Licking and ADHD

[megmaguire]

Does anyone else have a problem with their child licking? We have a pre-schooler (3 yo) so it still may be a carry over from toddler-hood but he licks EVERYTHING and will even lick us!

[Brenda]

I know he's young,but does he have ADHD?If so,is he on medication?I ask because my dd started licking things on stimulants and strattera.She would lick walls,toys,tv remove,comp mouse,her hands,etc.I was told it was a tic from the stimulants.Now she's not on stimulants and the licking has stopped.It could also just be a developmental stage and his way of exploring things.

Welcome to the board.

[megmaguire]

Yes, we are about to get a formal diagnosis of ADHD -- there is a STRONG family history. He is not on meds and we are going to try the supplement route first (they are in the mail as we speak!). I guess it is just a recent development -- not a problem that we have had all along so it is a little weird.... Thanks for the heads up about the stims and your daughter's reaction!

[ohmama]

If I remember correctly swmom's daughter had/has this problem and it was helped by giving her the Omega 3 fatty acids. swmom, are you out there? Could you please update us on this?

For more info on the use of these you could check the thread in the Complementary & Alternative Medicine section of the forum "Omega 3 fatty acids". These are safe and necessary for good brain health and can be taken along with medication.

[Brenda]

ohmama said:

If I remember correctly swmom's daughter had/has this problem and it was helped by giving her the Omega 3 fatty acids. swmom, are you out there? Could you please update us on this?

For more info on the use of these you could check the thread in the Complementary & Alternative Medicine section of the forum "Omega 3 fatty acids". These are safe and necessary for good brain health and can be taken along with medication.

I believe swmom's dd has started back licking her hands.

I knew my dd had ADHD when she was 3.She was real hyper and I knew it wasn't normal.Good luck with the supplements.

[TexasMom]

One of my daughters used to smell everthing. It turns out it was related to her Sensory Integration Disfunction (SI). After going through the Occupational Therapy (OT) for the SI she stopped having to spell everthing (and often gagging when she didn't like the smell!).

Children with SI are often misdiagnosed as ADHD or can have both. Do you notice any other signs of hyper senses or dulled senses? i.e. problems with bright lights, loud noises, temperature, taste, spinning around constantly, jumping off things or into things, etc.

[megmaguire]

texasmom said:

Children with SI are often misdiagnosed as ADHD or can have both. Do you notice any other signs of hyper senses or dulled senses? i.e. problems with bright lights, loud noises, temperature, taste, spinning around constantly, jumping off things or into things, etc.

Yes, I notice sensory issues -- though not all of those to an extreme. We suspect ADHD b/c his father has recently been diagnosed at about 48% and 4 out of 9 cousins (on his dad's side) have also been diagnosed. The hyperactivity and lack of focus are the main issues. However, he DOES react to music by spinning. When you ask what he is doing he tells you he is dancing. He is also (though it is getting better) sensitive to the bath water temperature. I would not be surprised if he is also dealing with sensory issues.... what helps that?

[Mayleng]

megmaguire said:

texasmom said:

Children with SI are often misdiagnosed as ADHD or can have both. Do you notice any other signs of hyper senses or dulled senses? i.e. problems with bright lights, loud noises, temperature, taste, spinning around constantly, jumping off things or into things, etc.

Yes, I notice sensory issues -- though not all of those to an extreme. We suspect ADHD b/c his father has recently been diagnosed at about 48% and 4 out of 9 cousins (on his dad's side) have also been diagnosed. The hyperactivity and lack of focus are the main issues. However, he DOES react to music by spinning. When you ask what he is doing he tells you he is dancing. He is also (though it is getting better) sensitive to the bath water temperature. I would not be surprised if he is also dealing with sensory issues.... what helps that?

Find an Occupational Therapist who is familiar with Sensory Integration Dysfunction, and have him evaluated. Occupational Therapy can help SI, meds will not.

[TexasMom]

There is a good book about SI called "The Out of Sync Child" by Carol Stock Kranowitz. You can also search the internet on it and learn a lot too. Since you have noticed sensitivity issues I HIGHLY recommend an evaluation by an OT trained in SI. SI is very successfully treated and is considered a medical issue and therefore usually covered by insurance. Our daughter had significant improvement with only 3-4 months of once per week therapy. And even better, she loved the therapy!

Let me know how it goes. Also, let me know if you have any more questions.

[megmaguire]

We go in for his evals this Wednesday. I have called around to all sorts of providers, but basically no one will take us w/o a recommendation or referral from our pediatrician. So... we start there on Wednesday. We feel his primary issues center around ADHD -- too many characterisitcs and too much family history to deny! He many have some secondary sensory issues, but we have a little boy down the street who has full blown sensory issues and we do not have those types of problems to that degree. The licking seems to be the main one.... anyway, we will see what the doctor says and go from there. We don't plan to medicate at this point for the ADHD so if the sensory issues exist we will proceed to an OT.

[swmom]

meg -

Sorry to be so slow to respond. I've been out of town since last Thursday.

Licking, eh? We've seen that in our 10dd off and on for the last several years. Can't remember if she was doing it pre meds or not. She was doing lots of other things like flapping her hands when she was excited, twirling her hair, sucking on her hair. Before she was on the right combination of medications for ADHD and anxiety, she would lick her hands every time she started to feel nervous about something or a new situation. Both the Strattera(for ADHD) and the Lexapro(for anxiety) helped that tremendously. If she's on the right amount of especially the Strattera, she licks her hands very little. If she suddenly starts licking her hands again we know that either she's gained weight and needs to be on more Strattera or she's on too much and the Strattera is making her anxious. We've had both things happen. We were told by her psychologist and her psychiatrist that licking her hands was a compulsion as a result of her anxiety, not a tic caused by medication. She licks her hands because she thinks she needs to to calm herself down when she's feeling anxious. A few months ago, we started her on omega 3. One of the first things we noticed was the complete absence of the licking behavior. NONE!
This went on for almost a month. But then, we started seeing it again occasionally. You can literally drive yourself nuts trying to figure out what is causing them to do this, what's making them anxious, why are they doing it now when they weren't a week ago, when not much seems to have changed in their lives. I'm going to increase the omega to 3 gelcaps a day. Then, we'll be on the "therapeutic dose" which includes the 480 of the DHA. I wouldn't be surprised if the licking went away completely again. But who knows? It did make a difference in the beginning. Maybe her body has somehow adjusted to the dose and we need to up it.

I've enjoyed reading this thread, especially the part about SI. She may have some of that going on. She is sensitive to certain smells(cooked eggs send her over the edge) but nothing out of the ordinary; bath water needs to be just right but that doesn't seem weird either. She's not wild about going to "loud" birthday parties or being a part of "loud" activities such as swim team but I think that's because of her CAPD. Just can't carry on a decent conversation in an environment like that. I don't know. Maybe I should look into that.
Hmmm.

[megmaguire]

Thanks for your post swmom. Interesting about your dd -- I see some chewing on clothes, etc. in my son as well. We just started him Saturday on omega 3 (approx. 200 mg since he is 3 yo) and are hopeful that will help some. I wonder if sensory issues and adhd often go hand in hand. It makes sense in a way b/c "over stimulation" really gets the adhd going in our son. He doesn't freak out or anything if there is a loud noise but I can see his little brain cells being stimulated and hyperactivity to follow.... We have our pediatrician's appointment in the morning to get officially diagnosed so we can get some help.... I will ask her about it and see what she has to say....

[swmom]

meg -

I think that's an interesting observation about the SI and ADHD link. I think I'll ask our psychologist about it. Let me know if you see a difference with the omega 3. We saw some changes after a week on it but my dd metabolizes things very quickly.

[tchermom]

My dd has sucked her two fingers since age one. She is now twelve and has them in her mouth constantly. We have always thought is was way to self soothe and help her anxiety. We thought she would outgrow this awful habit but it seems to be getting worse. She does not do it in school but the minute she is off the bus, in they go. I wonder if I should look into
si therapy?

[TexasMom]

I don't know if just one sensory symptom would qualify for SI, but if you at all suspect there is a sensory issue then I can't stress enough the value in having a SI evaluation by a qualified OT. OT for SI is extremely helpful. My daughter that had SI is not ADD or LD, but I sure wish there were as easy of solution for my LD/ADD son as there was for her SI!

I'm not sure that ADHD and SI go "hand in hand," but they can co-exist and also a lot of people with SI are misdiagnosed as ADHD. In addition to sensory issues, children with SI often have poor fine motor skills. However, this is not always the case. In fact, our daughter had excellent fine motor skills which surprised the OT. So if you child has poor fine motor skills this can be seen as further evidence of SI, but having good fine motor skills would not necessarily rule it out.

A couple of months ago on Schwab's message board I wrote a description of my daughter before and after SI. Here it is:

From the time our daughter was a baby one of the only words to describe her was "intense." She wasn't a bad baby or child, she wasn't what I would call hyper or ADD, she was "INTENSE."

Even though loud noises bothered her she was extremely loud herself. Her name is Danielle and we used to joke and say that we should change the spelling to DanYELL!

In addition to reacting to and avoiding certain sensations, she would seek other sensations. She had to smell everything! She was always picking things up and smelling them. Of course, if she didn't like the way it smelled she would gag. She also would run in circles sometimes. We said she was like a dog with distemper or something. She would also crash into things on purpose, like the couch, toys, people. She liked to jump off things but was afraid to step off a curb or step over the crack between the floor and an elevator! Bathtime was torturous for us (now we know it was for her too). She couldn't stand water any warmer than lukewarm, she hated having her hair washed and when you combed it she acted like you were pulling it out by the roots.

The worst though was in restaurants. She would scream the whole time and so one of us would have to leave the building or hide out in the bathroom with her. A couple years after the OT my husband and I went to dinner at a place where she had been particularly horrid several years before. We were talking and laughing about it when I was suddenly struck with a very sad thought that made me hurt for her. I suddenly realized that being in a restaurant must truly be a living hell for SI kids when you think of the lighting, noise (music, talking, dishes clanking, etc.), smells, us getting mad at her for freaking out, etc. I felt so sorry for her. I only wish I had realized then how hard it must have been on her.

The good news is she is a model child now! Not at home of course, but everywhere else. Actually, she is really good at home, just not perfect. She always gets glowing reviews from any school, church, group leader, friends parents, etc. Some even do use the word "perfect" when describing her. In fact, she just got a perfect score on the 3rd grade Reading TAKS test! She is the child we only got glimpses of when she had SI. Can you see why I said to shout for joy that you know what is wrong and that it is SI which is so much easier treated than a lot of other problems?

She still has some sensitivities. None ruin her quality of life and are all quite manageable. She will probably never wear a turtle neck without gagging or enjoy hot water, but that is OK. There are a few rare times when she is extra sensitive for some reason (probably tired and worn out or not feeling well) but I have learned to very calmly explain that she is just experiencing some sensory issues and that it really isn't as bad as she is feeling it right then. For instance, if a shirt touches her neck when she is being extra sensitive she feels like she is going to choke. I show her that it is only touching and not pressing on her neck. I explain that to most people they just feel fabric touching their skin and that it will not choke her or make it hard to breathe. That usually helps her relax and move past it, but if she still seems uncomfortable I have her change. It's not her fault and there's no reason for her to suffer. She never uses the sensory issues as a crutch or an excuse so I don't push it.

I hope this gives you some hope and optimism.

[megmaguire]

texasmom said:

The worst though was in restaurants. She would scream the whole time and so one of us would have to leave the building or hide out in the bathroom with her. A couple years after the OT my husband and I went to dinner at a place where she had been particularly horrid several years before. We were talking and laughing about it when I was suddenly struck with a very sad thought that made me hurt for her. I suddenly realized that being in a restaurant must truly be a living hell for SI kids when you think of the lighting, noise (music, talking, dishes clanking, etc.), smells, us getting mad at her for freaking out, etc. I felt so sorry for her. I only wish I had realized then how hard it must have been on her.

This is an example of what I meant about ADHD and SI being similar -- my son (the licker) is definitely ADHD but has difficulty in restaurants too. He particularly has trouble when they are busy (so we try to go early or when there are not a lot of people out). I don't think it is b/c of SI issues, but rather all of the stimulation. In this way, I think kids with ADHD and SI may exhibit similar behaviors. Interestingly enough, we went to a restaurant last night and the music was not playing and the very first thing our son said was "where is the music???"

Just as an aside (and update) we had our appointment with the pediatrician today and she said she thought the licking was probably due to taking the pacifier away several months ago. She said something could have triggered the "security" he felt when he had the pacifier and he has just substituted other things. We will see and cross our fingers that it subsides!

[swmom]

Tmom -

Thanks for sharing all that. You have convinced me to go ahead and get an SI eval done. I think we may have some of that going on.