A new parent posted on LDOnline: "Child was evaluated using WRIT, Verbal IQ 80, Visual 122, General 100 and diagnosised with ADHD at the age of 5. Professional testing expressed concerns with there being 42 point split and language. Child having difficulty in all academics at that time. Recently evaluated using WISC IV Verbal Comprehension 89, Perceptual reasoning 88, working memory 86, processing speed 85 Full Scale 84. UNIT showed Full Scale 108. When comaring WISC IV to academic no areas of concern, but when using UNIT math, and reading concern. Greatest discrepancy was 22 for math reasoning. I am concerned about the verbal vs nonverbal results. Is this okay? Should I be concerned?"
"First I would like to say thanks for your responses. I have downloaded the article that was suggested.
Here is a list of the subtests. Subtests for the WRIT where Visual IQ 122, Verbal IQ 80, General IQ 100: Verbal Analogies 72, Vocabulary 91, Matrices 112, Diamonds 124
WISC IV Scores for my child were: Ful Scale 84, Verbal Comprehension 89; Smiliarities 6, Vocabulary 8, Comprehension 10; Working Memory 86, Digit Span 9, Letter-Number Sequences 6; Perceptual Reasoning 88, Block Design 13, Picture Concepts 4, Matrix Reasoning 7; Processing Speed 84, Coding 11, Symbol Search 4
UNIT Full Scale 108 Memory 102, Reasoning 112, Symbolic 100, Nonsymbolic 114"
I'm not familiar with the WRIT and can't comment on it... As far as the WISC-IV, you can share this: The VCI's subtests are as follows: · Vocabulary - straightforward questions over the meaning of words · Similarities - asking how two concepts are alike · Comprehension - questions about social situations or common concepts · Information (supplemental) - general knowledge questions · Word Reasoning (supplemental) - children are presented with one to three riddle-style clues and asked to determine what the tester is describing. The PRI's subtests are as follows: · Block Design - children put together red-and-white blocks in a pattern according to a displayed model. This is timed, and some of the more difficult puzzles award bonuses for speed. · Picture Concepts - children are shown rows of pictures, and are asked to find a common bond with one picture in each row. · Matrix Reasoning - children are shown an array of pictures with one missing square, and select the picture that fits the array from five options. · Picture Completion (supplemental) - children are shown artwork of common objects with a missing part, and asked to identify the missing part by pointing and/or naming. The WMI's subtests are as follows: · Digit Span - children are orally given sequences of numbers and asked to repeat them, either as heard or in reverse order. · Letter-Number Sequencing - children are orally given sequences of letters and numbers together, and asked to repeat them in both numerical order and alphabetical order.
I'm wondering the age of the child and if he speaks English as a native language? Clearly, from the block design score, the child has visual-spatial strenghts (tell the parent to see but I'm wondering if the low score in Picture Concepts is due to a language problem again. (For example, if a child is shown photos of things like a cat, a dog, a giraffe, and a mouse, and asked to identify what they all have in common, maybe the child can't think of words to say "they're all animals" or "they all have 4 legs")
"Courage is not the lack of fear, it is acting in spite of it."
"Count your age by friends, not years. Count your life by smiles, not tears." ― John Lennon
Here is a message that I posted on another site and I was wondering if anyone could give me insight? "Regarding posting previously: child in Kindergarten who is English speaker only was stated to have difficulty with all academic areas, difficulty with focusing, completeting assignments, disorganization with writing, crying alot during school, low self esteem,difficulty with following directions, and notes regarding behavior sent home daily. Child stayed on at the same reading level for most of the year. Not to mention that our child loves to please others. We had him tested independently because of schools concerns as well as our concerns. He being my first did not really see anything that really stuck out to me at first. He was born with a Club Foot and in a cast and split for the 1st years of life. Yes, this did have some impact on some of motor skills such as standing, and walking. During Kindergarten, Rating scales were done along with WRIT and WRAT. At this time, he was diagnosised as ADHD. Noted that language learning disability may be an issue and math a concern. He received tutoring through the summer and during the school year for reading. This year he stayed at the same reading level, but then to gradually increase. With concerns about his processing, academics, language concerns asked for testing. (Child is mimicing what he says, and uses alot of hum,hum,....reasking questions as if he does not understand the answers that have been given him, takes things literally, confuses nonverbal cues, some sentsivity to noises (whistles, horns). In class, he trys to blend in and not call attention to himself. We found out that he was doing alot of copying in class, and we had a talk with him. Speech evaluation were completed with WISC IV, UNIT, WJIII. Speech results: CASL Core Composite Score 71, Basic Concepts 93, Sentence Complete 90, Syntaz Construction 85, Paragraph Compre 95, Antonyms 50, Pragmatic Judgment 75, EVT 88, TOPL-2 88. Evaluator noted to at times that it appeared that he did not understand what was being asked, prolonged stares into space. WJIII showed scores to be in basic reading 112, reading comp 98, math cal 88, math reasoning 86, written expression 100. Math fluency 75, quatitative concepts 83, reading vocabulary 88, writing fluency 85 were the lowest subtests. All others were 90 or greater. Evaluators did not feel that there was a concern. However, I am trying to figure out if I need to be concerned with the split in verbal and nonverbal IQ's. Other motor skills, he does easily lose things, still can't tie is shoes, some difficulty with buttons, snaps, he writes big (I think this is normal for his age), cuts okay, continues to be be followed for his foot and leg. He runs and plays like most kids, but is clumpsy at times. However, he was tested for motor skills. I continue to have concerns about speech-language (playing by self, at times withdrawn, concerns as stated above with mimicing what he has stated with his mouth, requestioning after he asks a question, taking things literally, and etc.) as well as the fact that he is having difficulty with calendar concepts, number concepts. I am trying to figure out if there is real reason's for my concerns. I feel that with all the things in place for him that he might not be as successful as he is if these things were not in place. Should I be concerned about the verbal and nonverbal split? Should I be concerned about motor skills?"
There are a lot of red flags in what you say. I imagine the school is using the WISC sign to tell you your kid is right on track with his abilities, but the truth is that there are signs you should not ignore, and particularly given that there is a discrepancy of 20 between WISC and UNIT.
The split between WISC and UNIT as well as some very low scores in the CASL should be sources of concerns, as well as the fact that your son sometimes does not seem to understand or mimic what he says, seem to indicate language issues.
Is he receiving speech/language services? Has he been tested for hearing and CAPD. Has he been evaluated for spectrum disorders or any other disabilities that have language issues as one of their signs. I am not suggesting he has any of those, but it may be worth eliminating all that.
Does he have an IEP? If yes, what services does he receive.
It is harder to say for motor skills. I imagine he is followed by an orthopedist for his foot. What does the orthopedist say?
Last Edit: Apr 6, 2010 4:35:34 GMT -5 by momfromma
My son does not receive any services. The one set of Evaluators felt that it was not needed. Speech stated that he did not qualify based on what information was discussed. I had not ever really thought of his club foot having anything to do with what was going on, so I have not spoke to orthopedic doctor. He has never been evaluated except for determination of LD, looking at Other Health Impaired, and his ADHD. This testing of course included the speech-language. I am still concerned, and did not know if I was thinking more into it than I should. However, I feel that if I did not look at every aspect and missed something that could offer us ways to better help him I am not sure that I could forgive myself. I just want to make sure that I am doing what is best for my child. He is showing more and more signs of being frustrated with homework and tutoring. He is only in 1st grade. I would not think it should be this way.
I do not see ASD/Aspergers in this description, particularly the description of his desire to please. I see a kid who does not understand what is being asked of him verbally......that could be global language delays (speech/language impaired by definition) or Central Auditory Processing Disorder.
That said, MANY red flags with these score splits. The CASL of 71 is concerning. If I am understanding that score correctly, I would call that the 3rd percentile.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone ----Henry David Thoreau
Coby please know, a child on the spectrum can have a desire to please. I have two of them that want to please. And I see the red flags. BTW ADHD and Aspergers can look alot alike. It's commen for a child to be mis-dx'd when there young.
>please know, a child on the spectrum can have a desire to please. I have two of them that want to please. And I see the red flags. BTW ADHD and Aspergers can look alot alike. It's commen for a child to be mis-dx'd when there young< Very true!
"It is no use saying we are doing our best. You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary." (Winston Churchill)
No your right it does, but there's other things that bother me, like the repeating his words, the part about being withdrawn, the hum hum noise he's making, the motor issue's, the sensory issue's - says there's something else going on besides ADHD and CAPD (which can also be included in the larger dx of Aspergers.
Anyway please please note momaof3, I am not a doctor and am not trying to dx anything. I'm just saying it might be best to read up on the subject (and get it evaluated to rule it in or out) because thats something you wouldn't want to miss for him.
And I would definetly think about getting another opinion on the motor issue's. My kids school OT did a crappy job of testing my kids and only until I got a private report did the real things show up.
My dd is a CAPD kid. She did not repeat and mouth phrasing, but i could see how that might be this child's way of coping OR an indication of a spectrum problem. My daughter had sensory issues related to her CAPD, particularly a panic reaction to loud noises. She also had some gross motor skill issues, but no fine motor skill problems.
Definitely hard to say, except that I think we all agree that this description has many, many red flags that momaof3 should follow through to a firm diagnosis.
I wish her the best of luck. A better evaluation either way is definitely in order.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone ----Henry David Thoreau