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Post by teacherabc on May 29, 2015 15:31:24 GMT -5
These were his scores:
Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale-Fourth Edition (WAIS-IV) Composite Score Percentile Classification Verbal Comprehension 110 75 Average Range Perceptual Reasoning 113 81 High Average Range Working Memory 128 97 Superior Range Processing Speed 108 70 Average Range Full Scale 117 87 High Average Range
Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale-Fourth Edition (WAIS-IV) Composite Score Percentile Classification Verbal Comprehension 110 75 Average Range Perceptual Reasoning 113 81 High Average Range Working Memory 128 97 Superior Range Processing Speed 108 70 Average Range Full Scale 117 87 High Average Range
Composites Standard Score Percentile Classification Basic Reading 109 73 Average Range Mathematics 130 92 Above Average Range Math Fluency 124 95 Above Average Range Written Expression 88 21 Average Range
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Post by teacherabc on May 29, 2015 18:20:47 GMT -5
I looked at the BRIEF scale. There is no way that this will be done. It is something that must be paid for and must be administered by a psychologist. Ours wouldn't do it.
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Post by michellea on May 29, 2015 20:27:51 GMT -5
My son's working memory is above average. Nobody would deny that he has ADHD as well as executive functioning deficits. WM is not the only measure of EF. Other mental health issues impact one's metacognition and efficiency. I know that he was in private school. But from your posts earlier in the year, he always struggled. Too bad nobody (the school and family) questioned what was going on before he got to you. Seems there were signs that were either overlooked or swept under the rug. That is what I meant.
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Post by teacherabc on May 29, 2015 20:39:05 GMT -5
It is unfortunate. I don't know if he always struggled, or at least has, since last year. I know that the suspicion is that there are a lot of unresolved issues from what happened with his mom years ago. I know that I just got an email from him thanking me for taking him on this trip and how he had fun...he is rarely emotional. The fact that he actually was brought tears to my eyes.
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Post by kewpie on Jun 2, 2015 9:16:15 GMT -5
>By the way, we had that gigantic trip with 140 freshmen and this kid was an amazing assistant chaperone. He really stepped up. He checked all of the kids in our group, kept head counts, and totally navigated us everywhere we needed to go (I get lost in a paper bag). He was pleasant and responsible.<
This is an irony, that may lead others to believe he is capable and responsible in academics. My younger son is like that. He has leadership qualities, can find his way around many places as his spacial talents are keen. BUT he can't pass a college essay course to save his life, in spite of great IQ testing. Every room he goes thru, looks like a bomb exploded in it. His EF just sucks. He also has really good processing and WM speed but his conclusions/logic are way out there some times. He has great ideas but cannot execute on a consistent basis. Psychs need to consider real evidence that happens in class and at home. Not just working memory and processing speed.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 2, 2015 16:38:03 GMT -5
I know...but never going to convince the school psychologist of that. However, in the meantime, the 504 is in the works.
I have seen many instances where our kids who can't get the academics can shine in other areas...the two don't necessarily coincide. Meanwhile, fighting another battle--they won't let him come into the building early even with a note because of the smokebomb incident...He was supposed to finish a test. He couldn't come in. I have a problem with this...you do something dumb, you get punished and it should be behind you...
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 3, 2015 20:10:56 GMT -5
It will be down to the wire in getting the 504 documentation. Meanwhile, the math teacher wants to shoot herself--the kid got all but one of the multiple choice questions on the common core geometry test right...still going to going to summer school for math...
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Post by healthy11 on Jun 3, 2015 20:52:59 GMT -5
I'm confused...why does the math teacher want to shoot herself, and why does the boy have to go to summer school if he got all but one question on the common core math test correct? ( or are there more than just multiple choice questions? )
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 3, 2015 21:28:00 GMT -5
There are...but the reason she is so frustrated is that he will probably ace this exam but still fail the class because he doesn't hand in written work.
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Post by kewpie on Jun 4, 2015 10:06:32 GMT -5
This breaks my heart. This sounds like deja vu.
>>he will probably ace this exam but still fail the class because he doesn't hand in written work.<
Ms Know it all Psych should realize that is a GLARING example of EF.
This behavior sounds EXACTLY like my son's friend who committed suicide a few days before his high school graduation. He could not reconcile the fact is was so gifted, (he even won some awards) but he could not turn in his assignments on time. He had a loving caring supportive family too but the criticism/skepticism from school staff over the years was unbearable for him. He had a rough time in Catholic school and attempted suicide in 8th grade. He went to a LD high school for 2 years and things were pretty good. He returned to the mainstream and it all went downhill.
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Post by kewpie on Jun 4, 2015 10:15:05 GMT -5
Quick thought: There is a 20 point disparity between his Written expression (88) and his next lowest score of 108. There is a 42!!!! point discrepancy between his written expression and the highest score. Why couldn't this discrepancy be the basis of an SLD classification? He obviously will not be able to demonstrate what he truly is capable of with his writing skills so much lower than his other skills.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 4, 2015 15:49:31 GMT -5
Seeing as how I was the target of snarky comments by my supervisor who talked about how kids shouldn't be referred for an evaluation without a staff discussion and teacher reports and the whole nine yards...and while she had started out talking about other students, then named this one, clearly referring to me..., I don't think anything but a 504 will be even considered. This is even though what happened was, in a discussion about academics and his writing problems with dad on the phone, he asked me how or if he could get his son extra time on the Regents. I told him the ways, not recommending either course but suggested that he think about it, discuss it as a family, then he could come back to me and we could take it further. Then a few months later, dad said to me the therapist recommended he ask for an evaluation, at which point I told my supervisor and, as far as I was concerned, the issue was moot: he asked for an evaluation and under federal law he had the right to do so. I am guessing my supervisor wanted me to tell her about the initial call where he asked about it, and perhaps she was right. But I am so disgusted--we have never had staff meeting as regularly as we should have because they are often canceled and postponed and when we do, we are talking about the same kids over and over...I am supposed to bring him up more than I did (we talked about him once)...There is no way anyone is going to consider a SLD and if I suggest to dad that he appeal the decision to deny the IEP, I am supposed to risk being disciplined?
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 5, 2015 6:06:00 GMT -5
Yesterday there were no classes. It was a PD day but our principal allowed us to do our own thing, which includes helping kids. This kid comes in at 9:30. He has to write this story which will determine if he passes the class or not. He spends the entire day in the math room. When I see him in the hall, I ask him how the story is going. He is quite literally dodging me and finally says he has other stuff to do. At 12:15 tonight he emails me what he has, which is a bunch of bullet points; nothing resembling a story, with an email saying that writing the story is proving difficult. No surprise there. He cannot start writing without knowing what he will write. He does not really know how to prewrite for himself. Add into this the fact that it is fiction and much harder to prewrite in the conventional sense. He is completely lost. And we have our field day tomorrow which means it will be at Saturday school that I try and help him create some way to organize and write this.
I looked at hat he wrote this morning. Abusive family so boy gives up soul for revenge Boy comes into unwanted contact with devil and causes death of parents Police don’t believe his story Has hatred toward devil School records show that he’s good except for one fight that was taken too far So they give him to parents willing to adopt Foster parents are kind and caring They can’t deal with pent up aggression and give him up Transferred to a new foster home with two parents and two other kids He feels alone and feels that no one understands him Figures out how he did it the first time and summons the devil again to express his hatred Devil says he can make things better Boy slaughters family and becomes somewhat deranged Devil sees potential in the boy and asks boy to be his main servant for eternity Boy goes on total rampage so the devil kills the boy End
Is it me or is this disturbing? It is supposed to be a gothic story, but still. I will show this to the school psychologist this morning because maybe I am paranoid but I am not sure I am qualified to determine if this work of fiction represents what is going on his mind or not...
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Post by dw on Jun 5, 2015 7:17:07 GMT -5
Are there any privacy concerns about posting a student's test scores and story outline here? I know you are anonymous, and the student is anonymous, but we do know a little bit about you, teacherabc. It seems different when I, as a parent, post my child's test scores, or school work, but different when the teacher posts the test scores. Or do you have the student's father's permission? Maybe I am wrong, and am quite willing to be corrected. I am so inundated constantly with keeping my patients' information private, it made me wonder.
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Post by healthy11 on Jun 5, 2015 10:14:43 GMT -5
Teacherabc, I also find the content of the boy's "outline" to be disturbing, and I think you are doing the right thing by showing it to the school psychologist. Didn't you say you also were allowed to contact the boy's private therapist? I would probably share it that person, too.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 5, 2015 14:44:56 GMT -5
The school psychologist took the copy and we will share it with the therapist who is coming in Tuesday for the meeting. There are bigger problems looming for he stole something...suspension...who knows what...
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 8, 2015 4:37:27 GMT -5
And there is a meeting at 7:45 this morning about the incident with the Assistant Principal. I am afraid they are going to ask for a Superintendent's Suspension.
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Post by healthy11 on Jun 8, 2015 10:51:05 GMT -5
Obviously, we don't know what the boy did, but I hope the boy's father was in attendance and the fact that the boy is in process of being evaluated was considered. His therapist clearly needs to know about what's happening.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 8, 2015 12:30:34 GMT -5
This was a conference with the dad and the kid. He is suspended for this week, the last week of the marking period. Dad is besides himself because he says his son is a compulsive liar. I know that what the kid told dad did not jive with what I had heard happened. The therapist already knows.
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Post by michellea on Jun 8, 2015 16:05:19 GMT -5
Sad and disappointing turn of events for all.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 8, 2015 17:27:48 GMT -5
I can't remember a day when I have wanted to strangle so many people. We are having a meeting where an IEP is going to be denied but where a 504 was going to be given. Except that we have not gotten the paper because the clinic supposedly faxed it to us and we never got it. Meanwhile, the clinic is a few blocks away and we could have sent someone to get it. When I called the therapist, she was "trying to track down the paper" because she is at a different site. So, we have meeting set for 8:15 tomorrow with about nine adults and one (most likely) nervous teenager in a room and nothing is really going to happen unless a miracle happens because the clinic isn't open before 8:15 so we can't go and get it. And we will have to have another meeting...the 504 is to get him extra time on the Regents and the first exam is next Tuesday.
Then, the school psychologist is telling me things that I know are wrong. The subject of whether there should be an IEP based on ED comes up again. She says we "don't want to go down that route." We don't yet have a diagnosis from the clinic so this is not something I am going to argue at this point. But she says, "I wouldn't do it because the only thing I could do is give him counseling and extra time on the test" and her implication is that the 504 would do that. I ask her why wouldn't it possibly give him two teachers in a class. And she says it wouldn't, suggesting that an IEP based on ED wouldn't make him eligible for coteaching...What the heck?
Then, the therapist calls me and during the course of this conversation, she asks (without me saying anything previously), when there is a diagnosis, why couldn't there be an IEP for ED...
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Post by healthy11 on Jun 8, 2015 21:28:34 GMT -5
An IEP would definitely give the boy more "legal" protection, ie, Manifestation Determination for his behavioral problems, and it's supposed to meet his educational needs, so I'm not sure why he couldn't get coteaching if the team decided that it could be useful as well as help with executive function issues, in addition to counseling. www2.ed.gov/parents/needs/speced/iepguide/index.html
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Post by michellea on Jun 9, 2015 9:25:23 GMT -5
The disability category doesn't dictate services or goal areas. One can qualify for an IEP under OHI for diabetes, but if reading is below grade level could get reading services. I would ask her to produce the state regulations, district policy or wording in IDEA that supports her statement that ED does not qualify for co-teaching. She will not be able to, because it does not exist. If the ED creates a barrier to him executing work and learning, and if an extra teacher is the intervention he needs to make appropriate progress, then he should get the extra teacher.
Good luck with the meeting, seems the TEAM is not really invested in this guy - making a lot of excuses. I can only imagine your frustration. Talk about shoveling against the tide....
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 9, 2015 18:43:38 GMT -5
At least insofar as today went, he now has a 504 with extensive accommodations (it is really an IEP minus coteaching); he gets extra time on tests, on homework and other assignments, graphic organizers and other help for writing.
However, when I saw the paperwork at the end of the day, I saw that the psychiatrist's diagnosis is ADHD. However, in my prior conversations with the school psychologist, she said it was not ADHD, because his working memory is so high. If he does have ADHD, why wouldn't have OHI been a possibility. I know that people may have felt that his problems were more caused by emotional issues than ADHD, but why wouldn't this have been discussed? My handicap was that I did not have the opportunity to see the form filled out by the psychiatrist because it came by fax a few minutes before the meeting.
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Post by michellea on Jun 9, 2015 19:57:52 GMT -5
Even with an eligibility category of OHI, he may not have qualified for an IEP. So, don't beat yourself up. Glad to see the 504 is in place, and I hope the accommodations make a difference for him.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 10, 2015 17:22:15 GMT -5
In the meantime, he is actually starting to come from behind. Apparently, when a student is suspended, they will allow him to go work with a teacher. So I had him with me for three periods and he wrote for all those periods; not without difficulty but he wrote.
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 15, 2015 5:53:46 GMT -5
The Global Regents is on Wednesday morning. Last night, his father had him do a practice essay. It took him over 2 1/2 hours to do 3/4 of one essay for the thematic essay, that would, if finished, get him a 3 (possibly a 4 but more likely a 3). It looks like the third paragraph is not quite finished and there is no conclusion. This is scary. I have never seen someone, even with an IEP, take so long to get something down. He has 4 1/2 hours for the whole test, 50 multiple choice and two essays. He cannot take 3 hours (what I estimate it would have taken him to finish it) to do one essay. I am trying to figure out what to say to him today or what it is possible to do, given severe time constraints. When I get in, I am going to ask the school psychologist for advice. I do think most of this is psychological; not skill or knowledge. He knows the stuff; he has the ability to write. But he cannot seem to get what is in his head down to the paper.
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Post by kewpie on Jun 16, 2015 9:05:39 GMT -5
> If he does have ADHD, why wouldn't have OHI been a possibility< My question exactly. Or written expression disorder. An ADHD should not solely hinge on a working memory issue. IDEA states a diagnosis/eligibility should not be based on only one test. 2 of my kids have adhd but their WM was normal.
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Post by kewpie on Jun 16, 2015 9:07:28 GMT -5
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Post by teacherabc on Jun 16, 2015 19:26:59 GMT -5
Right now, I am just trying to get through the Regents exams. I spent three hours this afternoon tutoring him and another boy for the Regents exam tomorrow. I spent most of the time with him, coaching him on how to be able to write two level two (out of five) essays, because since he does so well on multiple choice, that is all he needs to do, and writing level three essays will take him too long. The other night, his dad gave him a practice essay and he took 2 1/2 hours to write an essay without a conclusion. So I was pumping him up on strategies to write faster and how to...while with the other boy, I had to focus on the multiple choice. Then I will look into all of this...
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