fact, I believe that colleges that aim for "average" students are a better fit for most kids.

If a university won't admit my dd because her SAT score isn't high enough, that's a clear sign that she would not thrive there. It's far better that she apply to colleges where the majority of students have GPAs and SATs in line with hers. She has a much better chance of fitting in there and finding success. She has found a lot of colleges where she would fit and is in the process of applying to four.

If your son is more likely to succeed by starting at a community college, then transferring later, he should do it! And when he transfers, he should look for four-year colleges that welcome transfers like him with open arms.

More than a year ago, I attended a college prep workshop for families. The speaker pointed out that every college has different enrollment management (admissions) goals. A few only admit the academic 'cream of the crop.' But many schools' admissions policies put increasing weight on desirable character traits and on school/community involvement. We were told to do a lot of research--to find the ones that best match up with our kids' aptitude and interests.

And most employers don't care WHERE you went to college or even what your college GPA was. They want do know that you got a degree from an accredited college or university--and that you will be an asset to their company.

[momfromma]

Sharon F,

Many colleges do not consider SAT, ACT scores as the only reference. Sure, the top tier do, but some good colleges look at other numbers as well, such as GPA, motivation, and recommendation.

My oldest son had a SAT score very mediocre, and an ACT score barely better. However, he knew what major he wanted (Asian Languages and Litterature), he had a reasonably good GPA (about 3.5), and great recommendations from his Chinese teacher and the school principal. He also wrote a letter explaining his motivation.

He applied to 4 colleges, was admitted to three of them. Sure, it was not Yale or Harvard (where he would not have fitted anyway), but they all were among the top 150 colleges on the US&News list. He will be able to go to China for one semester either as a sophomore or a junior, and to minor in a reasonably good foreign policy minor.

Jisp,

Thanks. I am keeping that in mind for ds2. He is a freshman this year and want to continue in Maths or Sciences after he graduates from high school and it is very hard for me to see how he could get even grades as low as his brother in an SAT or ACT. So, we are keeping this option in mind.

[cobyseven]

Top Tier colleges are nice (my oldest dd is in a highly-ranked university; certainly not Princeton, but somewhere in the top 15), but some of the four-year kids she schools with still haven't the slightest idea what to do with their degree. Their grades aren't good enough for a 'top-tier' grad school, so is the $50,000 they shelled out every year really worth it? Hmmm.....it's an individual decision for sure and needs to be based on the child's goals and attributes. One of the advantages of a top-tier school is the endowments and the money available to kids who need it. Harvard, e.g. provides completely free undergraduate tuition for those who earn less than 150K per year. BUT, you've got to be sure your kid can compete on that level. Entrance is a nightmare and you need to have SATs that are pushing 750-800 per section.

Now, my kid is a Dean's List kid and is shooting for one of the only 12 open spots in her school's graduate program in Audiology. She stands a chance, but we'll see. In any case, if she keeps up the grades, she will be able to get into another program. But, the truth of the matter is that it is a very rare kid who is absolutely sure of their path at that age. She's a junior and just chose that path.

Sharon is right; average employers aren't looking for that. In fact, they might be judging the work ethic by the struggles. It's definitely got to be a match for the child.

I expect my youngest to attend community college first. Frankly, anything more is iffy.

If I had to give you all advice....I'd say make your kid fund at least 1/2 of their own education. Makes the decisions smarter; less wasteful. Not only that; by the time they have borrowed xxx dollars, they will receive more in tuition assistance because loans are in their name. You can always help pay the loans.

Just my 2 cents.

[bros]

Well coby, depending on how severe some of the disabilities are, and how well their parents are financially, the state voc rehab might cover all of the cost of the cc.

[nevergivup]

From my understanding, "Top Tier" colleges accept homeschoolers, which do not have a high school diploma. See the website . It specifically states:


"College admission of applicants without high school diplomas has been going on for a long time. Harvard College specifically mentions that Harvard has never required a high school diploma for admission. Stanford University makes clear in a form letter to homeschooled applicants that a high school diploma is not necessary for admission. The United States Air Force Academy now has a specific Web page with answers to questions about homeschool admission procedures, a sign that it gets that kind of question quite often. More and more colleges are following their lead and mentioning admission policies for homeschoolers..."

I haven't checked out the validity of any of this information--my oldest is in 9th grade and this is only the start of our second year homeschooling.

Nevergivup

[cobyseven]

bros, I read about your financial assistance. I wonder how severe the disabilities need to be. Do you know?

nevergivup......I think top tiers put a great deal of weight on SATs/ACTs. Our school canned class rankings last year because there were so many top performers, so I know that doesn't carry a huge amount of weight. I think my dd had a 4.0 and was only 67th in her class. The valedictorian had a 4.5 (ouch....she went to Harvard).

[nevergivup]

cobyseven--top tiers for homeschoolers look at their portfolios in addition to the SATs. If either one of my kids wanted to go, we would just take some SAT study courses. Some of my friends' kids, who are in public school, have the kids start practicing the SAT in 7th-8th grade, giving the kids tips on taking the test and letting them take it if the parents want. It (SAT)never was a good predictor of performance in college so I don't know why it is still required.

I also think that kids who sit out a couple of years before entering college are exempt from taking the SATs as a requirement. That could be an option to consider.

Nevergivup

[bros]

Oct 28, 2008 17:04:32 GMT -5 cobyseven said:

bros, I read about your financial assistance. I wonder how severe the disabilities need to be. Do you know?

nevergivup......I think top tiers put a great deal of weight on SATs/ACTs. Our school canned class rankings last year because there were so many top performers, so I know that doesn't carry a huge amount of weight. I think my dd had a 4.0 and was only 67th in her class. The valedictorian had a 4.5 (ouch....she went to Harvard).

I get my tuition in full, a $400 allowance for books, and whatever else I might need.

My disabilities:
Dysgraphia
Underdeveloped Muscles/low muscle tone (Doing a wrist curl with a 2 lb weight is hard and the same with a bicep curl)
Visual Motor Integration of a 6 year, 7 month old
Motor Coordination in the 0.1 percentile for my age
20/200 vision in left eye, 20/30 in left

My parents earn $79000 a year, too.

[sld123]

lackawanna college, scranton , has an open door policy

[jw]

Hi! I live in California, and there are a lot of kids out here who go to community college for two years and then transfer to UCLA or USC. Some do it because they had low test scores on the SAT or ACT, and some do it because the community colleges are so much more affordable. jw

[empeg1]

Actually, there are more and more colleges that do not require any standardized test, the SAT or ACT, for admission. Many of them are very well thought of. One example that I know in the West is Lewis and Clark, in Portland. It is a tier 1 priivate, liberal arts school with also very good science programs. Check out the book, Colleges that Change Lives, for more.

[healthy11]

www.fairtest.org lists over 750 colleges that don't require SAT/ACT testing.
If you want to see the impact of colleges admissions versus grades and SAT/ACT scores, find a high school in your area that participates in the Naviance on-line program and will let you check their data as a "guest"...they provide "scattergrams" that clearly show which students get accepted vs. rejected vs. wait-listed.....for example, in a neighboring suburban town to mine, which typically has quite a few National Merit Scholarship winners (they get perfect or near-perfect test scores,) the Naviance graph showed only a couple of kids getting "Ivy League Offers" even though a bunch applied...there's clearly more to admissions offers than just SAT scores or GPA.

[SharonF]

Healthy and empeg--

I think the "SAT/ACT optional" thing is slow to catch on here in the Southeast. I live in a state with more than 8 million people, yet fairtest only lists six colleges in my entire state. Most of those six are historically-black, all-women, or niche schools such as culinary or business. (I'm glad we have colleges with unique student bodies such as majority-minority and schools with specialized missions. But my kids would rather attend a college that's a little more mainstream.)

Guilford College and Wake Forest are the only "typical" colleges from my state on fairtest's SAT Optional list. We have sixteen state universities and not one is on fairtest.

I don't know much about Guilford other than it does not offer dd's intended major so she didn't research it further. When Wake dropped the SAT requirement, it put a lot more weight on GPAs and interviews. And Wake was already a very competitive school. It would not be a good fit for either of my kids.

So--while fairtest is a great thing, colleges in some parts of the country are very slow to embrace a new way of evaluating applicants. But trends seem to start on the West Coast, so maybe it will eventually catch on here!

[healthy11]

www.fairtest.org wasn't "for us" but I listed it for the benefit of others.

Truth be known, my son's performance on standardized tests, where writing isn't required, typically exceeds his regular classroom performance, so he would have been hampered applying to a school with just his GPA.....I also know most fairtest.org schools are liberal arts oriented, and don't offer technical majors, so that's another thing that has to be considered.

[jisp]

Oct 28, 2008 12:35:19 GMT -5 aworriedmom said:

Maybe I'm confused and apologize in advance--with no SAT/ACT scores, the admission standards for competitive admission to a top tier college would then be totally based on their HS GPS/transcipt plus community college grades achieved over those two years. If the HS GPA was less than stellar, then the most recent community college grades would be of greatest importance to the college admission committee? This sure gives the kid who was poorly served by the local high school, whether SPED or not, a chance to redeem themselves and keep the dreams alive. Is this what you have learned? thanks.

A worriedmom, for some kids, like my son they actually do better in Community college courses than they do in high school. For my son there are many factors that have resulted in him finding CC courses better:
1) The work is less tedious and there is less focus on busy work for the final grade
2) Classes are better organized more systematic and lectures are available online for review. Also lecture notes are often available
3) Most of the students in my son's classes are there because they want to be there, so there is less distractions and my son need not navigate a complex social scene that often is challenging for him while also taking in new material
4)There is time during the week to get extra help and support

So in the end for my son who has struggled in finding a high school program that works for him that is accommodating while also being challenging has been hard. And the Community college type programs we have in our area seem to be meeting his needs way better than any high school class.

I hope that answers your question

[cobyseven]

Excellent things to think about jisp. Thank you.

[ldparent]

If there is a particular 4 year school you are interested in you can check and see if they have an agreement with CC or 2 years school for automatic enrollment with adequate progress( number of hours and GPA usually).
Also a number of top tier state schools have agreements with CC in their state. for instance, university of Kentucky has it and at the end you get a regular 4 year degree from UK. you can even get into nursing and engineering programs this route, sometimes easier than on main campus.......
tuition is alot cheaper this way too.
I know a few people that have done it this way. one got into an Ivy league grad school. so with achievement those paths remain open even with a CC start.

[bros]

Here in NJ, all state schools are required to accept credit from Community Colleges. It's pretty cool.

[ldparent]

i mean more than just accepting the credit. It is a program with automatic admission and also the credits count as if earned at the 4 year university. ie, not transfer credits. You dont transfer in, you just move your matriculation so to speak.

[healthy11]

I just saw this article, which mentions George Washington University moving to "no SAT or ACT test required" admissions - the various facts given, about seeking a more diversified student body, are really interesting: news.yahoo.com/one-americas-top-universities-ditching-sat-boost-student-234630892.html