Learned helplessness or just too hard

[cobyseven]

I'm laughing because she has failed so much already this year. It's just hard to decipher how much is contributing to which portion. She has failed every global history test she has had. She has failed nearly every science test. The question and frustration that I feel is weeding out why.

First, there's field hockey and not the time that she needs to properly prepared (reading is slow, listening harder, processing burnout after an entire day and not getting home until 9:00 pm). I vowed to give it until end of second quarter because I just can't bear to make her quit her sport. It's over now, and while I don't know the net result, her history teacher told her she is very pleased with her last exam. Waiting to see 'how pleasing.'

Second, the math required in Science. It's been almost all math so far. She is suppose to get extra help in math across the curriculum, but, how can a kid who does word problems at a grade school level complete and entire exam on word problem density questions? This extra help is on her IEP, but the IS tells me, "Oh, sorry.....this help isn't available to the kids who aren't in adjusted classes." HUH?

Then, she has the paper in AS that started this post. Suppose to be getting help as per her IEP, but, of course, this isn't a core class; so the IS isn't around, the AS teacher doesn't know she's suppose to get this, daughter procrastinates and doesn't plan the assignment....blah, blah, blah

That adds up to 1. IEP failures and non-compliance, 2. her lack of stamina during sports season 3. her reading slowness 4. her math issues 5. her reading 'skimming' 6. her lack of planning

It's terribly difficult to decide the issues.

But, shoot, jisp.....I'm letting her fail. It will impact the entire rest of her year as she may as well have missed the entire first quarter.

I have given her choices. She doesn't WANT to go to the Adjusted Classes. Social suicide. I've told her that the options are not pretty and she better be willing to sweat through EVERY issue if that's her decision. But, of course, it doesn't happen.

I see the biggest problem is lack of IS support because we did not choose "their way." The funny part? She wasn't recommended for Adjusted Science class and the team approved the extra help but then denied it. Of course, they have back-tracked there since it's an obvious violation, but it's too late to help with all those missed concepts.

I know she won't learn these skills in Adjusted Classes. Work ethic issues there. It isn't 'real-life' post-secondary experience. But, I'm frustrated because her grades where she is, if they continue, will shut out those options for her anyway.

[sharie001]

cobyseven,

It sounds like her IEP is the problem. I wouldn't take sports away if it's something she really enjoys.

I would work on getting AT and putting the word "Individual" back in her Education Program. I had similar issues with my son. The resource classes were too slow paced and frustrating for him, along with they failed to incorporate multi-sensory teaching methods. He recieved no help in reg ed classes, and gifted classes had too much paper work, and didn't use multi-sensory. Teaching methods and environment do make a difference!

The school/district is required to provide a "continuum of settings" to meet her individual needs.

My son's main issues were English, Math, and paperwork in rest of classes. We had a homebound teacher come for 7th hour to teach him English 3 days a week and a different teacher for Math 2 days a week in the school library.

We limited the number of assignments, test, etc. for all classes to state minimum of 9 plus the final exam per nine weeks. We also modified the format of assignments, test, etc., but not the content.

He went to a study skills resource class for assistance with rest of classes assignments, and he got AT. His GPA went from a .85 to almost a 3.0 immediately, he more than doubled his standardized test scores in less than a year.

We held a weekly IEP meeting with a district IEP facilitator/ODR who spoke with each of his teachers weekly to ensure the IEP was being followed, and Ryan wasn't behind. We did this for 6+ months until progress was visable. Most of the meetings consisted of Me, the facilitator, Ryan, and sometimes his case load teacher.

[cobyseven]

Well, sharie, I could use advice on this issue. Their continuum of settings doesn't work for us, but they are there.

There is 1. resource room (multi-handicapped) - inappropriate
2. Adjusted classes (would be a good fit except they are state-standard minimum classes) They don't cover anything but state minimums. The help is provided but the content is adjusted as well. She would get help and As in these classes, I'm sure. Let me clarify...she is in adjusted classes for Algebra and Language Arts. She has failed her last two Algebra tests. They do no differentiation; just co-teaching and re-teaching. Nothing different, so why bother?
3. Regular class (this is where she is but there is no resource assistance except during intervention study hall, which, by the way, she sat in the wrong study hall for over a month and no one even knew)
4. AP/IB classes - obviously not a choice.

There is no multi-sensory teaching. They do not use Structured programs. Why? District court in Illinois ruled that a district does not have to provide named programs if they had no program named to begin with. Make sense?

I have asked for OG. I have asked for Saxon. They are doing a reading eval but we can't even agree on the content of the evaluation. They want to continue to use criterion-referenced tests. crap....big bell-curve slant to the right, all the time in the world to test, but doesn't show how much longer it takes my dd to do the work than the 'average' kid in the class. Wanted to provide some ridiculous syllable-deletion test for phonemic awareness. I said pucky....want something that measures pure nonsense word decoding. She had OG through grade school and returned to this district on =grade level= but they insist that because she is a below average kid that this is the best that she is going to do. No accounting for the fact that the below average scores might be influenced by her obvious LD. Ask them, they'll tell you she's just not capable. I know better. How? Just do; I've seen her do it in the face of all sorts of adversary.

Biggest problem....she's got no gifted abilities to parade in front of them. Conversely, there is absolutely nothing that equates below-average ability scores with achievement. If they have that, I'd like them to show me the money. How did she get a 3.3 last year if she's not capable? How did she pass her Reading proficiency test (with only one score passing and above average; informational text?) How did she pass her writing proficiency in 7th grade when only one of four scores was passing....that being an above average score for her story line? Does that not tell them that the thoughts are there and she just can't make it work?

The net result is a bunch of teachers who give her grades because they are told by the team that she is incapable. They feel sorry for her (but, by the way, tell me NOT to put her in adjusted classes!)

It's all so frustrating and totally exemplified by sld123's post on illusion. This could be my daughter.

[SharonF]

coby--

I feel your pain.

There is a stark reality that I've found, and I believe you are finding as well. There is no Specially Designed Instruction at the high school level. IDEA has not changed the culture nor the practice in our high schools. For kids with learning differences, high schools only offer "placement." Kids like yours and mine can struggle to survive in Reg-ed placement or be stuck in the dungeons of dumbed-down support classes.

IEPs that promise "extra math help across the curriculum" sound good but usually, no educator is responsible for delivering that help. And if you start pushing too hard for help in a college-prep/reg-ed class, the school's answer is to put your kid in a more restrictive placement. There is no "individual education" in high school IEPs. Just placement options.

I don't know exactly what your LEA means by "Adjusted Classes." Is is reg-ed curriculum co-taught by a reg-ed teacher and a SpEd teacher? Or modified curriculum in a SpEd-only class taught by a SpEdteacher?

In either case, my experience has been that the only "support" is making sure all kids wrote down the assignment in their planner. There is no time nor mandate for differentiating the instruction.

I think what you're saying is that placement is not the answer for your daughter. It sounds like you believe the answer is Specially Designed Instruction. SDI is definitely IDEA's answer. Too bad our high schools don't feel compelled to offer SDI--or don't have a clue how to offer it. They only offer placement.

As I've said before, we tried their lower-functioning placements and it was a bad fit. So my kids have made it work in reg-ed classes with the help of a private tutor and a LOT of hard work.

[cobyseven]

I know you know what I mean, Sharon.

I have a state-sponsored IEP facilitator coming in to our next IEP meeting. I would like to make the best use of that facilitator. The school agrees and is concerned about her Algebra. She has too many 'holes' in her math learning. We both agree there, but I have not been offered a reasonable solution. There really isn't a place to go except to repeat Algebra next year. This isn't going to work for her and then she is in danger of continuing high school ater age 18 because she won't be able to complete Geometry and AII. Oh...she has a C in Algebra, but we all know she isn't 'getting' it.

This is why I'm frustrated with her. I can't discuss that need with the IEP facilitator there unless I'm absolutely sure that she is doing EVERYTHING she is suppose to do.

The lower-fit classes definitely aren't right...even the teachers have told me that.

You've hit the nail on the head, but I'm not ready to quit trying to negotiate with the IEP team to come up with something better.

I could have filed three complaints already this year. There will be more. Letting it slide for a bit has shown me the holes in her IEP that, at least, I can correct at this negotiation.

She needs the structure, but a state-minimum class is not the answer. It won't get us to her goals.

[cobyseven]

Let me clarify....the content is adjusted to a slower pace in Adjusted Classes but still covers state-minimum requirements. So, it is supported but 'adjusted' content. Also contains all the kids with work ethic issues.

[cinderbell]

I feel you. I have this same problem with my dd who is still in MS. There are no classes/programs for the students who are in the middle of the road-have too much ability to be in a watered-down curriculum, but reg ed classes are too fast-paced.

I wish there was an easy answer as far as school "setting" goes, but from what I am experiencing for my dd, there simply aren't any.

Like you, I don't intend to give up easily on this....either "option" isn't working:(

[SharonF]

So, it is supported but 'adjusted' content. Also contains all the kids with work ethic issues.

Thanks. Our LEA used to offer something similar with a different name.

They claimed it met all state curriculum requirements but was taught by a SpEd teacher. Nope. It was dumbed-down curriculum in a self-contained setting. It was a way to get kids with learning differences out of reg-ed classes. But it violated LRE.

Our LEA stopped offering that placement and now offers "Inclusion" for some classes. Inclusion is supposed to be a mix of reg-ed and SpEd kids, co-taught by a reg-ed and SpEd teacher. It's supposed to meet all state curriculum requirements. But it's a joke. Kids with "work ethic issues" is an understatement! Inclusion classes are dumping grounds for kids no one wants to teach.

Last year when dd was floundering in reg-ed Algebra II despite her IEP jammed with math goals, the SpEd Director's response was "we don't offer Inclusion for Algebra II" and told me I had to talk to the principal.

I told her I didn't want Inclusion. I wanted Specially-Designed Instruction as federal law and state regs demand. I wanted her to meet the math goals as written on her IEP and agreed upon by the IEP team. I was told that the teachers cannot adapt their instructional methods in a college-prep class. The only option was to put dd in a dumbed-down math class (not accepted by colleges.)

I refused the dumbed-down placement. They refused to provide SDI.

dd passed Algebra II with a D because the teacher never gave up on dd and dd worked her fanny off.

Your dd is so much like mine. My dd is terrible at algebraic thinking. Maybe you just have to get your daughter through the algebra classes so she can do better in Geometry and more practical/visual types of higher-order math.

Myt dd has an 89 in Advanced Functions and Modeling. It's a college-prep class students here can take after Algebra II. It's how to use math in the real world to solve real problems. And after all of her struggles over the years in math, dd is doing great.

While they use algebra, geometry, logarithims and trigonometry, it is not a bunch of theories. They do things like developing mathematical models to determine how long it takes a human body to process and eliminate caffeine. Or determine the pro-rated cost of a major purchase to a business.

Your dd is very literal and hands on. So is mine. After years of math classes that seemed so abstract, she is finally able to use that math knowledge in a concrete way. And finally, math is making some sense to her!!

So slog through it. Have her work with a private tutor to take some pressure off you, if you can afford it. Don't put her in slower classes unless she absolutely has no other options. She will not develop necessary academic skills or improve her work ethic in those classes!

[sharie001]

cobyseven,

Hang-on, I gotta go get my boots on for all this BS they are telling you, lol.

Which state are you in, if you don't mind saying? Just wondering how far away you are from me, I could use a vacation, and sounds like you need an advocate, lol.

What you listed is NOT a continuum of settings! A continuum has no end. Meaning if they have to create a class just for her, then so be it. If you request an AT eval they must do it. They must use researched based methods of instruction. Multi-sensory is a generic term, but you can require that all of her teachers recieve training in multi-sensory teaching methods. If she needs OG b/c that is what works then they must provide it.


Assuming you've requested PWN on AT, class settings, basically all you listed above, how did they respond?

Have you filed any complaints with the State or US DOE? Have you spoken with district administrators.

You may have to use some of my "Creative Tactics" to get them to do right. I did at least one new tactic a week until they either complied with my request or came up with a reasonable alternative. Ever watched the movie Shawshank Redemption? In that movie Andy Dufrene wanted a library for the prision, everyone said he was dreaming, he wrote a letter a week requesting funds until they sent him money for library just to shut him up. Then he wanted to do an addition so he started writting two letters a week.

The sqweaky wheel gets the oil.

[cobyseven]

sharie001,

I have requested PWN for the request for Saxon and the request for OG. They don't have to put it in an IEP. Said so in writing. And, caselaw supports them, as I mentioned. They don't HAVE a structured method, so they don't have to provide an alternate structured method. Yes, it's true. I would be chasing my tail on that one, so I requested an IEP facilitator instead.

I would be happy to review the whole ball of wax with you off-line, but I didn't see my requests for structured programs as actually getting anywhere because of this caselaw. Not only that, I'm not too darn sure where this would go into her schedule.

Before you get too excited about what you might do to help me advocate, I suggest you read Ohio's due process rulings. Not a one in favor of parents that I could find.

AND, if I decide to barrage them a variety of complaints (which I am still open to do just not sure what constitutes a valid complaint), I'm quite sure there will be retaliation that includes my dd. Her academic position is pretty fragile, so it's a BIG chance to take.

However, I could really use some step-by-step guidance, probably by subject, as each issue has it's own background (e.g. reading, math, etc.)

If you are willing to guide me, I'll listen because I'm really frustrated!!

[cinderbell]

Hmmm, continuum of services....thanks Sharie for explaining what this means....

Good luck Cobyseven....it is difficult to be between a rock and a hard place:(

[sharie001]

Cobyseven,

Check your messages, I just sent ya one.

LOL, who said anything about Due Process, there are much faster and more efficient and effective ways of adjusting their attitude.

You think your state's DP outcomes are unfavorable to parents, hmmmn you should see mine. Even the complaint process is crooked, lol, I fixed that by faxing the state's head attorney telling him I had a recorded conversation of one of his attorneys making discriminatory statements, and violating the laws.

Sometimes you got to "be as mean as possible in the niciest way", as my granny says. I always came to the meetings with a smile and homemade cookies, etc.. I put my disagreements and request in writing, and cc'd all supervisors (including state and federal).

[wimom]

Thanks for this thread, Coby, I know you are ready to tear you hair out over this but, I have learned alot reading this thread. I am heading into an annual IEP on Monday and have planning for Middle School included and Contiunation of Services is just the term I need to (and frankly didn't know) to unlock some info from them as to what is or isn't available for dd. I fear my dd running into many of the same issues you are discribing. She scores very high in Science and social studies but barely makes basic in Math so I see red flags all over. The supports in place now I can't see a middle school or high school teacher providing.

Sharon, your discription of your dd in algebra gives me hope about my dd in the future with this subject. Currently we are banging our heads with the most basic of algabric functions in 5th and she is totaly lost. But she understands more complex areas -- charting, geometry that they have done.

[cobyseven]

wimom, the lesson here is don't let them slide through this in middle school because it becomes dangerous territory in high school.

[cobyseven]

Thought I'd let everyone know that dd got a C on her Global History quiz. Up from four prior Fs.
That's the net effect of field hockey. I hope the tutor will help, but I'm already questioning her methods and have to ask her about this tonight.

[sharie001]

I'd take a "C" over an "F" any day!

My daughter (she doesn't have any LD's, and I suspect may be gifted, but didn't qualify when tested) is an Honor student, in Band, ROTC, and Church choir (she is my little nerd, and that is a good thing). I expect nothing less than A's in reg ed classes and no less than B's in accelerated classes (honors, ap, etc.). I have these expectations because I know she is capable, and it is required from the colleges she wants to attend. I only check her grades online a couple times per 9wks (mostly to see if they marked her absent when she was in another school function, she hates to miss school), she is harder on herself than I am about her grades.

My son on the other hand is a totally different story. He has been evaluated numerous times over his academic career (2 of which he qualified for gifted and 2 he didn't). He has several LD's and is my challenge in life. I was overjoyed when he got a "C", despite knowing he could do more. My goal was to get us (I went to school almost as much as he did) through high school.

It is amazing how different children can be who have the same parents, etc..