Help/Input on new testing

[mykids]

Hoping to get some input on recent testing. There was quite a bit and I am listing most but for now leaving out a portion that was a self test I may post separately with some concerns.
Anyone input/thoughts on the following?

Wechsler Individual Achievement Test-Third Edition (WIAT-III)


Composite Score Summary
Composite
Standard Score
95% Confidence Interval
Percentile Rank
Qualitative Description

Total Reading = Composite
81 = Standard Score
77–85 = 95% Confidence Interval
10 = % Rank
Below Average = Qualitative Description

Basic Reading
89
85–93
23
Average

Reading Comprehension
and Fluency
75
67–83
5
Below Average

Written Expression
62
55–69
1
Low

Math Fluency
84
77–91
14
Below Average

Cognitive Functioning - Cognitive Assessment System (CAS)


CAS TEST SCORES
PASS Scales/ Description Standard Score (SS) Percentile Rank Description
Subtests Scaled Score (ScS)
Planning Ability to develop and use a plan (strategies) to solve problems 77 (73-88) 6th Low

Matching Numbers Scan and identify like number sets 5 Low

Planned Codes Scan and code letters 7 Average

Simultaneous Ability to understand relationships among parts of stimuli to form a comprehensive whole 108 (101-114) 70th Average

Non-Verbal Matrices Evaluating and understanding complicated patterns among abstract designs 14 Above Average

Verbal-Spatial Relations Evaluating and understanding logical grammatical relationships. 10 Average

Figure Memory Supplement Test Visual Memory 10 Average

Attention Ability to selectively attend to stimuli while ignoring other distractions 82 (79-93) 12th Below Average

Expressive Attention Provide the names of pictured colors while ignoring distracting variables 5 Low

Number Detection Identifying numbers that are identical to the target set 9 Average

Successive Ability to hold and recall information in sequential order 94 (87-102) 34th Average

Word Series Repeat a series of single-syllable words 8 Average

Sentence Repetition Repeat a series of nonsense sentences 10 Average

Full Scale Score Overall expected ability **88 (92-97) Interpret with Caution 21st Average


Visual/Motor processing (Sensory Motor):

INDEX
STANDARD SCORE & CLASSIFICATION %ILE
Visual-Motor Integration 74 Low 4th
Visual Perception 93 Average 32nd
Motor Coordination 90 Average 25th
Consistent with previous evaluations, his visual motor integration (sensory motor) skills fall in the low range. This is consistent with his own report and his mother’s report that it is difficult for M. to get his thoughts onto paper and that written expression is a challenge for M. His visual perception and motor coordination skills are age appropriate

Auditory Processing

Subtest Standard/Scaled Score Percentile Rank Normative Classification
Basic Phonological Skills 90 25th Average
Word Discrimination 10 50th Average
Phonological Segmentation 5 5th Low
Phonological Blending 9 37th Average
Auditory Memory 96 39th Average
Number Memory Forward 9 37th Average
Number Memory Reversed 10 50th Average
Word Memory 9 37th Average
Sentence Memory 9 37th Average
Auditory Cohesion 100 50th Average
Auditory Comprehension 11 63rd Average
Auditory Reasoning 9 37th Average
Overall Auditory Processing 95 37th Average

Executive Functioning:



Raters Parent Teacher Teacher
Mother Biology & PE Teacher Spanish Teacher
Inhibit: Controls impulses; appropriately stops own behavior at the proper time 42 48 45

Shift: Moves freely from one situation/activity to another as the situation demands; transitions; solves problems flexibly 72++Clinically Significant 50 45

Emotional Control: Modulates emotional responses appropriately 58 49 45

Behavioral Regulation Index: Overall ability to shift cognitive set and modulate emotions and behavior via appropriate inhibitory control (composite of Inhibit, Shift, and Emotional Control) 57 48 45

Initiate: Begins a task or activity; independently generates ideas 73++Clinically Significant 72++Clinically Significant 43

Working Memory: Holds information in mind for the purpose of completing a task; stays with an activity 63 70++Clinically Significant 43

Plan/Organize: Anticipates future events; sets goals; develop appropriate steps to carry out a task; understands and communicates main ideas or key concepts 63 86++
Clinically Significant 43

Organization of Materials: Keeps workspace, play areas, and materials in an orderly manner 69+Clinically Significant 70++
Clinically Significant 44

Monitor: Checks work; assesses performance during or after finishing a task to ensure attainment of goal; keeps track of the effect of own behavior on others 59 71++
Clinically Significant 42

Metacognition Index: Ability to initiate, plan, organize, and sustain future-oriented problem solving in working memory; cognitively self-manage tasks and monitory own performance (composite of Initiate, Working Memory, Plan/Organize, Organization of Materials, and Monitor) 67+
Clinically Significant 78++
Clinically Significant 42

Global Executive Composite: Summary score that incorporates all eight clinical scales of the BRIEF 65+
Clinically Significant 68+
Clinically Significant 42



I am continued to be told that Math is a strength and comprehension is good but I think according to the above score there are area of weakness. Written expression is definitely an area of weakness. I am trying to think of what we can do as school with a kid who does not want to stand out.

[keepthefaith]

Hi, I am pretty new here but a couple of things jumped out to me - someone here pointed me in this direction and it has helped us:

Basic Phonological Skills 90 25th Average
Word Discrimination 10 50th Average
Phonological Segmentation 5 5th Low
Phonological Blending 9 37th Average

Phonological Segmentation is low and for us, that was high but someone recommended that I have CAPD testing by certified audiologist.  That testing found phonemic awareness of grade 1 for our DD who was in Grade 6 (despite her high test evaluation scores).....That led to tutoring using Orton/Wilson that helped fill in DD's swiss cheese gaps in reading. I am not sure what grade your child is in; ours has had these issues since grade 3 but since they teach site reading, our DD fell further and further behind. If you have poor blending/segmentation skills, that will affect comprehension,particularly as curriculum gets harder. Someone said "by Middle School, you read to learn, not learn to read". So we hired Orton tutor to help with these areas.

Also, we have deficiencies with Written Expression as you have. The earlier you get intervention, the better - I've experienced this and despite all the extra reading programs we paid for, none was as good as Orton method for our DD. I believe the problem with her Written Expression is because of her slow processing and we now know she needs OT evaluation because at age 11, she scored less than 1% on a peg placement test (she is a lefty - not sure why that matters but it's all over every eval).

Good luck - I am too inexperienced to offer much more - the phonemic jumped out at me.

[mykids]

Sorry I failed to mention, he is now in 9th grade. Is CAPD and phonological segmentation related/the same?? I'm sure they are different, just can't think of how right now.
School Psychologist noted in report that visual and verbal memory skills are age appropriate, visual perception & motor coordination skills are appropriate. Phonological skills are age appropriate, auditory processing skills appear age appropriate and there does not appear to be an auditory processing disorder as previously mentioned.

However in regards to phonological skills - wouldn't phonological segmentation be part of that? Is there no longer a disorder because overall auditory processing is average??

[eoffg]

Auditory processing isn't something that can be scored as an average.
It's as absurd as doing a vision test, with high scores for seeing at a distance, but low scores for seeing close up.
Then combining the high and low scores, for an average score.
Then saying that their is no vision disorder, as the scores show vision as average?

Phonological segmentation, is a specific auditory process, that is used to recognize where one phoneme ends, and the next one starts in a word.
This is the primary cause of difficulties with 'phonemic awareness'.

[keepthefaith]

Mar 17, 2014 19:01:21 GMT -5 mykids said:

Sorry I failed to mention, he is now in 9th grade. Is CAPD and phonological segmentation related/the same?? I'm sure they are different, just can't think of how right now.
School Psychologist noted in report that visual and verbal memory skills are age appropriate, visual perception & motor coordination skills are appropriate. Phonological skills are age appropriate, auditory processing skills appear age appropriate and there does not appear to be an auditory processing disorder as previously mentioned.

However in regards to phonological skills - wouldn't phonological segmentation be part of that? Is there no longer a disorder because overall auditory processing is average??

I have to explain in layman's terms.  Someone here noted DD's high scores but asked me if DD ever had a CAPD via a private evaluation.  We went to an audiologist who is certified for CAPD testing.  DD passed all of the tests but for 1 - the Phonemic Synthesis Test where she scored a 13 out of 21 = Grade Level 1.  As explained to me by the Doc, the ability to break words down by their segments was critical for items such as spelling but also for reading fluency and comprehension, etc.  

DD was having these issues reading fluency and comprehension problems.  We didn't know that our District uses Fontas & Pinnell for remediation as well as their reading program grades K-5.  F&P is a site reading program.  For K-5, DD compensated and scored 100's in spelling for words 5 letters or less.  But, she would read a passage and omit words, insert words such as "the" and "and".  As she moved from 3 to 4 to 5 then to 6th grade, the words became harder and her reading became worse, e.g. choppy, not fluent and it affects her comprehension.  We were advised to remediate her with a multi-sensory reading program, i.e. Wilson/orton, to fill in the lack of instruction in phonetics.  The District performed their own tests after I gave them my private eval and disagreed with findings (not suprising).
Like your son, our DD passed school testing (and private testing - WISC4, etc.) but testing to one side, the phonics deficiency is affecting her and the Orton tutor is remediating - all the way back to Grade 2/3 for help to help her skill set in phonics.  

To answer your question, phonological segmentation is 1 of the 9 CAPD tests.   DD doesn't have CAPD but she does have a deficiency in phonics which was and is critical to her ability to access the harder Middle School curriculum.  The only one that can really say your Son doesn't have CAPD is the doctor who administers these specialized tests; I wouldn't trust our District's testing in this .............given the discrepancies we have noted on her private evals.  Like you, DD's overall auditory processing is average but the low score on Phonemic Synthesis testing (1 of the 9 tests CAPD audiolists did) helped us to help her with remediation.

I hope I make sense!
Best wishes!

[keepthefaith]

Your scores:
Reading Comprehension and Fluency score of 75 - below average

I would bet my last dollar that this is because of phonics.........

Written Expression score of 62 - that could be because of low Processing Scores or an LD that affects your son's processing (I am going based on our test scores)

Math Fluency score of 84 - below average

Again, DD is similar due to her ADD inattentive and processing speeds.

Your son's scores for Attention Ability to selectively attend to stimuli while ignoring other distractions
82 Below average - could be CAPD, could be ADHD, could be NVLD which Sharon pointed out to me which led me to CAPD testing.

I can't see a PSI score. Did they test processing speed?

If you get time try to read Sharon's reply to my posts about 2012 and 2014 scores on WISC4 and Wiat III.

Edited to add:   This is misleading statement by your school psychologist:
"Phonological skills are age appropriate, auditory processing skills appear age appropriate and there does not appear to be an auditory processing disorder as previously mentioned.
" - the "appear age appropriate and does not appear to be CAPD" would lead me to test privately for CAPD.  It was covered 100% by Major Medical and total costs was only $200.
Best wishes!

ALSO:  Sharon and many helped me - keep asking questions.  These ladies and men here are very good at helping you find the areas to DIG deeper.

[SharonF]

my kids--

I'm sorry that I just saw your post. I don't jump on MM daily so I miss some posts.

I've looked at the scores you posted and have some thoughts. But if you don't mind, I'd like to approach this from a different direction. Learned that from a wonderful school psych who used to post here regularly.

What is your son having difficulty with in school, other than written expression? Was this a triennial eval because he's already on an IEP? If so, what is his IEP category and what remediation has he received? How long has he been receiving services?

If he does not have an IEP or 504, has he ever been tested before? If he's been tested and denied services, what was the rationale?

Do you think the achievement scores you posted (higher end, mid-range and low) accurately match how your son is performing in all subject areas?

Forgive me for not taking the time to dig through your old posts. I'm sure you've given us this kind of info in the past about your son. Thanks!

[mykids]

Hi SharonF,

Upon initial testing he did not qualify for services, this was way back in elem. grade. After pushing school for further testing, he did qualify and has had an IEP since end of 3rd grade. The testing I posted here was triennial testing, he is now in 9th grade. The IEP category is SLD-written expression, reading fluency, sensory motor skills, visual processing. Previously listed was auditory processing but he tested well in this area where as all previous times testing he did not.

Other than written expression (which his english teacher see's no problems in this area) I would say just overall keeping up in general is what he has trouble with the most right now. There is not a lot of homework assigned, so it's not a hugh problem but I do notice missing assignments as well as assignments and classwork occasionally being marked as excused. I assume as he goes up in grade (currently he is in 9th) classes will become more challenging and homework will increase.

Remediation received? - Lets just say this has been screwed up from the start. Everything I was told would happen did not or did not happen the way it should have. In grade school he went to resource room for about an hour a day. In Jr. High he had directive studies skills class which basically was a place to do homework. They were suppose to have a reading specialist work with him on reading, grammar, spelling but did not happen. If you want I can go into detail but to sum it up everything they did or said they would do they either screwed up or just did not do. I was so frustrated I pulled him out of our district for the last 1 1/2 years of Jr. High. He is now back in our district because the school he was going to closed their high school. (maybe a blessing in disguise)

You asked "do you think the achievement scores you posted (higher end, mid-range and low) accurately match how your son is performing in all subject areas?" I would have to say, I am not sure and am always baffled by what I see in testing scores and what I see in grades/what goes on in classroom. If you look at reading the above scores say basic reading is average and comprehension is below. However, he seems to have good comprehension in his reading. Math score indicates below average and yes he has always struggled with math, needs supports in this area but at the same time I am told math is his strong point. Last year he hit bottom with math (algebra), failed every test, homework was not done correctly. Even after working one on one with resource teacher he was lost. This year complete turn around. He is not getting straight A's and there are time he seems to not get it but doing very well. He is in a gen. ed. class co-taught with special ed teacher and gen ed teacher, in a class that is called a flip class where homework is to watch a video and do a few problems and then the next day in class they discuss and expand on what the video went over. So a lot of discussion in class where students share how they got to their answer. Teachers in this class were so impressed with an explanation he came up with on how to work out an algebra problem that the resource teacher now uses this explanation in teaching students in her special ed. class.

All other subjects he does ok in ranges from C-A grades. When observed in class, I am told there is nothing that sets him apart from other students. I am often told he does better than a lot of other students.
We have had the IEP meeting - what was proposed was a directive studies skills class. I asked if they could tell me for sure that this class would not turn into a do your homework class and they could not because apparently it is up to the individual teacher how the class will be run. My son does not want to take another class like this. The draft IEP goals are the same as they were back in 2008 and 2011.

This probably should go into another thread but, Right now I am very concerned with his mental state in such that He does not believe school will help him. He continues to say he can not concentrate in class but teachers say he does. He did a self test (conner's 3) where he rated himself very elevated in the areas of inattention and learning problems and stated he "very often feels he can't do things right". Even though his grades are relatively good he does not believe they are and is not happy they are not better. I complemented him on a test he took where he only missed 2 questions and he said it was not good enough, someone else in his class got 100% and that's what he should have gotten as well. The report indicates at risk concerns in areas of anxiety, depression and attention but says is not significantly impacting functioning at this time. Also at risk but not significantly impacting function are, sense of inadequacy, somatization and internalizing problems, test anxiety. There are more concerns in the report but not sure I should get further into this right now. He has been meeting with the school psychologist who suggest if he is open to having him see someone out side of school setting that he can talk with about his frustrations.

So I think when making a decision on what to do next year we need to keep in mind how it will affect him in how he feels about himself. Please do not take this next comment wrong, all kids bother him, he does not think any of the other kids try and want to do good, he does not like being around kids a lot and does not partake in after school functions because he can not tolerate kids for that long. With that said, Do we place him in a class he has no faith in, where the kids will bother him and because it is a special ed class that will bother him, in hopes of getting a teacher who will actually help him with writing, grammar, spelling, punctuation etc... OR do we put him in gen ed. and let things be, (where kids will also bother him) knowing he is not getting the help with writing that he needs. Or do we place him in more advanced classes where we hope kids are more mature (at least for science & history type classes) Also I have brought up him taking AVID - but there are concerns with writing and a lot of writing done in this class. I think academically writing is the main concern. I am very concerned with how he feels about himself, his environment, other students, school, and teachers.

Sorry this was so long, I am very lost in all this and hope what I wrote makes some sense and answered all your questions.
SharonF- there is no need for you to apologize, I know we all have stuff going on. I always appreciate the help I can get here. I rarely post on others because I don't feel I fully understand the needs of our children when it comes to this.

[SharonF]

Mykids--

As I read your post, my eyes filled with tears. My dear, I have BEEN THERE!!!

Here's what I read between the lines in your post: the only consistency in his academic performance appears to be inconsistency. He sometimes has the knowledge and skills, but doesn't always know how to use them. Sometimes, he is lacking SOMETHING he needs to do well, but even his teachers aren't sure what might be lacking.

Even when he does do well on a homework assignment or test, he is less than satisfied. He has struggled for so long with a sense of inadequacy and feeling different, that he doesn't even know what adequate or "fitting in" might feel like. He automatically assumes he falls short and doesn't fit in with peers. He is withdrawing from all of those sources of hurt. And who can blame him?

What does he do in his free time? Are there any activities, even solitary ones, that he enjoys? Has he tried hobbies such as photography, hiking, fishing, teaching himself how to play the guitar--or something that he can just do when he wants, without involving anyone else? Something worthwhile that gives him an escape from homework and a sense of satisfaction?

Did you see any significant changes (for better or worse) when he went to 9th grade? Especially if he is now in a new district? I assume he went to high school in 9th grade, after being in middle school for several years previous, right?

Any transition can be hard, even for neurotyps or kids staying in the same district. Kids with learning issues often struggle even more with transitions. For some, it's the transition to middle school that pulls the rug out from under them, academically. For others, it's the transition to high school.

It's not just that the new school is larger or that there are more kids they don't know. Teachers' attitudes can be so different. Many elementary school teachers are nurturers. Many middle school teachers act just the opposite, like they're a drill instructor at military boot camp. And sometimes, teachers who say "I'm gonna be hard on the kids because it's good for them" don't come along until high school.

For kids who learn differently, that sudden shift in attitude and atmosphere can be traumatic. For example, my dd is VERY conscientious. She was in plenty of inclusion classes in high school. Some teachers made harsh, threatening statements in hopes of motivating the kids who didn't really care about school. The result: the kids who didn't care to begin with cared even less, because they felt so hopeless and beaten down. And hard-working kids like my dd became very anxious and even panicky about whether they could meet the teachers' expectations. It wasn't what the teachers said--it was HOW they said it. End result: the teachers' attempts to motivate students backfired with just about every kid in the class.

Here's my advice. Keep the IEP. SLD can be pretty narrow, so make sure his executive function issues are adequately described in the document. This document should be your baseline, especially if you need to remind teachers that he has documented learning issues.

Avoid classes that are dumping grounds for the kids no one wants to teach. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's what we experienced when my two kids were in high school. Inclusion can sound good. But in reality, Inclusion was often a place for schools to put certain kids (IEP, 504 or not) who were too slow or too disruptive. The Inclusion setting did not provide any real help for their LDs or behavior issues. Instead, I think it was an easy way to keep the riff-raff away from the "good" kids who were easy to teach. AAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!

Don't hope your son will somehow get a teacher who can and will help with his unique needs as required by federal law. There are some great teachers in this word! But many are burdened by too many kids who have too many unique needs. And there are plenty of not-so-great teachers who have just stopped trying to reach kids like your son or my two.

Hire a private tutor who understands kids who learn differently. Preferably, not a tutor in a store-front chain who claims to be able to help every kid from future Rhodes scholars to kids who are failing. Look for a tutor who knows, understands and loves to work with kids who need 1:1.

That tutor should be able to help your son with everything: homework in all subjects, research papers and other special projects, remediation in any areas of weakness or softer skills, and just listening!! If your son has problems with organizing his thoughts or his stuff, the tutor should be willing to help him develop strategies for managing his time, thoughts and stuff. Over time, he/she should be able to help him identify study strategies that work best for him. (Flash cards? Talking it out? Watching videos about it on YouTube? More hands on?) Your son may resent having to go to a tutor. But over time, he will probably realize the benefits. My kids did.

Like you, I'm most concerned about your son's emotional state. Teenage years are hard enough. He is carrying a lot of hurt, frustration and sense of inadequacy. Not because of anything you did or didn't do. But because he's been marginalized by the educational system and the SpEd system. His skills and abilities fall into that gray area of too good for most SpEd placements and cookie-cutter SpEd services, but not consistently strong enough for success in gen-ed classes or above.

Counseling is one option to help him gain emotional equilibrium. My kids definitely benefited from going to a therapist who specialized in young people and had extensive experience with LD kids. But they were in middle school at the time, so it was easier to force them to go. Even then, my son refused to talk to her at first. So she had him play music on a xylophone-type instrument. And unbelievably, she could "read" his emotions and his needs from what he played. Before long, he started talking to her. Then ds was asking me when his next appointment was. He would say he needed his "Vicki fix."

That therapist also helped my dd with issues that went beyond academics, but affected dd, such as body image and extreme shyness.

Another option for your son's anxiety and possible depression is to try the weekly tutoring as support in all subject areas. See if, in time, he builds his skills and, in turn, his confidence.

Has he been evaluated for ADHD-inattentive type? I don't think ADHD is the main reason for his difficulties. But it may be an underlying factor. For my dd, going on ADHD meds was important part of addressing her unusual mix of learning issues. And while the doctors decided my son does not have ADHD, he and I both have concluded that we think he does. But his type fits Sluggish Cognitive Tempo, which is not an officially recognized type of ADHD in the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual.

mykids--my heart goes out to you. Unless you have a very special high school with a proven approach to meeting the unique needs of kids like your son, my advice is keep the IEP but don't expect much from it. Placement alone will not be the answer for your son. Pay for private academic support/tutoring to achieve the real progress your son is capable of. And consider a private counselor/therapist to help restore his sense of self-worth and to help him set reasonable expectations for himself.

Good luck!