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Post by wch on Oct 7, 2010 12:47:59 GMT -5
Just curious - how well or how does the CELF-4 screen for CAPD? Which subtests are typically used?
And...what does it mean when a child's receptive language score is lower than his expressive language score? My son has an 11 point difference between the two indexes; he is still within the average ranges, however. While it's not a significant difference, I have read that it is unusual to have a receptive score lower than an expressive score. And when you look at my son's Expressive/Receptive One Word Picture Vocab Tests (EOWPVT/ROWPVT), there is quite a difference between the Receptive Language Scores and the ROWPVT score.
Receptive Lang Index Scores: 92 (30th%)
Concepts and Directions 8 (25th%)
Word Classes/Responses 9 (37th%)
Sentence Structure 9 (37th%)
Expressive Language Score: 103 (58th%)
Recalling Sentences 9 (37th%)
Formulated Sentences 10 (50th%)
Word Structure 13 (84th%)
ROWPVT: 117 (87th%)
EOWPVT: 116 (86th%)
There's a 25 point difference between his ROWPVT and his Receptive Language Score. Does this mean anything? (I'm not even sure if you can compare these two tests) I was told there were no red flags, so CAPD testing is not warranted.
Is empeg or anyone else with experience in these areas around?
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Post by fc11 on Oct 7, 2010 13:36:06 GMT -5
I don't know how to explain CELF-4, but I think CAPD is covered by insurance, you may want to check it out. However, based on my experience, I do not prefer a hospital to evaluate my kid, as the hospital's recommendation is quite general.
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Post by wch on Oct 7, 2010 13:54:39 GMT -5
Good to know. I called an "Ear Institute" today and they referred me to a Children's Hospital.
My insurance company said they cover it, but when the lady asked me why I wanted to do the testing, I fumbled around and she said that if it has anything to do w/education, they won't cover it. She said it depends on how the provider codes it. Wondering how to get around this. (Legally, of course)
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Post by hsmom on Oct 7, 2010 15:59:33 GMT -5
My understanding is that an audiologist should be evaluating for CAPD. Here are links to Jeanane Ferre's, a well-known audiologist, website, and information she gives about CAP and evaluating CAP. . dr-ferre.com/index.htmlwww.ocslha.com/Ferre.htm |
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Post by bros on Oct 7, 2010 16:17:32 GMT -5
Good to know. I called an "Ear Institute" today and they referred me to a Children's Hospital. My insurance company said they cover it, but when the lady asked me why I wanted to do the testing, I fumbled around and she said that if it has anything to do w/education, they won't cover it. She said it depends on how the provider codes it. Wondering how to get around this. (Legally, of course) Tell the doctor and they tend to code it properly. i.e. my neuropsychologist, in order to get the testing paid for, marked it down as testing to determine how my seizures have affected me. |
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 7, 2010 16:31:46 GMT -5
My son had the SCAN-C to rule out CAPD done by an audiologist at a local children's hospital, and it was covered by insurance. It seems like they coded it as part of hearing testing, and not as an educational screening. (Just like a doctor's evaluation for ADHD diagnosis isn't considered an educational exam, even though the results can have educational impact.)
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Post by fc11 on Oct 7, 2010 17:55:52 GMT -5
In my case, I discussed with the ped on whether my kid had ADHD, the CAPD was used to rule out ADHD. She was very specific in the code though.
I hope you have a record when they said there was no red flag, if not, write a simple letter stating the same (not telling them that you plan to do an eval). I had them said it three times, before I showed them the result, it became easy to show their eval was inacurate and incomplete.
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 7, 2010 18:01:20 GMT -5
fc11, I've never heard of CAPD being used to rule out ADHD. They are two different conditions, although some of the behaviors seen can overlap. It is important to realize that children CAN have BOTH ADHD AND CAPD.
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Post by wch on Oct 7, 2010 19:29:35 GMT -5
healthy and fc11, you're both right. ADHD and APD travel separately and together, and there is a portion of the APD battery that can differentiate ADHD from APD. (The Selective Auditory Attention Test SAAT) I'm interested in exploring this area as there is quite a bit of overlap between the two disorders and sometimes I question the ADD diagnosis. Sometimes.  |
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Post by fc11 on Oct 7, 2010 21:04:15 GMT -5
healthy11,
You may be right. The discussion was a long time ago. My sd/teachers always complained DD was easily distracted and hinted ADD or ADHD. At the same time, a few months prior, one teacher suggested CAPD when I told them DD wasn't learning too much from class. Hence, I asked them about CAPD, the case manager who was also the district evaluator told me that there was no red flag and DD did not have CAPD.
I discussed with the ped, she immediately ruled out ADHD based on everything that the SD wrote, I asked her about CAPD, she wrote the prescription to rule out something, I thought it was ADHD, but probably it was for CAPD.
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Post by majorv on Oct 7, 2010 22:28:04 GMT -5
I believe there are several different screening tests available for CAPD. My son has ADHD and was having difficulty following verbal lectures in class, especially if there were no visuals accompanying it. He was screened with the Goldman Fristoe Test of Auditory Discrimination and it came back normal. Both the private SLP who tested him and the school SLP felt that his receptive language deficit (64 on the CELF-4) was more due to his attention deficit...it affected his auditory processing and memory.
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Post by empeg1 on Oct 7, 2010 22:47:20 GMT -5
The ROWVT looks comprehension of single word vocabulary, period. The CELF looks at grammar, comprehension of concepts embedded in language and categorization skills. The Word Classes also taps in to short term memory not just conceptual understanding. The Concepts and Directions subtest also involves attention as well as short term memory, along with understanding of concepts. So a lowered score on subtests of the CELF can be due to multiple reasons, which is why scores alone do not tell the story. One needs to look at a pattern of behavior shown on test responses to add to the scores.
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 7, 2010 23:25:46 GMT -5
My point was that no CAPD test I've ever heard of can rule out ADHD. I just wanted to be sure people who read this discussion aren't misled. Just because a child is shown to have CAPD doesn't mean they can't also have ADHD. Some kids with CAPD do, some don't. If a child is not shown to have CAPD, doesn't mean they can't have ADHD, either.
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Post by empeg1 on Oct 8, 2010 0:20:04 GMT -5
They are different disorders, which can occur separately or can be co-morbid.
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Post by fc11 on Oct 8, 2010 3:07:24 GMT -5
My point was that no CAPD test I've ever heard of can rule out ADHD. I just wanted to be sure people who read this discussion aren't misled. Just because a child is shown to have CAPD doesn't mean they can't also have ADHD. Some kids with CAPD do, some don't. If a child is not shown to have CAPD, doesn't mean they can't have ADHD, either. I agreed. I think at that point of discussion with my ped, she already ruled out ADHD (the first thing she told me after reviewing all of DD's school eval), hence she wanted to rule out CAPD as well. |
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Post by wch on Oct 11, 2010 13:17:06 GMT -5
Still not sure....
If there was an underlying APD, would you typically see red flags on the CELF-4?
Thanks
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Post by healthy11 on Oct 11, 2010 13:42:15 GMT -5
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Post by dihicks6 on Oct 11, 2010 13:47:31 GMT -5
You can disagree and request the IEE for CAPD evaluation.
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Post by wch on Oct 11, 2010 23:49:57 GMT -5
thank you. I have read that SLP's reply before. I might write and ask her about the receptive/expressive thing.
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Post by SharonF on Oct 14, 2010 11:57:32 GMT -5
wch---
By itself, the CELF does not prove or disprove CAPD. But many people with auditory processing difficulties also have language processing difficulties. If a person *does* have CAPD, the CELF may help show how CAPD may be affecting their ability to learn and show mastery.
I've read lots of research on the chicken/egg aspects of auditory and language processing difficulties. Does auditory processing disorder cause language processing problems? Or if a person's brain is hardwired to struggle with language processing (some types of dyslexia,) does that usually show up as auditory processing problems? Lots of experts. Lots of opinions. I haven't really found a single accurate answer.
While this was not your question, my kids are proof that CAPD and ADHD-inattentive can look very much alike and are often comorbid. My dd's developmental audiologist told me most kids who are originally diagnosed with ADHD do NOT have CAPD. But most kids who are originally diagnosed with CAPD are later found to also have ADHD-inattentive type.
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