ADHD a mild form of Autism?

[Dimples]

Hi all. I posted this question on another board here and was directed to look for "Coach" saying that she is well-versed on the subject. I saw this statement--"Remember ADHD is just a mild form of Autism" somewhere on the boards today and was just dumbstruck. My son has been dx'd with inattentive ADD. One thing that has always struck me is that he loves to 'rock'. When he was less than a year old he would put himself to sleep on the couch by rocking back and forth. He is now 12 and to this day he still loves to rock in the car. Not when anyone is with us mind you but when it's just our family he does it. I always knew it was a form of self stim behavior but not sure why. I would love any insights and info anyone might have. Coach if you're out there, please respond. Thanks!

[ohmama]

Dimples,
I found the post I was thinking of and bumped it up for you, "ADHD vs Autism". Hope that helps. I'm sure Coach will check in soon.

Here's a site from one of Coach's posts you may want to investigate for your research ....

www.autismanswer.com/forum/

[coach1]

Yes it is correct from what I have read that ADHD or ADD is just a mild form on th Autism Spectrum. I mostly read about this from DR. Amy Yasko on the www.autismanswer.com message board for parents.

You see when it gets down to the neurochemistry that controls thinking and learning and remembering things, behavior, its about balancing brain chemistry. What causes the imbalances are more or less severe. Autism is more severe form such as gut issues , heavy metals in the body , not having ability to do chemical conversions in the body to properly make other higher level chemicals like Neurotransmitters in the brain. There are methylation pathways that are like the super highways in the body to make chemicals that used for a wide variation of things. Kids can have Genetics issues with certain parts of these pathways that dictates certain vitamin supplements for boost these short comings of the pathway thus causeing like road blocks. There is now genetic testing available to find out if your child has any of these genetic issues. These methylation is used to detoxify the body. These are just a few of the issues that can happen. Autism is just a more severe or just more of issues that cause probems in the chemical balancing act of the brain and body. An ADHD child may just have more minor issues that are more easily address. Dr. Amy Yasko says she can walk into any class room and see minor traits of autistic behavors in most of the kids but some kids have learnd to adapt to them , its the other kids thats get over whelmed with to many issues to handle that get thrown into adhd or even worse autism. Its all an issue with the chemical functioning of the body with a genetic basis to why kids ar all different. Plus some kids may just be not eat well of getting the correct nutrition, thats were supplements comes in. Plus expose to toxins in the enviorment of a child with a weakened methylation pathway that can not detox the body properly is as formula for having issues.

[Dimples]

Thanks coach for your reply. I just did not know that ADD/ADHD was considered part of the spectrum but it certainly makes sense. That would maybe explain my son's rocking behavior. I hate to tell him not to do it and he doesn't do it when people other than family members are around. I just wish we could find a med that doesn't cause side effects. He's on Adderall XR 20 mg. but I can see that his focus isn't what it was at the beginning of the year. He's also having headaches and some stomachaches. I guess that just goes along with it. Thanks for the replies everyone!

[coach1]

Dimples,

I would get him off the stimulants since you say they are not working that good anymore, thats most likely the cause of the rocking.

Read the stuff on this board and first get him on some nutritional stuff first.

I would get the neurotransmitter testing done to see exactly whats going on. Then you can go right at whats the root cause without creating side effects like rocking behaviors.

Check out www.neurorelief.com for more info on the testing.

[Dimples]

He's been rocking since he was a baby. He would rock on the couch when he was a year old and he wasn't on meds then so I don't know what to think. What does the testing tell a person? Is it a diagnostic tool for autism or add?

[rhyanen]

I am also one who believes that there is a good possibility that ADHD is on the mildest end of the austism spectrum. Having a son with ADHD and another with autism, I can see so many similarities. We actually had my older ADHD son evaluated for an autism spectrum disorder because so many of his symptoms were descriptive of autistic behavior, but after 2 evaluations, he was diagnosed with ADHD inattentive type, auditory processing disorder, and sensory integration disorder. Combined, to me it looks more like Aspergers, which is what I have recently been diagnosed with. Autism and ADHD really seem to run in families, mine being one of them.

Another thing I have noticed is that many autistic children tend to have an ADHD sibling in their family.

I believe in the immune system problems with both ADHD and autism. My autistic son also has Celiac disease, a severe intolerance to gluten causing an autoimmune reaction and has to be on a gluten free diet to prevent further injury to his intestinal tract. But after he started the diet, surprisingly, his autistic behaviors lessened too.

My ADHD son was also tested for Celiac, but was found to only have mild gluten intolerance that does not cause the intestinal damage. unfortunatley, he will not stick to the diet like his brother, even though I am sure it would really help many of his problems. And I'm not one for medication use, so it doesn't leave us many options.

I have read that alot of diagnoses of Asperger's are misdiagnosed as ADHD. Sometimes it's so hard to tell!

I guess one of the defining things about autism is the communication and socialization difficulties, and the repetitive and stereotyped interests that aren't as commonly seen in classic ADHD cases. So I always wonder about a child who has only been diagnosed with ADHD, yet has other subtle autistic behaviors, and whether they have been properly diagnosed.

I still think my son could be on the spectrum despite his ADHD diagnosis.

Amy

[pattislp]

My son is now 19 and he is a lifer when it comes to rocking... He wore out an upholstered rocking chair before he was 5 yrs. old...He will also rock when playing video games, watching tv, listening to music, playing the guitar.

He was also diagnosed ADD-Inattentive at 14 years of age and took stims until 19...Of my 4 kids with ADHD he is the one I would say is definitely in the spectrum...because of these following behaviors:.

he will perseverate on things....he likes routine...doesn't like change...he would have meltdowns when he didnt' get his way or he couldnt' let go of something, he has problems with pragmatics and social skills, he will talk a person's ear off about his favorite perseveration but he won't listen to them as readily...

Meds worked for awhile but as he became older and an adult at 19 he decided he didn't want to take meds anymore.

I think rocking s just a way for him to stimulate his brain and calm himself down. It is the most amazing thing to watch...he is the only one of my 4 kids who has done this since he was little...It is kind of funny seeing a 6'2" man rocking now...

When he was on Adderall we didn't see the rocking...now that he is off, we see the rocking much more...it is as if his body needs the rocking to stimulate his brain or something...

[coach1]

Pattislp,

Sounds like high norepinephrine and High Glutamate levels. There are nutritional supplements that will help with those issues. I would start with a urine sample test for the levels of neurotransmitters in the brain, then you know what to treat and not be shooting in the dark.

[dawn14320]

Although I don't know the answer to this, I would like to share with you my childhood experience. I am now 29 years old, I am a twin and growing up my sister and I both rocked on the couch. We didn't do it in front of people but did it all the time. We didn't stop doing it until we moved out I was 17 and my sister was 18. I can remember us getting violent sometimes when things didn't go our way at home. We fought a lot with each other. We were both allergic to the pertussis vaccine DTap - we would take half in liquid and half in a shot when we got the DTaP. Our Dad was exposed to Agent Orange in Vietnam as well. Neither of us were taken to the Doctor for our "rocking on the couch" our parent just thought of it as a habit. Some of our cousins did it when they grew up. After reading this.... I am very suprised to think that there was more to it than just a habit. We both were very smart, and my sister graduated with honors. I was distracted with boys in high school and still graduated a half a year early and Algebra was so easy for me - State Exam I scored a perfect 100 never studied. My sister and I loved cheese - Im just throwing that out there because my son had severe colic as a baby, now he loves cheese like we did and has some traits that would probably put him categorized with autism or ADD/ADHD. If anyone would like to ask me anything about my rocking on the couch, feel free to message me and I will do my best to answer anything. (my sister and I 'day dreamed' and were sort of in a whole different world while we did it)

[healthy11]

Dawn14320, thank you for sharing your experiences. I have a neighbor whose daughter used to rock and flap her arms as as a youngster, causing some people to be concerned, but by the time she reached school age, she no longer did those things (at least not in public.) Like you and your sister, she's a very good student who be graduating from college next year, and it doesn't seem like she has any long-term problems. Although a particular behavior may tend to be associated with certain conditions, it doesn't mean that everyone who displays it (in this case, rocking) has those issues.

[pm1978]

I have been browsing over some of the post on here and found "adhd a mild form of autism" very interesting. I have a 14 yr old who was diagnosed with adhd and he had also had lead poisoning as a toddler. I also have an 8 yr old that was diagnosed with adhd at the age of 5. He had always been a bit different than my other 2 children. I noticed from an early age he couldn't sit still, he was extremely impulsive which put him in dangerous situations. I kept taking him back an forth to his doctor as early as 18 months constantly, I felt in my heart something wasn't right and I suspected adhd. The doctor's refused to diagnose him because they said he was too young. I even had a resident behavioral therapist insult me and asked me if I have tried time out or "if I tell my son that I love him". Which needless to say I went off on her, I wasn't a first time "new" mom. I already had 2 other children that never exhibited these behaviors. I mean he was so fearless it scared the crap out of me and I feared for him. In any case I clicked on the link, an started reading some of the early symptoms of autism in babies. It was then that something really stuck out, and made me think of my 8 yr old. "No big smiles or other warm, joyful expressions by six months or thereafter". My son as a baby wouldn't smile until he was about 8 months, he would just look around with a very serious look. I thought it was strange, I mean what baby doesn't smile or giggle. I would tell friends an family that maybe it was because I was so angry all the time during my pregnancy due to issues with his father. I had also mentioned my concern to the doctor during our regular visits, but they didn't make anything of it. He has an appointment tomorrow and I would like to have this investigated further. I mean he does seems to exhibit other symptoms as well, but I can't be sure if his adhd is another contributor. Reading these posts have been very informative and helpful. Thank you all for sharing, I only wish I had found this site sooner!

[SharonF]

pm--

If you didn't see it, I referenced your post when I commented on this thread: millermom.proboards.com/thread/13690/activate-brain-training-program-kids

Be aware that the Autism Spectrum is very broad and complex. There is classic Autism. There is High Functioning Autism (HFA). I still think of Asperger's Syndrome as being different from HFA. There is Nonverbal Learning Disability. There is PDD-NOS.

Each of those has its own traits. Sometimes they can be intense. Sometimes they are mild.

If you put ALL of those possible traits into a list, you have a list of traits that can be found on the Autism Spectrum.

No one on the Spectrum has all of the traits. Some people only have a few traits--a few "bits and pieces" you might say.

Whether a child has a "disorder" or not usually depends on whether the traits are numerous enough or intense enough to disrupt daily interactions, daily activities and daily function.

I think of the Autism Spectrum as being like a rainbow. All of the colors of the rainbow are colors. But they are not exactly alike. Red is not yellow is not blue. And even if the color is green, kelly green is not lime green is not forest green.

Your son may match some of the colors, shades or hues wihtin that Spectrum rainbow. Those traits may or may not be enough for a diagnosis. But knowing about those traits may give you a greater understanding of how his mind works and what his behavior triggers are. That understanding can be essential to figuring out a more effective 504 or eligibility for an IEP. And how to effectively parent him through those challenging teenage years!

[empeg1]

Sharon:

There is a brand new study looking at the brain in NVLD. The researcher that children with NVLD has smaller spleniums, an area of the corpus callosum, white matter that connects the right and left hemispheres, than children with Asperger's and ADHD. It is published in the journal, Neuropsychology.

[healthy11]

pm1978, first, let me say "welcome" to Millermoms forum. I saw your other posts, too, and understand how frustrating it can be to get a proper diagnosis. As SharonF already mentioned, many times children exhibit a wide range of symptoms that don't cleanly fit into a single, simple diagnostic code. Other posters have used the term, "like peeling an onion," to describe the unpleasant process of uncovering different "layers." Many parents here at Millermom can tell you that their children were initially diagnosed with ADHD, but over time, an "alphabet soup" list of other conditions were identified (like LDs, CAPD, OCD, FASD, etc...) My own son fits into that category, too, with his non-stop activity and short attention span being noted initially, but only after he got to be school age did his difficulties with reading and writing become apparent, and he was diagnosed with SLDs (specific learning disabilities.) My son's lead testing came back negative, and neither myself or my husband has ADHD, so we aren't sure where our son's attention difficulties came from.

I did find this interesting article regarding lead and mercury exposure and their relationship to ADHD: www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/2012/adhd-lead-and-mercury Mayo Clinic describes chelation and EDTA treatments for lead poisoning: www.mayoclinic.com/health/lead-poisoning/FL00068/DSECTION=treatments-and-drugs
In your other post, you also asked what might be helpful in the way of computer training for teens with ADHD... some people have found Cogmed to be beneficial, but again, what helps one person may not help all. Here is a link to previous discussions about Cogmed: millermom.proboards.com/thread/13343/cogmed-training-recommendations

[kewpie]

Lots of kids first get an adhd diagnosis before they get a "true" diagnosis. Attention issues are an extremely common issue among a host of learning issues including autism. Its the easiest to pick up on but may not be true adhd.

I STRONGLY disagree about adhd and autism being the same. I have two kids with adhd and one with High Functioning Autism. The HFA kid is the only one who does NOT take meds because HFA kids tend to focus on details vs the big picture and have poor eye contact which causes professionals who don't understand the wide characteristics of autism to think its adhd. He also had poor executive functioning which are common to adhd and HFA. He has excellent working memory, visual memory and processing skills. Those skills are deficient in people with ADHD.
Meds may help temporarily with memory and processing but it won't fix executive functioning.

[Tanya]

This is a very interesting thread to me. I have always considered my boy as a medical mystery. He has an ADHD combined and developmental delay diagnosis, but I have always believed that we are missing a piece of his puzzle. There is just so much overlap of symptoms/characteristic of all these conditions which make an accurate diagnosis very difficult. I remember when my boy was still an infant I even asked some of his service providers if they though autism was a possibility. I was flatly told no because he was too social. I still wonder about him falling somewhere on the spectrum.

[empeg1]

One must be careful about blanket statements even if the point is presented by an "expert". There just isn't enough research or data to back up a statement that ADHD is a mild form of Autism. Sharon, yes, ASD is a spectrum disorder, with differences between individuals diagnosed. Then too, just to add complexity, another disability is also being researched for its relationship to Autism Spectrum Disorder; yes, Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders. BTW, 97% of individuals with Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders are diagnosed with ADHD, an acquired form of ADHD, not inherited. Then too, research on ADHD does not determine which subjects have been exposed to alcohol during the pregnancy, thus confiding all research on ADHD. Ooops.

All 3, Autism Spectrum Disorder, AD/HD, and FASD are all neurodevelopmental disabilities, likely all 3 with subtypes, the DSM 5 non-withstanding.

[SharonF]

empeg--

Thank you for sharing additional research about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and helping the rest of us understand how it is alike yet different from more commonly discussed learning and life issues.

As you note, ADHD-like traits are found in various disorders, syndromes and diagnoses. There can be overlap and gray areas. And gray areas are not limited to ADHD.

Autism-like traits can also be found in people without autism. My 43-year old cousin is an example. When he was born, he had hydrocephalus (excessive spinal fluid inside the skull, pressing onto and damaging parts of the brain.) He's a "Rainman" of sorts--with almost savant-like abilities in music, learning foreign languages and remembering numbers. He can recite the family tree back many generations. Yet he has extreme difficulty with pragmatic language. And he struggles with basic life skills from managing money to washing his laundry.

Many of my cousin's traits seem similar to those found in autism. And he might benefit from programs designed for autistic adults who struggle with social skills and keeping a job. But he does not have an autism diagnosis and therefore has not been allowed into those programs. They live in Germany. Likewise, there are many group homes for adults with cognitive difficulties (mental retardation), but he doesn't fit the criteria for those group homes, either.

Sometimes we are helped by labels and diagnoses. Sometimes, they just make things more difficult!

[keepthefaith]

Interesting. It's difficult to label our DD; she has ADD inattentive and a teacher recently called home to ask "did your testing show Aspergers". It's not the first time we have been asked this question.
Thanks for the links and views.

[coach1]

Havent been on this board for a while, I will make another comment that Autism and ADHD etc.. are just labels not the actual science behind how the body works. Autism most people relate to is the more severe forms. What causes these things is complex and made up of many things happening at once. Thats why there is a spectrum in Autism as kids fall all along the spectrum from ADHD to severe autism. Its my opinion its a developmental disorder as in when a child is in his or her highest rate of developmental stages their bodies chemical factories are all messed up and out of whack. If you really want to learn the science seek out Dr. Amy Yasko site as the parents on there are really deep into the science of all of this. Its also my opinion that if an adult starts having these same issues its Chronic fatigue syndrome. As an adult will have already fully developed and mentally matured but can still develop issues like these kids so it effects them differently but the science of the chemistry is the same , the body and the way it works is the same. Its just if it happens to a young child it truns into autism as it messes up ther important developmental years. If a child is mild they may say the are developmentally delay as they have been set back but are growing out of the issues. The sooner you can get the kid on the track of fixing the chemistry they will start growing out of some of the issues and some kids make some very good recoveries. Like I said If there is one thing you do check out Dr Amy Yasko's site and ask those parents some questions.

[healthy11]

The site Coach1 refers to is www.dramyyasko.com/